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Visual impairment court trial

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jymford

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I have been charged with failing to hand over their ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person, contrary to byelaws 18.2 and 24.1 of the Merseyrail Railway Byelaws 2014 and I am due to appear in court in May. I would appreciate your thoughts on the following and if you know of any similar cases that have been to court.

Previously I had travelled by Merseyrail train from Bache to Liverpool (return) on 9th May 2023, 11th May 2023, 13th May 2023, 30th June 2023, 1st September 2023. All the Liverpool destination stations had ticket barriers and so I was unable to exit the station without purchasing a return ticket. My actions on all of the occasions were to purchase a return ticket at the barriered Liverpool stations due to my visual impairment. I was permitted on every date to purchase a return ticket at the Liverpool Stations due to my visual impairment. I was never verbally prewarned on all travel dates prior to Merseyrail’s new requirement to purchase a ticket before boarding a train from 17th July 2023, even though I had mentioned my visual impairment on all occasions. I have always been allowed to purchase return tickets at staffed Liverpool stations with ticket barriers because of my visual impairment and that I require assistance from Merseyrail staff.

On all occasions I explained at the Liverpool Stations that Bache was an unstaffed station, and I was unable to interact with the ticket machine because of not being able to see the screen. The details of the witness’s statement are biased in that the Officer did not include that I retracted the comment about being in a rush (this will be on the video footage). What actually happened and was clearly explained several times (hence the delay), was that I was intentionally unaware of the train departure times from the departure station, I calmly walked up the barrier and a train just so happened to arrive.

I also explained that regardless of the time of arrival at the departure station I would have been unable to purchase a ticket in advance at the unstaffed train station due to my visual impairment. To add, upon approaching the ticket barrier at the destination station I initially approached a female colleague at the entrance barriers (not the exit barrier) and requested to purchase a return ticket. I was then directed to another female member of staff at the exit barriers when again I requested to purchase a return ticket. The second female employee passed me on to two male members of the Loss Prevention Team by the exit barriers. I had every intention to purchase a return ticket because I asked to purchase a ticket from two employees at the entrance barriers. Merseyrail would not have suffered any loss. I had no intent to defraud Merseyrail. I had no intent to avoid payment. I also answered "no" to the Loss Prevention Officer when questioned "were you aware that you should have a ticket before travel?".

6th September 2023 I provided evidence of my visual impairment to Merseyrail. “CF” means can count fingers at a specified distance, and this is used to describe vision that is too reduced to identify any letters on a chart and therefore cannot be measured as a fraction. Page 18 of Merseyrails’s “Accessible Travel Policy (June 2020)” states

“If you are unable to buy a ticket at a station before your journey or are unable to use the self–service ticket machine, you will be able to buy a ticket at your destination station or from one of our Revenue Protection staff with no penalty and with any appropriate discounts. All of our Station and Revenue Protection teams are aware of this policy and will be happy to assist you where needed.”

Byelaw 18.2 states “A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person”, but byelaw 18.3 states “No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18.1 or 18.2 if an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket”.

Merseyrail’s “Making Rail Accessible - Helping Older and Disabled Passengers (June 2020)” sets out the arrangements and services in place to help customers including those with visual impairments. The section “Unstaffed or Temporarily Closed Stations” on page 6 includes “If you want to travel from an accessible unstaffed station, please use the help point on the platform to alert our control room”.

The following day after the penalty was issued, I revisited the departure train station (Bache) and used the help point. I explained that I was at Bache train station, the station was not staffed, and due to being visually impaired, I was unable to interact with the ticket machine. The employee advised to board the train and a return ticket can be purchased at the Liverpool Station.

On Thursday 5th October 2023 I revisited the same departure station to obtain video evidence that supports the above.
 
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Blindtraveler

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As a fellow visually impaired passenger, you may well have to go to court but they'll have a great deal of difficulty making any kind of prosecution or even a slap on the wrist stick to you because they are not only going against their own rules which is not uncommon but also in breach of the equality act 2010 which is what the legal system will be most interested in. I've had running with the northern revenue police at Manchester on more than one occasion and on both of those occasions contact with a fairly senior manager at the train operator got this stopped before a great deal of time and indeed public money within the court system was wasted on attempting to prosecute the innocent and more to the point calls a great deal of embarrassment to the train company in question, I should imagine that this second point might be even more relevant here as mersy Rail is a franchised operator of the Liverpool city region who will not want the considerably gigantic size egg spread all over several faces.
 

Haywain

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You would appear to have a knack of upsetting Merseyrail, and they may be struggling to put together what you are saying here with the other thread you have started about your car parking prosecution. If they are, I wouldn't blame them.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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So you couldn't see the machine to purchase a ticket, but in your other post had been driving a car?
 

jymford

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So you couldn't see the machine to purchase a ticket, but in your other post had been driving a car?
I have extreme hyperopia that can be reduced to a reasonable level with very thick and heavy spectacles. The magnification of the eyes is so severe that I only wear them when absolutely necessary.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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I have extreme hyperopia that can be reduced to a reasonable level with very thick and heavy spectacles. The magnification of the eyes is so severe that I only wear them when absolutely necessary.
But you can use them to drive a car to a legal level I take it? I would suggest purchasing a ticket for a train journey is absolutely necessary on a penalty fare train operated company such as Meresyrail where facilities exist and you could use glasses to use the machine but chose not too as you deemed it not absolutely necessary.
 

jymford

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You would appear to have a knack of upsetting Merseyrail, and they may be struggling to put together what you are saying here with the other thread you have started about your car parking prosecution. If they are, I wouldn't blame thThe

But you can use them to drive a car to a legal level I take it? I would suggest purchasing a ticket for a train journey is absolutely necessary on a penalty fare train operated company such as Meresyrail where facilities exist and you could use glasses to use the machine but chose not too as you deemed it not absolutely necessary.
"Previously I had travelled by Merseyrail train from Bache to Liverpool (return) on 9th May 2023, 11th May 2023, 13th May 2023, 30th June 2023, 1st September 2023. All the Liverpool destination stations had ticket barriers and so I was unable to exit the station without purchasing a return ticket. My actions on all of the occasions were to purchase a return ticket at the barriered Liverpool stations due to my visual impairment. I was permitted on every date to purchase a return ticket at the Liverpool Stations due to my visual impairment. I was never verbally prewarned on all travel dates prior to Merseyrail’s new requirement to purchase a ticket before boarding a train from 17th July 2023, even though I had mentioned my visual impairment on all occasions. I have always been allowed to purchase return tickets at staffed Liverpool stations with ticket barriers because of my visual impairment and that I require assistance from Merseyrail staff."

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

You would appear to have a knack of upsetting Merseyrail, and they may be struggling to put together what you are saying here with the other thread you have started about your car parking prosecution. If they are, I wouldn't blame them.
Please read the updated thread for the full picture. Hopefully it will be clear now.
 

Sultan

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But you can use them to drive a car to a legal level I take it? I would suggest purchasing a ticket for a train journey is absolutely necessary on a penalty fare train operated company such as Meresyrail where facilities exist and you could use glasses to use the machine but chose not too as you deemed it not absolutely necessary.
I think in this case it is only possible to correct the OP's sight for driving with spectacles (far-sightedness) and that it isn't when using ticket machines (short-sightedness). I wasn't aware this affected people in this way until now either.
 

Haywain

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Hopefully it will be clear now.
I've been reading, and I maintain that you seem to have a knack of upsetting Merseyrail. I am not an expert on the sort of visual impairment in question but then neither will Merseyrail staff be expert, so it is easy to see why they are apparently struggling to reconcile the two sets of circumstances.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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I think in this case it is only possible to correct the OP's sight for driving with spectacles (far-sightedness) and that it isn't when using ticket machines (short-sightedness). I wasn't aware this affected people in this way until now either.
I am surprised if the DVLA allow driving without good vision both near and far when corrected.
 

Deafdoggie

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I have been charged with failing to hand over their ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person, contrary to byelaws 18.2 and 24.1 of the Merseyrail Railway Byelaws 2014 and I am due to appear in court in May. I would appreciate your thoughts on the following and if you know of any similar cases that have been to court.

Previously I had travelled by Merseyrail train from Bache to Liverpool (return) on 9th May 2023, 11th May 2023, 13th May 2023, 30th June 2023, 1st September 2023. All the Liverpool destination stations had ticket barriers and so I was unable to exit the station without purchasing a return ticket. My actions on all of the occasions were to purchase a return ticket at the barriered Liverpool stations due to my visual impairment. I was permitted on every date to purchase a return ticket at the Liverpool Stations due to my visual impairment. I was never verbally prewarned on all travel dates prior to Merseyrail’s new requirement to purchase a ticket before boarding a train from 17th July 2023, even though I had mentioned my visual impairment on all occasions. I have always been allowed to purchase return tickets at staffed Liverpool stations with ticket barriers because of my visual impairment and that I require assistance from Merseyrail staff.

On all occasions I explained at the Liverpool Stations that Bache was an unstaffed station, and I was unable to interact with the ticket machine because of not being able to see the screen. The details of the witness’s statement are biased in that the Officer did not include that I retracted the comment about being in a rush (this will be on the video footage). What actually happened and was clearly explained several times (hence the delay), was that I was intentionally unaware of the train departure times from the departure station, I calmly walked up the barrier and a train just so happened to arrive.

I also explained that regardless of the time of arrival at the departure station I would have been unable to purchase a ticket in advance at the unstaffed train station due to my visual impairment. To add, upon approaching the ticket barrier at the destination station I initially approached a female colleague at the entrance barriers (not the exit barrier) and requested to purchase a return ticket. I was then directed to another female member of staff at the exit barriers when again I requested to purchase a return ticket. The second female employee passed me on to two male members of the Loss Prevention Team by the exit barriers. I had every intention to purchase a return ticket because I asked to purchase a ticket from two employees at the entrance barriers. Merseyrail would not have suffered any loss. I had no intent to defraud Merseyrail. I had no intent to avoid payment. I also answered "no" to the Loss Prevention Officer when questioned "were you aware that you should have a ticket before travel?".

6th September 2023 I provided evidence of my visual impairment to Merseyrail. “CF” means can count fingers at a specified distance, and this is used to describe vision that is too reduced to identify any letters on a chart and therefore cannot be measured as a fraction. Page 18 of Merseyrails’s “Accessible Travel Policy (June 2020)” states

“If you are unable to buy a ticket at a station before your journey or are unable to use the self–service ticket machine, you will be able to buy a ticket at your destination station or from one of our Revenue Protection staff with no penalty and with any appropriate discounts. All of our Station and Revenue Protection teams are aware of this policy and will be happy to assist you where needed.”

Byelaw 18.2 states “A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person”, but byelaw 18.3 states “No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18.1 or 18.2 if an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket”.

Merseyrail’s “Making Rail Accessible - Helping Older and Disabled Passengers (June 2020)” sets out the arrangements and services in place to help customers including those with visual impairments. The section “Unstaffed or Temporarily Closed Stations” on page 6 includes “If you want to travel from an accessible unstaffed station, please use the help point on the platform to alert our control room”.

The following day after the penalty was issued, I revisited the departure train station (Bache) and used the help point. I explained that I was at Bache train station, the station was not staffed, and due to being visually impaired, I was unable to interact with the ticket machine. The employee advised to board the train and a return ticket can be purchased at the Liverpool Station.

On Thursday 5th October 2023 I revisited the same departure station to obtain video evidence that supports the above.
I suspect Merseyrail will use the fact that you have passed (presumably) all the required sight tests for driving. If you do end up in court I'd take a very good lawyer with you. If you couldn't drive your case would be much stronger, but meeting the DVLA standards does mean a ticket machine shouldn't create any issue. Indeed they may point out you shouldn't be driving if you can't use a ticket machine.
I speak as someone with a number of disabilities and a restricted licence due to them! They don't, however, mean I can ride roughshod over the rules and regulations.
 

AlterEgo

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We're going to need to see all the correspondence on this one as well. What a pickle.
 

Bletchleyite

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No but you have to inform DVLA of any impairments or illness I would suggest not being able to see something in front of your face may very well be a rather big issue.

Many people over the age of about 50 only have a choice between near OR far with the relevant glasses on. For driving you want far, though bifocals or varifocals can give a small area of near for the instruments.

But in the OP's case surely they just need to wear their glasses to use the TVM. If we considered correctable vision issues a disability, more than half the population would be considered disabled.
 

Deafdoggie

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There is no eye test for near vision when taking a test.
No. But there's no requirement for a lot things when taking a driving test. But you're still required to tell the DVLA anyway. If you can't see the cars dashboard and display (most these days are effectively computer screens) then you must tell the DVLA
 

Gloster

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As someone who has sight problems, albeit much less serious, I think you must, at minimum, provide Merseyrail with a very solid explanation backed up by medical evidence as to why you can drive a car, but not operate a ticket machine. In particular, why have you not got corrective glasses that allow you to use such items as ticket machines, even if you only wear them when absolutely necessary?
 

jymford

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I've been reading, and I maintain that you seem to have a knack of upsetting Merseyrail. I am not an expert on the sort of visual impairment in question but then neither will Merseyrail staff be expert, so it is easy to see why they are apparently struggling to reconcile the two sets of circumstan

I am surprised if the DVLA allow driving without good vision both near and far when corrected.


o read a number plate from 20 metres is the minimum sight requirement.You must be able to read a car number plate from 20 metres away (with glasses or contact lenses, if necessary)

I've been reading, and I maintain that you seem to have a knack of upsetting Merseyrail. I am not an expert on the sort of visual impairment in question but then neither will Merseyrail staff be expert, so it is easy to see why they are apparently struggling to reconcile the two sets of circumstances.
Sorry, I don't think I've been clear. I only wear spectacles to correct my sight to road legal driving. However, I do not wear spectacles elsewhere due to the massive magnification and weight. I navigate without spectacles with the familiarity of colour, shape, movement of objects and sounds. A similar example would be like a hearing impaired person choosing not to wear their hearing aids and missing a notification about the need to purchase a ticket before boarding a train.
 

Deafdoggie

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But in the OP's case surely they just need to wear their glasses to use the TVM. If we considered correctable vision issues a disability, more than half the population would be considered disabled.
Exactly. TOCs (quite rightly) must make reasonable adjustments for disability but so should the disabled! If I take my glasses off I can't really see all that much, but I wear them so that I can see. If I've chosen not to wear them I can't complain I can't see! If I take my hearing aids out I can't complain I didn't hear an announcement!
I don't have a wheelchair, but if I did, I wouldn't not use it and expect to be carried onto the train!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

A similar example would be like a hearing impaired person choosing not to wear their hearing aids and missing a notification about the need to purchase a ticket before boarding a train.
I'd accept that as my fault for not wearing them
 

6Gman

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Sight impairments can be complex and I doubt anyone on here is really in a position to judge whether the OP's explanation is sound or otherwise.

There are charities both national and local (there are two in the Chester area) who may be able to support the OP, as also could their optometrist etc.
 

Deafdoggie

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Sight impairments can be complex
As can all disabilities. But the OP appears to be saying they can use the ticket machine if they wear their glasses, but they chose not to wear their glasses. The fact they also drove to the station doesn't help their case in saying their eyesight is poor. If this were to end up in court, the obvious question for merseyrail to ask is "Can you see the car instrument panel whilst driving?" If the answer is yes, they'll argue you can see a TVM screen. If the answer is no, they'll argue you shouldn't be driving. It's a no win situation.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be risking it.
 

FenMan

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As can all disabilities. But the OP appears to be saying they can use the ticket machine if they wear their glasses, but they chose not to wear their glasses. The fact they also drove to the station doesn't help their case in saying their eyesight is poor. If this were to end up in court, the obvious question for merseyrail to ask is "Can you see the car instrument panel whilst driving?" If the answer is yes, they'll argue you can see a TVM screen. If the answer is no, they'll argue you shouldn't be driving. It's a no win situation.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be risking it.

Likewise, the OP effectively saying wearing glasses is tolerable in order to drive but intolerable when it comes to purchasing train tickets from a TVM. A risky argument, in my opinion.
 

Sultan

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I think what the OP is saying is that they cannot wear glasses to correct close vision as they would be too heavy - possibly akin to a -20 on the optician scale. I’m only a -4 yet require the expensive thinner lenses. Heaven knows how heavy a -20 would be - probably break your nose!

Using an adapted laptop and screen will no doubt make it easier for them to be posting here (very eloquently and largely grammatically correct I might add).

But it does sound like something isn’t quite right for this to have been dragging on so long.
 

ainsworth74

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I think we should probably at this point move on from the OP and driving. They have kindly explained their disability to a bunch of a strangers on the internet. I'm not sure there's anything useful to be gained by continuing to grill them on this personal matter.
 

Daniel

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I've taken an interest in this one as my wife is blind - or 'severely sight impaired' in legal terms - and therefore could see herself in this situation... albeit without having parked her car at the train station first!

---

As a random example, the charity "Sense" has the following description for a visual impairment:


The term "visual impairment" is used to describe sight loss that cannot be corrected using glasses or contact lenses.

In terms of being able to prove a visual impairment in a court, I would imagine this will fall down to can it be corrected by glasses or not. Having glasses which correct the impairment, but choosing not to wear them, I do not believe would allow you to be classed as visually impaired.

EDIT:

So lets look into the Equality Act 2010:

Persons deemed to have a disability​

7. A person is deemed to have a disability, and hence to be a disabled person, for the purposes of the Act where that person is certified as blind, severely sight impaired, sight impaired or partially sighted by a consultant ophthalmologist.

So in order to be registered at the bottom scale, sight impaired / partially sighted, do you need to wear glasses or not (if issued)? Are you assessed with or without them?

The Royal National Institute for Blind People (RNIB) state:

Your visual acuity is measured by reading down an eye chart while wearing any glasses or contact lenses that you may need, so remember to bring them to your appointment. The test for visual acuity is known as a Snellen test. Your field of vision is measured by a “visual field test”. There are guidelines about the level of sight needed to be registered severely sight impaired (blind) or sight impaired (partially sighted)

So yes, you'd need to wear your glasses and have your 'corrected' vision levels assessed in order to be declared sight impaired and therefore be covered under the Equality Act for this purpose.

EDIT 2:

So let's imagine that the OP is indeed registered as sight impaired. Should they be driving? One for the DVLA to determine I'd imagine.

So the lowest level of registration of visual impairment is 'partially sighted' or 'sight impaired', the criteria for which is at best:

RNIB said:
To be certified as sight impaired (partially sighted) your sight must fall into one of the following categories, while wearing any glasses or contact lenses that you may need:

  • Visual acuity of 3 / 60 to 6 / 60 with a full field of vision.
The DVLA sets the minimum eyesight standards:

DVLA said:

Minimum eyesight standards – all drivers​

The law requires that all licensed drivers to meet the following eyesight requirements (including drivers aided by prescribed glasses or contact lenses):
  • the visual acuity must be at least Snellen 6/12 with both eyes open or in the only eye if monocular

So to be registered as partially sighted, your vision level must be below the level that is the minimum standard acceptable to drive
 
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Y Ddraig Coch

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Ok, to summarise, i dont think the OP has a valid reason not to have a ticket and should pay any penalty due.
 
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