Voiding Advances

[Alteran Ancient]

Hey there - just a quick one for you. More curiosity than anything else.

A few weeks ago, I bought an Advance for WAT to BMH with my YP Railcard. When I was asking for it at the TO, I quite clearly asked for a "First Class Advance fare on the Umpteenth of Derptember from Waterloo to Bournemouth at XX:XX". I quite promptly was told the price, paid, was given the tickets (in a rather nice wallet, mind you), and started to walk away.

On my way out, I took a look inside the wallet and spotted "STD" on the tickets rather than "1ST" and immediately did a u-turn back to the ticket office. When I spoke to the woman behind the desk, she said "What? You didn't ask for first class!", followed by a firm-but-polite back and forth of "I think you'll find that I did ask for first class", with a "no you didn't" attitude.

She then tried to tell me that she'd already issued the tickets and that she couldn't change them, to which I responded with "You issued them within the last 15 minutes, so I do believe you can void them and charge me the difference" - which she did so, reluctantly.

Can you tell me if I am indeed right that there is a 15 minute window to void erroneous purchases, or if there is some kind of fee levied against the TOC for any reversals or refunds and that the sales assistant only agreed to change my tickets because she may have indeed not heard me correctly?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can certainly do a "non-issue" of any ticket at the ticket office where it is issued (and often any ticket office of that TOC), and it doesn't have to be with 15 minutes.

On one occasion I travelled Bletchley-Slough but forgot that on that occasion I wanted to go to Windsor, so on arrival at Euston (some 45 minutes to an hour after the initial purchase) went to the LM ticket office and asked for an overdistance excess at zero fare. The clerk decided it was easier to non-issue the original ticket (despite it having been used) and issue a replacement, presumably because of the traditional issues with having to explain the issue of zero-fare excesses.

FWIW, most TOCs don't charge the admin fee for upgrading Advances from Standard to First with nothing else about the journey having changed, just fare difference, so they could have done that if they didn't want to non-issue it. XC is the exception I believe (which is ironic, as they are proposing to (or may already have) remove(d) the admin fee for Advance changes altogether now!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OTOH, it is my experience that several of the Watford Junction ticket office staff (not all of them - I think one of the helpful ones posts here) are incredibly lazy and unhelpful and don't like doing anything other than selling returns to London and Travelcards.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Can you tell me if I am indeed right that there is a 15 minute window to void erroneous purchases, or if there is some kind of fee levied against the TOC for any reversals or refunds and that the sales assistant only agreed to change my tickets because she may have indeed not heard me correctly?

Varies by TOC, but there is a period in which a ticket can be cancelled. However, there is no obligation for a ticket office clerk to do it if you have received what you asked for. You should check your ticket before leaving the ticket window and if you believe a mistake has been made, correct it then. That said, I probably would have changed it without fuss in most cases if you hadn't gone far.

You can certainly do a "non-issue" of any ticket at the ticket office where it is issued (and often any ticket office of that TOC), and it doesn't have to be with 15 minutes....

There is a time period to do it in, though it is not always 15 minutes. It wouldn't stop a clerk non-issuing outside of that period though.

 

[maniacmartin]

"First Class Advance fare on the Umpteenth of Derptember from Waterloo to Bournemouth at XX:XX"

I find that giving all the details all at once is more likely to cause something to be overlooked.

Nowadays I tell the clerk the date, let them key it in, tell them the origin and destination, let them key it in, and then say the ticket type I want. There's less chance of a mis-issue that way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or just book it online.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Gareth Marston]

Or just book it online.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Imagine all the user error - no not imagine I see it all the time with TOD's and people coming up saying "I bought these tickets online...."

When I sell AP I journey print off the ticket balance screen on my STAR machine and ask the customer to check the detail before I print tickets/take payment.

I can void AP tickets if there the last transaction but after that I have to go through the refund process.

 

[causton]

Our 'rule' is 20 minutes - and we can non-issue anything issued at our window in that shift by typing in the ticket number, easy, or by typing in the full ticket details for something issued at another window or from a TVM. Very rarely would we non-issue anything from another station.

The 20 minutes rule can be waived however, for example, if you had come from an unstaffed station and bought the wrong ticket from the TVM or something.

However, it can be down to management or how the clerk is feeling at the time, as I would probably not do the non-issue Neil Williams described as I would get shot by the managers!

(Off-topic I know, but an excess is a 'fare override' so we have to report those as well, just by listing the ticket number i.e. "F/O 12345 Overdistance Excess" on our shift sheet - so if it was a zero fare I would just put "FO/ZF - 12345 Overdistance Excess". But we also have to print out a report of all our non-issues so all of it requires some faffing about!)

There is a list of reasons for non-issuing the tickets and number one is Issuing Error - so I would have definitely non-issued them immediately without fuss (unless I was sure that they had not said First Class, in which case I might use code 2, Customer Changed Request For Different Ticket )

Yes, I did read the last line of Neil Williams' post, and I have no comment
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I find that giving all the details all at once is more likely to cause something to be overlooked.

Nowadays I tell the clerk the date, let them key it in, tell them the origin and destination, let them key it in, and then say the ticket type I want. There's less chance of a mis-issue that way.

This is true, if you shout 20 things at us we will just ask you to repeat it one at a time!

Especially make it clear if the ticket is from a different station:
"No, I saw it for xx.xx online"
"Well from here to xyz is this much alone"
"No, not from here, from London!"
Oh of course, I knew that :roll: