VT Staff Newsletter comment on WSMR

[merlodlliw]

VT on WSMR http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1102c.htm

Here's an extract from the Virgin Trains staff newsletter:

Virgin Trains came to the rescue of passengers left stranded when Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway (WSMR) ceased operations on Friday 28 January, less than three years after launching in April 2008. WSMR ticket-holders have been able to use Virgin Trains services ... Virgin Trains' CEO Tony Collins said: 'WSMR began its service by demanding monopoly access to the Wrexham to London market and twice tried to stop other operators competing. Competition should not allow overseas giants such as Deutsche Bahn to dip their corporate toes in the UK market and withdraw at short notice.'

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

........................................................................................................
So will VT stay in Wrexham with its one a day,time will tell in my opinion.
I agree with Tony Collins about DB.
Bob

 

[WillPS]

I'd much rather have "overseas giants such as Deutsche Bahn" than a company founded on pie-in-the-sky waste of time ideas which will never get regulatory approval.

In fact, I have more faith in DB than any of the other franchisees.

 

[gordonthemoron]

#1 - DB didn't start WSMR, it was already in existence when DB took over
#2 - the monopoly operator is Virgin

 

[LexyBoy]

Good to see VT welcomes competition then!

 

[me123]

Virgin's being a bit rich going on about another company "demanding monopoly operation" and "stopping other companies competing"...

 

[FrozenPoints]

#1 - DB didn't start WSMR, it was already in existence when DB took over
#2 - the monopoly operator is Virgin

Good to see VT welcomes competition then!

Virgin's being a bit rich going on about another company "demanding monopoly operation" and "stopping other companies competing"...

Hang on, don't harange Virgin Trains over 'Moderation of Competition' which is essentially what it is all about, being the principle operator of the WCML.

This all lies at the door of the DfT.

 

[WestCoast]

Virgin sound quite bitter, to me they sound quite resentful and slightly jealous of DB! :roll:

If they lose WCML to DB, I can imagine the response

 

[gordonthemoron]

what would a pendolino look like in ICE livery?

 

[Eng274]

That is very rich of Virgin to claim WSMR tried to "stop others competing" on their route when virgin themselves pull out the stops to ensure nobody directly competes with them on their routes.

Virgin had no interest in wrexham whatsoever before WSMR came along, now that WSMR have folded (and there's a route ripe for the taking which they have spent the money marketing and developing and creating demand) along come virgin who are now all of a sudden interested in serving wrexham!

 

[WestCoast]

what would a pendolino look like in ICE livery?

Closest to the IC Swallow.... http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p32161687.html

 

[gordonthemoron]

#10, that looks quite nice

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Virgin are very bitter over this, they appear to think they are the best and most important TOC going, if you dare set foot on their turf, god help you. If they did it, like Wrexham, all of a sudden its OK.

 

[tbtc]

Anyone who expects the Virgin Trains staff newsletter to praise a "competing" TOC is a little naive... I presume this thread is just to rehash the arguments we had a few weeks ago?

 

[WillPS]

Anyone who expects the Virgin Trains staff newsletter to praise a "competing" TOC is a little naive... I presume this thread is just to rehash the arguments we had a few weeks ago?

They need not have said anything, though.

 

[185]

They really are guttertrash. Roll on 2012 when they'll screaming insults at the DfT when they don't get their way

 

[TDK]

Anyone who expects the Virgin Trains staff newsletter to praise a "competing" TOC is a little naive... I presume this thread is just to rehash the arguments we had a few weeks ago?

Firstly WSMR were not a TOC, VT announced their Wrexham run before DB took over WSMR, the Dft ordered VT to protect their profits and this is what they did. This is down to the Dft and not VT, VT need to try and dirty DB waters as they did with the ad at Leamington "Chiltern Snailways" VT are very close at loosing the WC franchise and they know it, this is obviously propaganda in it's most indirect form, WSMR were never a threat to VT and it was only when DB took over VT announces the Shrewsbury London run and ATW jumped on the band wagon to only be taken over by DB anyway, it looks like the Dft, VT and ATW all got their way eventually.

 

[SS4]

Virgin honouring advance tickets from WSMR was a good PR move but they stuck their proverbial foot in it. Forget DB, any company wants profit.
It goes without saying that both this site and the link you posted are pro WSMR, who's to say they [WSMR] didn't want to moderate competition on what is a unique route.

The upshot is now that VT are interested in Wrexham which they weren't before

 

[Failed Unit]

Yep - vt would have left rail a long time ago if PUG2 had not failed to happen, now the can enjoy the compensation. Hence why DFT don't want to extend, the franchise is costing us too much money!

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of WSMR's demise and VT's response to it, the cynic in me does wonder just how much longer Virgin's token Wrexham - London service will survive.

