Visiting UK for 1st time in 2019

[thaitransit]

I am from Australia and have travelled extensively by rail within Australia and parts of South East Asia over the last couple of decades. I am hoping to visit the UK to meet family and while there doing some rail trips and take some train photos during my stay.

I will be based of Preston and Doncaster for much of the trip (Family Members Homes). So far I come up with a few interesting trips.

1. Preston to Thurso and return (overnight trains)
2. Preston to Fort William with steam train connection and return. (Overnight Trains)
3. Settle to Carlisle not sure how one gets to the line from Preston or Doncaster?
4. Preston to Doncaster daylight train.
5. London to Preston daylight train. (Probably lunchtime train arrving in the evening)
6. Doncaster to London. Daylight train. (Probably morning train arrving in the mid afternoon)
7. Doncaster to York return.

7. London to Cornwell? Overnight one way? Return.

My Questions are:

Are these train trips above interesting journeys eg nice views and comfortable trains with good on board meals?
Is a 1st class British Rail Pass the best way to do these above journeys?
How far in advance can one book tickets and do the trains sell out months in advance?
Are the sleeping trains comfortable and easy to sleep on?
Are the trains in general airconditioned and does it keep things cool?
Do the trains have on board toilets and buffet car with nice food?
Do the trains tend to run on time or close to it 99% or better of the time? Eg no excessive delays from waiting to cross other trains or endless 40kph heat speed restrictions for hundreds of km.
Is 2 hours between connecting trains enough to ensure the next train is made?

On a similar issue does anyone recommend alternative train journeys that are must dos?

Also are there any heritage mainline steam tours out of Preston or Doncaster?
Also what would be the best tourist railways to visit in the UK?

Will 15 days be enough time to do this comfortably?

Lastly this is most likely to occur in September or October 2019. Will extreme weather be an issue during this period eg cyclones or monsoonal rain? Will the weather be warm and dry during this time?

Sorry for so many questions.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[rebmcr]

3. Settle to Carlisle not sure how one gets to the line from Preston or Doncaster?

This map, in conjunction with nationalrail.co.uk will give you all the information about lines and connections.

5. London to Preston daylight train. (Probably lunchtime train arrving in the evening)
6. Doncaster to London. Daylight train. (Probably morning train arrving in the mid afternoon)

Those journeys only take about 2 hours, as the trains operate at 200kmh. Lunchtime departure would give you early afternoon arrival, and a morning train would have you there in time for lunch.

Is a 1st class British Rail Pass the best way to do these above journeys?

Britrail is the best value for overseas visitors making lots of journeys.

How far in advance can one book tickets and do the trains sell out months in advance?

Usually 3 months, sometimes less. You won't need to book with a Britrail pass though, except on the sleepers.

Do the trains tend to run on time or close to it 99% or better of the time? Eg no excessive delays from waiting to cross other trains or endless 40kph heat speed restrictions for hundreds of km.
Is 2 hours between connecting trains enough to ensure the next train is made?

The schedule is broadly reliable. Depending on the station, 5 to 15 minutes is OK. "100s of km" is halfway along the country!

Will extreme weather be an issue during this period eg cyclones or monsoonal rain?

We don't really have extreme weather.

 

[daikilo]

I welcome your enthusiasm and would love to have the money to do what you suggest! I am sure others will be able to focus on how to optimise that aspect.

My personal view is that
- London to Preston on a Pendolino is worth the experience and food is available
- you should combine your trips to Soctland knowing that the routes are diffent (Thurso is from Inverness whilst Kyle of Lochalsh/Malaig (steam) is from Glasgow. Also I am not sure what accomodation is available on the sleeper trains at Preston (if any). I particularly like being awake north of Perth and Glasgow respectively for the scenery. You may want to consider a coach from Inverness to Kyle. I'm not convinced that a round-trip Inverness-Thurso is value -for-time.
- You can do various round-trips from Preston over the Settle and Carlisle with multiple changes and it is worth it, and you may want to try another route when going from Preston to Doncaster.
- There are so many heritage/narrow guage railways/tramways/museums in the UK that you will be spoilt for choice. NRM at York is great but only one of many locations.
- If you want a trip to Cornwall (?) I would suggest you take a trip along one of the several branch lines, that you see the Saltash bridge and the seafront at Dawlish in good daylight, and maybe go overnight westbound on the GWR sleeper and return daytime including the Exeter-Salisbury-Waterloo line.

 

[James Wake]

You could do something like: Preston-Fort William on sleeper
Jacobite steam train to Mallaig
Ferry to Armadale (Isle of Skye)
Bus to Kyle of Lochalsh
1713 train to Inverness.
Then overnight there in a hotel, there are some good chains there and independent bed and breakfasts. Market Brae Guest House is nice.
Day 2 do a round trip from Inverness to Wick at 1037, gets back at 2010, giving 35 mins until the slipper leaves to Preston and London. It gets to London at 0750 approx, so you could get a day train to Penzance in Cornwall then come back up to London on the sleeper overnight. Cornwall is worth a longer visit, so scenic and worth it. Definitely also the Isle of Wight is a must and Wales if you get time.

 

[James Wake]

Weather will probably be mixed.

Overnight trains require a supplement to the best of my knowledge for a berth on top of your BritRail, but no extra costs for the seats.

Heritage railways:
Bluebell (I volunteer there)
North Yorkshire Moors
Severn Valley Railway
Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland to name a few

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am from Australia and have travelled extensively by rail within Australia and parts of South East Asia over the last couple of decades. I am hoping to visit the UK to meet family and while there doing some rail trips and take some train photos during my stay.

There'll (probably) be people along shortly who can give you more detail than you can ever want on your specific queries, but to give an initial general introduction (and with the warning that I have scarcely travelled by train outside of the UK, so may not have the best perspective):

Compared to somewhere like Australia, the UK is small and densely populated. So in railway terms, this means that for broadly all of Great Britain south of maybe Glasgow and Edinburgh we have what a lot of countries would see as a glorified metro system. This has good points and bad points about it. The good points include the trains being frequent (most services are once an hour or more often - but see below as you want to travel on one of the exceptions) and tolerably punctual (example - the point where train companies have to give you a refund cuts in if the train is 15 minutes late), but the bad points include seats which are designed for short journeys (more like what you'll get on a comfortable town bus than on a long distance airliner) and limited catering (there's an unwritten assumption that if you get on a train in a town, there will be a supermarket nearby and you can go and buy sandwiches beforehand to take with you). It's also the case that with a few exceptions you don't have to book in advance to travel as long as you're prepared to pay for it - you can just turn up and go. Some people see this as a good thing, others as a bad...

You might want to have a look at current timetables (which may change a bit by 2019 but should be basically the same in terms of frequencies) at National Rail Enquiries http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/

I will be based of Preston and Doncaster for much of the trip (Family Members Homes). So far I come up with a few interesting trips.

1. Preston to Thurso and return (overnight trains)
2. Preston to Fort William with steam train connection and return. (Overnight Trains)

- Don't know about the above, sorry

3. Settle to Carlisle not sure how one gets to the line from Preston or Doncaster?

- The line through Settle starts (for practical purposes) in Leeds. Both Preston and Doncaster have direct trains to Leeds, so that should do you. But note that the Settle and Carlisle line is one of the exceptions to 'Great Britain being full of frequent trains' - I think there's one every two hours. In effect, this is one where you will have to plan to get a particular train. Note that there are also fast Preston - Carlisle trains along the West Coast main line, so if you are doing this trip from Preston you can do a circular journey.

4. Preston to Doncaster daylight train.

- looking at National Rail Enquiries, there are one or two trains an hour which do this, changing in Manchester and (on some journeys) Sheffield. This is rather what I mean about there being a glorified metro.

