Viva Rail Class 230's for West Midlands Trains

[Nat_Collins]

The first confirmed order of Viva Rail class 230's has been confirmed for West Midlands Trains/ London North Western Railway as of today.

The Rail magazine article has stated that the order of Viva Rail class 230's are for use on the Marston Vale Line between Bedford & Bletchley. The existing class 150/153 DMU's presumably will be sent elsewhere, rumoured is Northern or up to Birmingham to increase capacity on the metro services around the West Midlands area.

It's interesting to finally see an order of these unique units, but the question that keeps coming to my mind is what traction pack will they have, as Viva Rail offer multiple traction packages for the units, only time will tell.

Rail Magazines Article: https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/vivarail-s-d-trains-confirmed-for-bedford-bletchley

Three Vivarail two-car Class 230 diesel electric multiple units (DEMUs) will enter traffic on the Bedford-Bletchley line from December.

The deal was finally confirmed on March 1. The DEMUs will replace two-car Class 150/1s and single-car Class 153 diesel multiple units currently used by West Midlands Trains (WMT).

Vivarail spokesman Alice Gilman told RAIL the company will make a separate announcement on maintenance contracts a

 

[D365]

Diesel - and we have an long-standing discussion on this.

 

[brel york]

Wabtec are doing some bogie work for them I think

 

[Kite159]

Wasn't this previously announced with the franchise reward that 230s were taking over the rural outpost of the Marston Vale line?

 

[Domh245]

Wasn't this previously announced with the franchise reward that 230s were taking over the rural outpost of the Marston Vale line?

Nothing had been officially announced, it only really came to light because of presentations given by Abellio to user groups that were then shared. This is (as far as I'm aware) the first official confirmation of 230s for the line.

 

[IanXC]

For the avoidance of doubt, this thread should be used purely for discussion of the order and introduction of these trains to West Midlands Trains, the overall concept and project should be discussed in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/creation-of-class-230-demus-from-ex-lu-d78s-by-vivarail.103488/

 

[mushroomchow]

I imagine the basher interest alone will boost patronage on the Marston Vale once the 230s are introduced.

Any idea where the units will be stabled?

 

[47802]

I imagine the basher interest alone will boost patronage on the Marston Vale once the 230s are introduced.

Any idea where the units will be stabled?

Hmm I don't think I will be in a rush to have a ride on it

 

[northwichcat]

The trains are to get walk through gangways. A mock up shared on their Twitter feed

 

[gazthomas]

The gangways I like, the longitudal I don’t!

 

[pdeaves]

The trains are to get walk through gangways. A mock up shared on their Twitter feed

Does this show the train 'as ordered'? Are sideways seats best for this route? (I don't know, I hardly ever go that way).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The gangways I like, the longitudal I don’t!

I'd rather that than the Class 153, at least I can comfortably sit in all of the seats rather than only the table seats and only then when nobody is opposite.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does this show the train 'as ordered'? Are sideways seats best for this route? (I don't know, I hardly ever go that way).

The original layout which has mostly longitudinal seats and a few bays of 4 is probably about spot-on. Trains are either very lightly loaded (in which case there's a bay for everyone, or for two people diagonally opposite one another) or very heavily loaded in the case of the school trains (in which case longitudinal and good standing provision is useful).

As to what was ordered, only Abellio and Vivarail know that, it hasn't been publicised.

 

[northwichcat]

Does this show the train 'as ordered'? Are sideways seats best for this route? (I don't know, I hardly ever go that way).

The mockup shows the design with both types of seats - longitudinal in the middle and 2+2 at the ends. I think that's the basic option Vivarail are offering, if Abellio want 2+2 throughout it'll cost more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The mockup shows the design with both types of seats - longitudinal in the middle and 2+2 at the ends. I think that's the basic option Vivarail are offering, if Abellio want 2+2 throughout it'll cost more.

The old LU layout had mostly longitudinal with 2 bays of 4 in each coach, that is the default I suspect.

 

[47802]

The wide gangways certainly look an improvement and make the inside look a lot more modern, the original doors between carriages look cumbersome and of course weren't really designed for people to walk through in normal usage, although I guess you could probably have a narrow gangway and just take the doors off.

 

[DarloRich]

I have cut the posts below form the other thread to keep them both on topic

A final point about the 230's is that financially they actually don't seem like a particularly good deal to me, and with the Marston Vale units it will be interesting to see how far they go in terms of tarting up the interior, how many longitudinal seats will be replaced if any, and whether or not it will get a Toilet, in other words will it look like a tarted up D train or "the best New Train in the Country"

We mere passengers of the Vale hope both WM & VIVA go for a decent spec to put the concept in the shop window.

I've mentioned why I think the as-built D78 seat layout (with a few tweaks to add a wheelchair and bicycle space and some luggage provision) is ideal for the Marston Vale, so I would expect they will have the Tube seat layout, i.e. 5 sections of seats per coach with some longitudinal and some facing. They might well block a couple of doors up and add some seats or luggage racks there, that will be interesting to see, though.

I don't know about toilets but it is a relatively short journey with both termini (most people travel to/from one of them rather than fully local journeys) having toilets.

Us regular passengers of the line are not fantastically happy about the idea that longitudinal seating may remain. I am also not sure about toilets but there are no facilities along the branch and long gaps in the service.

769 flex would have probably been a better option as:
1) local service depots familiar with 319 setup and maintainance,also driver training as a lot of drivers already passed to work on them
2)both bedford and bletchley are already wired
3)seating and ride quality will be better

drawback would be the flex would have to be 3 car, two cabs and motor...so would increase running costs(although at peak time a 3 car might suffice instead of 2*2 car)

if they can run a 4 car 319 on the abbey line then there is no reason not to run similar on marston vale,the footfall is higher.

1) Which depot? They would have to travel up to Northampton for maintenance and i suspect both it and Bletchley sidings are full. LM wont reopen Bletchley for one little sub class.
2)The wiring would be of little use. It is so short as to be meaningless.
3) maybe

The drawback is that the diesel 319 would have to be 2 carriages. That is part of the problem. Anything longer will not fit in the platforms on the Vale. There is no scope for DDO and little scope for SDO without investment. Thea investment wont be forthcoming.

Marston Vale platforms are 40m long, with no possibility of SDO.

I doubt most of them are even 40m's long!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With regard to the mock-up, if you're doing all that heavy(ish) engineering to put a wide gangway in it'd be a bit silly to then negate many of the advantages of it by putting 2+2 seating right up against it.

I'd probably suggest that the inner vehicle ends have the seating as shown in the mock-up, but everywhere else gets transverse 2+2 (mix of bays and airline) apart from the wheelchair space. I don't know the route well but my gut feeling is that luggage space isn't an absolute priority.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I doubt most of them are even 40m's long!

They are, else the 150 would hang off the back.

 

[DarloRich]

They are, else the 150 would hang off the back.

Kempston, say, must be very tight. I am fairly sure in the Bletchley direction the 150 cab must be right on the end of the platform. The passenger doors are ok. I am not sure about the cab doors!

 

[gordonthemoron]

will this result in an improved frequency?

 

[DarloRich]

will this result in an improved frequency?

On the Vale? I don't think so. It will allow for a spare unit that should increase resilience and provide a more reliable service for us. it is also a step towards the promised ( nay mythical!) Sunday service

 

[Kite159]

The longitudinal seating will be better than the high density 3+2 airline seating on the 150. Most passengers would rather stand than sit in the middle seat

 

[Domh245]

Which depot? They would have to travel up to Northampton for maintenance and i suspect both it and Bletchley sidings are full. LM wont reopen Bletchley for one little sub class.

Vivarail waxed lyrical about how these trains will be easy to maintain requiring little more than a man with spanners, a fork lift, and a van (paraphrasing). Theoretically, the 230s can just be stabled somewhere on the route and maintained in situ, only being removed by road or to a depot for the heaviest maintenance (bogies or whatever)

 

[DarloRich]

Vivarail waxed lyrical about how these trains will be easy to maintain requiring little more than a man with spanners, a fork lift, and a van (paraphrasing). Theoretically, the 230s can just be stabled somewhere on the route and maintained in situ, only being removed by road or to a depot for the heaviest maintenance (bogies or whatever)

sounds like the pad outside the depot and the carriage sidings will do the job

 

[gazthomas]

I'd rather that than the Class 153, at least I can comfortably sit in all of the seats rather than only the table seats and only then when nobody is opposite.

At 6 ft 4 in myself I sympathise.

 

[White Ant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...ains-made-of-old-london-underground-carriages

former London Underground carriages are being refurbished and turned into trains to be used elsewhere in the country.

London Northwestern Railway's Bedford to Bletchley line will be the first to introduce the carriages from December. They are being refurbished with new seating, toilets, plug sockets and wi-fi.

These carriages are said to be cheaper and quicker to introduce than new ones, which can take three years to arrive once ordered.

The coverage of the Vivarail initiative on the BBC last week suggested that these two coach trains would replace single coach trains, thus double the capacity. Today both the units running on the Marston Vale line were two coach units anyway (150105 and 150109), and these units have room for bicycles and wheelchairs anyway.

Apparently the one coach unit has failed in a big way - and I guess there is increased demand for them elsewhere on the network now the Kenilworth service has started.

I find the 150s comfortable enough, and those who need extra legroom can find plenty in the five seats near the door - or can sit sideways if the cycle area isn't in use.

We had an issue on my journey where the train needed to reverse a short distance as it had stopped with a door opposite a platform bench at Apsley Guise and a person with an electric wheelchair needed sufficient space to get down the ramp and make a 90 degree turn. I hope the Vivarail alternative has taken this into account.

 

[D365]

The reason why the Class 150s are more prevelant is due to carriage lengths, unlike most other DMUs they consist of 20m rather than 23m. Two 20m carriages will fit but two 23m carriages/units won’t.

If you are concerned about ramp access I may be able to find out more at some point.

 

[DarloRich]

The longitudinal seating will be better than the high density 3+2 airline seating on the 150. Most passengers would rather stand than sit in the middle seat

seats aren't a problem on our line!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...ains-made-of-old-london-underground-carriages

The coverage of the Vivarail initiative on the BBC last week suggested that these two coach trains would replace single coach trains, thus double the capacity. Today both the units running on the Marston Vale line were two coach units anyway (150105 and 150109), and these units have room for bicycles and wheelchairs anyway.

We usually run as 1x 153 ( single carriage) & 1 x 150 ( 2 carriage). There are few complaints when we run as 2 x 150! They are better at keeping to time and better for loading and unloading, especially of bikes.

Apparently the one coach unit has failed in a big way - and I guess there is increased demand for them elsewhere on the network now the Kenilworth service has started.

Kenilworth seems to be giving us a service boost - again no complaints. The 153's are rotten.

I find the 150s comfortable enough, and those who need extra legroom can find plenty in the five seats near the door - or can sit sideways if the cycle area isn't in use.

We had an issue on my journey where the train needed to reverse a short distance as it had stopped with a door opposite a platform bench at Apsley Guise and a person with an electric wheelchair needed sufficient space to get down the ramp and make a 90 degree turn. I hope the Vivarail alternative has taken this into account.

Platform furniture is a big issue with access ramps. It should be designed out for new stations but older stations create issues. The ramp access for the new trains should be similar to currently so i don't see an issue. Perhaps someone can confirm.

 

[White Ant]

seats aren't a problem on our line!



We usually run as 1x 153 ( single carriage) & 1 x 150 ( 2 carriage). There are few complaints when we run as 2 x 150! They are better at keeping to time and better for loading and unloading, especially of bikes.



Kenilworth seems to be giving us a service boost - again no complaints. The 153's are rotten.



Platform furniture is a big issue with access ramps. It should be designed out for new stations but older stations create issues. The ramp access for the new trains should be similar to currently so i don't see an issue. Perhaps someone can confirm.

The specific issue at Apsley Guise is that there is a perimeter fence very close, so the wheelchair barely has room to manoeuvre when the area is completely clear, let alone when there is a narrow bench there. The issue then comes when the door lines up with that bench. That’s not an issue on the single coach trains (with their doors at the very end of the carriage, and more room to shuffle forwards if necessary) - but that wasn’t an option that day.