Does anyone ever travel on it and know how well it loads?

 

[1V53]

Firstly WSMR were not a TOC

If they weren't a train operating company (TOC) then what were they?

All this about Virgin only being interested in Wrexham since WSMR's demise.... Actually no, Virgin came in an set up their Wrexham-London service AFTER WSMR did. As others have said, it will be interesting to see how long they remain.

Also ATW did not win re WSMR. ATW wanted an Aberystwyth to London service and were blocked as the rail regulator saw no need for another Shrewsbury-London service. This despite a large number of people from mid Wales travelling to London and having to change. ATW didn't get their London service and subsequently WSMR were pulled having made losses. Although I agree that the WSMR demise was very strange, ATW do not have their London service so did not get their own way.

 

[Clip]

If they weren't a train operating company (TOC) then what were they?

All this about Virgin only being interested in Wrexham since WSMR's demise.... Actually no, Virgin came in an set up their Wrexham-London service AFTER WSMR did. As others have said, it will be interesting to see how long they remain.

.

They were an open access operator.

 

[sprinterguy]

Whilst not a TOC in the strict meaning of the phrase that is widely accepted (Referring to the franchised operators), WSMR were nonetheless a company, that operated trains. Or, to put it another way, a train operating company. In the broad but accurate sense of the phrase, of course.

 

[merlodlliw]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of WSMR's demise and VT's response to it, the cynic in me does wonder just how much longer Virgin's token Wrexham - London service will survive.

Does anyone ever travel on it and know how well it loads?

Perhaps being local ,I may assist as I started the thread.

Virgin came into Wrexham due to ATW giving up two passenger paths,its own decision.
ATW terminated the 0610 Shrewsbury DMU at Wrexham at 0649 for the 0700 VT service to Chester & London, this 0700 service is predominately used as a local to Chester for onwards travel to Manchester & other destinations for work. The DMU is then used on the line to Bidston.

The return path sees ATW run a service to Shrewsbury ex Wrexham 2049 for passengers off the 1810 ex Euston, again this is predominately
used as a local from Chester using the VT ex Chester 2022,again the DMU is off the Bidston line. Problems occur when the VT is late into Wrexham,many a time passengers have been stranded, due to the ATW DMU leaving on time.

So had it not been for ATW giving up the paths, VT would not be in Wrexham, for how long it remains I dont know.

An interesting factor in this ATW/VT collusion, is if VT leaves Wrexham,who will service the two paths given up by ATW, a train as to be run as its in the franchise, this may well come back to haunt both of them.

As for London loadings,the majority pick it up at Chester, there is a big commuter belt between Wrexham & Chester (Rossett/Pulford/Kinnerton etc)

Bob

 

[TDK]

If they weren't a train operating company (TOC) then what were they?

All this about Virgin only being interested in Wrexham since WSMR's demise.... Actually no, Virgin came in an set up their Wrexham-London service AFTER WSMR did. As others have said, it will be interesting to see how long they remain.

Also ATW did not win re WSMR. ATW wanted an Aberystwyth to London service and were blocked as the rail regulator saw no need for another Shrewsbury-London service. This despite a large number of people from mid Wales travelling to London and having to change. ATW didn't get their London service and subsequently WSMR were pulled having made losses. Although I agree that the WSMR demise was very strange, ATW do not have their London service so did not get their own way.

WSMR were an open access company and not a member of ATOC, so therefore not a TOC, no franchise - The ORR stopped the Aber London bid as ATW's figures on their business plan did not add up causing very red faces in Cardiff. Surely with a user name like 1V53 (I have worked that before many times) I though you would have been more up on the Gen from ATW! and the reasons why the bid failed.

 

[1V53]

Semantics but WSMR were by definition a TOC (Train Operating Company) but you are correct in saying they were not a member of the ATOC (I don't think anyone has stated otherwise). I'm sure you are aware that coalface staff don't actually get involved in the bidding process, on this occasion we had to rely on the information the company chose to give us, which was not the same as your version. That is not to say your version is incorrect - I don't know your source.

 

[merlodlliw]

TDK is correct, the ORR through out ATWs bid, due to fudging of figures, there were indeed red faces in Cardiff, when the main Arriva board hauled Cardiff Senior Management in for an explanation, The rail Minister was also openly furious when he found out ATW had supplied fudged figures to the ORR in their business plan.
On my behalf my A.M Mark Isherwood asked the Minister about ATW using The Wales & Borders franchise stock for open access, I have a copy of the Ministers reply,sent after the ORR refusal, in which he also states the ORR decision was due to incorrect data in the application,
The ORR response is on the web for all to see, that is the source.


Bob

 

[1V53]

Thanks Bob