5. London to Preston daylight train. (Probably lunchtime train arrving in the evening)
6. Doncaster to London. Daylight train. (Probably morning train arrving in the mid afternoon)

- there's plenty of these for both points (5) and (6) - one an hour from Preston, and there seem to be two or three an hour from Doncaster

7. Doncaster to York return.

- It looks as if there are a couple of these an hour (although not very well spread out)

7. London to Cornwell? Overnight one way? Return.

- there's a sleeper to do this, but I've no recent experience to comment on it.

My Questions are:

Are these train trips above interesting journeys eg nice views and comfortable trains with good on board meals?

- in general, yes, you've found the scenic journeys. The scenery will be better in daylight, so given that you're planning to visit in our autumn when the nights are drawing in, do think about what time you want to travel. Most of the trains will be comfortable, with possible exceptions for Settle - Carlisle, Doncaster - York and Preston - Doncaster - but please don't get me wrong: all seats are upholstered and (tolerably) clean. It's just that the seats on those trips won't remind you very much of armchairs. The London trains you are looking at will have at seat food service if you are travelling first class, but you tend to get what is basically a snack rather than a full meal. See above about getting some sandwiches before travelling.

Is a 1st class British Rail Pass the best way to do these above journeys?

- it depends what is important to you. It's probably the most convenient way (with very few exceptions, it's valid on any train. The exceptions include some early morning express trains to London (too full of commuters) and steam trains (not run by the 'proper' railway)) but it's probably not the cheapest. For many journeys, it's possible to book very cheap Advance tickets, which come with a guaranteed seat (hooray!) but tie you to one particular train (boo!). That would be a cheaper, but more complicated and constricted way of going about things.

How far in advance can one book tickets and do the trains sell out months in advance?

- generally twelve weeks, except when things go a bit wrong (see lots of threads on this site, as they've gone a bit wrong at the moment). Up to 12 months in advance for sleepers. In general, trains don't sell out: you can turn up at the station 5 minutes before departure, buy a ticket (or already have your Britrail pass), hop on and get to your destination. You may have to stand - but it is very rare for trains to be so full that you can't travel.

Are the sleeping trains comfortable and easy to sleep on?
Are the trains in general airconditioned and does it keep things cool?

- Can't really comment on sleepers. Air conditioning is now the norm, although local trains around Preston / Doncaster, the Settle & Carlisle, and going to Thurso may not be. Given that the UK is somewhat colder than Australia, it's not too much of an issue.

Do the trains have on board toilets and buffet car with nice food?

- For anything more than a local journey, there will be toilets. On a large majority of trains (95% plus? there must be someone here who has a figure) they will work. Food - again, I refer to my first comments - bringing your own sandwiches is easiest (and unless you are on a train where they feed you, by far cheaper: once you're on the train you are a captive market).

Do the trains tend to run on time or close to it 99% or better of the time? Eg no excessive delays from waiting to cross other trains or endless 40kph heat speed restrictions for hundreds of km.
Is 2 hours between connecting trains enough to ensure the next train is made?

- despite the impression we give here, most trains run more or less to time. The railways also have a commitment (which is sometimes a bit hit and miss) to get you to where you have booked to: it may be late and slow, but except in the most extreme circumstances you will get to your destination. So if you are making a connection at a station, you don't need to leave two hours: in general, twenty minutes will be enough. If you have a journey that involves changes, national rail enquiries (as referenced above) will always allow the official minimum time for making a connection

On a similar issue does anyone recommend alternative train journeys that are must dos?

Also are there any heritage mainline steam tours out of Preston or Doncaster?
Also what would be the best tourist railways to visit in the UK?

Will 15 days be enough time to do this comfortably?

Lastly this is most likely to occur in September or October 2019. Will extreme weather be an issue during this period eg cyclones or monsoonal rain? Will the weather be warm and dry during this time?

As you'll have gathered from this site, we have just had some unseasonable weather, so we can never guarantee what the weather will be like. But broadly speaking, we do not expect cyclones or monsoons in the autumn. Given that the British Isles are a bunch of rocks between the warm(ish) wet Atlantic and the cold(ish) wet North Sea, with the warm, wet Gulf Stream pushing past us, it will probably be damp and a little chilly: expect drizzle and temperatures maybe around 10C. No one will think you strange if you carry a waterproof or umbrella. They might look twice at snow boots or flip flops.

Sorry for so many questions.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

- no problem. Enjoy planning your trip!

 

[James Wake]

You could do something like: Preston-Fort William on sleeper
Jacobite steam train to Mallaig
Ferry to Armadale (Isle of Skye)
Bus to Kyle of Lochalsh
1713 train to Inverness.
Then overnight there in a hotel, there are some good chains there and independent bed and breakfasts. Market Brae Guest House is nice.
Day 2 do a round trip from Inverness to Wick at 1037, gets back at 2010, giving 35 mins until the slipper leaves to Preston and London. It gets to London at 0750 approx, so you could get a day train to Penzance in Cornwall then come back up to London on the sleeper overnight. Cornwall is worth a longer visit, so scenic and worth it. Definitely also the Isle of Wight is a must and Wales if you get time.

 

[James Wake]

Weather likely to be mixed.

Overnight trains require a supplement to the best of my knowledge for a berth on top of your BritRail, but no extra costs for the seats.

Heritage railways:
Bluebell (I volunteer there)
North Yorkshire Moors
Severn Valley Railway
Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland to name a few.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Settle to Carlisle not sure how one gets to the line from Preston or Doncaster?

Do this on a Sunday if you can, there is a weekly train from Preston to the Settle-Carlisle line which runs over an otherwise unserved (by passenger services) section of line. In summer this is called DalesRail and runs all the way to Carlisle, in winter it's the Ribble Valley Rambler and you change at Hellifield. Both tend to be used by hikers and ramblers hence the name, they have rather an atmosphere of a coach-trip day away sort of thing, but the fares are very reasonable and advance booking is not necessary (or even I think possible).

Or go from Donny to Leeds and connect there.

 

[Darandio]

Weather will probably be mixed.

But i'm fairly sure it won't be cyclones or monsoonal rain!

It will probably be drizzle, followed by more drizzle.

 

[30907]

1. Preston to Thurso and return (overnight trains)
2. Preston to Fort William with steam train connection and return. (Overnight Trains)
3. Settle to Carlisle not sure how one gets to the line from Preston or Doncaster?
4. Preston to Doncaster daylight train.
5. London to Preston daylight train. (Probably lunchtime train arrving in the evening)
6. Doncaster to London. Daylight train. (Probably morning train arrving in the mid afternoon)
7. Doncaster to York return.

7. London to Cornwall? Overnight one way? Return.

On a similar issue does anyone recommend alternative train journeys that are must dos?

I wouldnt advise alighting from the sleeper at Preston unless you really enjoy 5am! With a Britrail you could just sleep on to London...have a free breakfast on the way back north and be with family for lunch. More seriously it's a shame IMO to miss out on the scenery - again, unless you are an early bird - and I'd opt for returning by daytime train.
If you are splashing out on 1st class, then I would take advantage of the inclusive meals on the East and West coast routes. I would also sample the reputedly superb restaurant cars on some Penzance trains, despite the prices!
The other trains you are using are older diesel units, mostly class 158 of which a version exists in Thailand IIRC. The aircon is a bit iffy, but that's not realy an issue in a British autumn.

To reach the Settle-Carlisle on weekdays, you can also go via Lancaster to Hellifield (nice scenery, less well known, but risks a poor quality train), or the X80/180/280 bus to Skipton, a pleasant ride.

As to other routes to try:
from Preston I would consider North Wales and the Cambrian Coast - if you don't mind a long day you can combine the two using the Festiniog or possibly Welsh Highland narrow gauge steam railways (discount with railpass).
from Doncaster, possibly via Middlesborough to Whitby, the North York Moors to Pickering, bus to Malton and home.

 

[thaitransit]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Looks like the Brit Rail Pass is the way to go. Aa mentioned seat reservation isn't required but wherever possible I will be travelling in 1st class are reservations possible so as not to miss out on a seat?

I didn't realise that London to Preston was only 2 hours. It seemed at lot further on the map more like 500km. Which in my experience is a good 6 to 9 hour train ride. I am used to alot of very long distance train travel in Australia often overnight and 24 hours plus trips eg Melbourne to Brisbane. But I digress.

Is there a daylight train between Fort William and Inverness?

I am very surprised that only 30 minutes is a reasonable time allowance for a connection. I am used to the minimum being 60 minutes and 2 to 3 hours preferred. Australian long distance trains are often more than 60 minutes late especially in summer. Is only 30 minutes between the Wick train and the Inverness train reasonable? I would not want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere all night.

Preston to Wales sounds like a good idea would a day return be possible including a reasonable time to visit Festininog/welsh highland Railway? What is the nearest station to the heritage railway?

Someone Suggested that it would be better to ride the overnight train all the way to London and then take the morning train back to Preston? Is this really worth it rather than just getting off at 4am?

What is meant by a poor quality train? Unreliable? Old?

I have been on a class 158 train before but the metre guage version run by SRT Thailand. Its very old run down train but the aircon was ok on it. It has back up windows along the whole length of the train along with fans inside incase of broken aircon.

One thing I have noticed is that for regional areas of the UK eg Preston and Doncaster have an excellent train services according to the website referred to earlier. I am not used to Hourly or better regional trains a few trains a day is normally as it gets beyond the commuter regional areas in Australia.

Is there a complete railway system map for all UK regional railways?

By the way 10 degrees C is absolutely freezing! I am used to Autumn being around mid 20s to mid 30s and very dry with cool nights between 15 and low 20s.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is there a complete railway system map for all UK regional railways?

- try http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/maps.aspx - the zoomable map (fifth one down) shows everything, although for getting an initial view, one of the maps showing main stations only may be less bewildering.

By the way 10 degrees C is absolutely freezing! I am used to Autumn being around mid 20s to mid 30s and very dry with cool nights between 15 and low 20s.

- No, freezing is, well, freezing (zero celsius or colder). Great Britain is (I think) further north from the equator than Australia is south from the equator, so it is a colder country - but the Gulf Stream and the fact that we're a long thin island with nowhere very far from the (comparatively warm) sea means that in September / October you will not freeze to death, even if things are colder than you are used to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Looks like the Brit Rail Pass is the way to go. Aa mentioned seat reservation isn't required but wherever possible I will be travelling in 1st class are reservations possible so as not to miss out on a seat?

You can make reservations at any staffed station if you wish to, just show your valid pass when you do.

I didn't realise that London to Preston was only 2 hours. It seemed at lot further on the map more like 500km. Which in my experience is a good 6 to 9 hour train ride. I am used to alot of very long distance train travel in Australia often overnight and 24 hours plus trips eg Melbourne to Brisbane. But I digress.

Australia doesn't have a lot of high speed rail Even 200km/h is not that fast by European standards, but it does make the journey quicker. It's about 350km by the way.

Is there a daylight train between Fort William and Inverness?

Three per day if I recall correctly, may be more, fewer on Sundays. You can find the timetable on the ScotRail site. EDIT this is incorrect, see below, I read "Glasgow" for "Inverness" for some reason.

I am very surprised that only 30 minutes is a reasonable time allowance for a connection. I am used to the minimum being 60 minutes and 2 to 3 hours preferred. Australian long distance trains are often more than 60 minutes late especially in summer. Is only 30 minutes between the Wick train and the Inverness train reasonable? I would not want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere all night.

You will not be stranded in the middle of nowhere all night. If a connection is missed because of a delayed train (regardless of why it was delayed) speak to staff and you will normally be put in a taxi to your intended destination station. If there are quite a lot of you a coach might well be arranged.

The minimum connection times for this are very low - at some stations 5 minutes, at others up to 15, I'm not aware of any longer than that unless it involves moving between stations for the connection e.g. in London. These are formally recorded in the national timetable, but the easiest way to find out a valid connection is to use the nationalrail.co.uk journey planner. If it will give you an itinerary, the connections it gives you are acceptable and except where the railway genuinely can't do anything (e.g. very severe weather) you won't be left stranded, though you may need to seek staff out yourself as they may not otherwise know there is a problem because of the walk-up nature of the railway.

UK trains are generally quite punctual these days. There is a level of what might appear as sloppiness - 1-5 minute delays are not uncommon at all - but long delays (30 minutes plus) are really not that common.

Preston to Wales sounds like a good idea would a day return be possible including a reasonable time to visit Festininog/welsh highland Railway? What is the nearest station to the heritage railway?

A good option would be to do something like Preston-Crewe-Llandudno-Blaenau Ffestiniog-Porthmadog-Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Birmingham-Preston. This can probably be done in a day in one direction or the other (I vastly prefer that way round) but it is a long day, you might want to find a hotel half way round to enjoy it more.

Someone Suggested that it would be better to ride the overnight train all the way to London and then take the morning train back to Preston? Is this really worth it rather than just getting off at 4am?

Depends how much you value your sleep / sitting bored in the waiting room for 3-4 hours until things open. There is nothing open in Preston at 4am. If you don't value your sleep, take a good book to read and warm clothes because I'm not sure if the Preston waiting room is open all night.

What is meant by a poor quality train? Unreliable? Old?

Spartan and rough-riding, i.e. a Pacer (photo of outside and interior):

Class 144 exterior

Class 142 interior with bus bench seats though some have better seats than that

To be fair to Pacers, though, on a scenic rural line the all-round view out (except through the cabs) is unrivalled in the UK.

I have been on a class 158 train before but the metre guage version run by SRT Thailand. Its very old run down train but the aircon was ok on it. It has back up windows along the whole length of the train along with fans inside incase of broken aircon.

The Thai units look similar from the outside but have a completely different interior and aircon system. There are emergency windows, though, and these are often seen open.

One thing I have noticed is that for regional areas of the UK eg Preston and Doncaster have an excellent train services according to the website referred to earlier. I am not used to Hourly or better regional trains a few trains a day is normally as it gets beyond the commuter regional areas in Australia.

Regional expresses are something the UK does very well - frequencies are generally high (except in very rural areas), one train an hour is usually the bare minimum and a good many are far better than that. Even outside of that we do quite well on frequencies, 3 trains per hour from London to Manchester for instance.

 

[BlueFox]

Is there a daylight train between Fort William and Inverness?

There are no direct trains between those two places, and to make the journey entirely by train you'd have to travel south to Glasgow before heading north again (taking 8ish hours).
You could go via Skye, but that involves two trains a ferry and a bus (two buses?) and could take a similar amount of time. It's a very scenic journey though, so I'd recommend that if you have the time.

The bus between Fort William and Inverness only takes two hours, and quite scenic as it takes the road alongside Loch Ness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are no direct trains between those two places, and to make the journey entirely by train you'd have to travel south to Glasgow before heading north again (taking 8ish hours).

Oops, sorry for some reason I read Glasgow, will correct my post.

 

[30907]

Re: Festiniog and Welsh Highland Railways.

The Festiniog has interchanges with National Rail at Minffordd (near Porthmadog) and Blaenau Festiniog (this is the uphill direction, which I personally prefer).
The Welsh Highland runs to Caernarfon from Porthmadog Harbour, same as the FR, which is about 15 minutes walk from the NR station. Caernarfon is a short bus ride from Bangor rail station, and there are plenty of buses.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

One extremely scenic route which hasn't been mentioned is the Lancaster-Barrow-Carlisle route (easily accessible from Preston). Slow, but if you stop halfway round at Ravenglass you can ride into the hills on a splendid Narrow Gauge steam train. You can also return by the quick route, direct from Carlisle to Preston.

From Doncaster, a nice circuit is Doncaster-Lincoln-Nottingham-Sheffield-Doncaster, which visits three contrasting and pleasant cities.

 

[John Webb]

A good website for the UK's many preserved railways and railway museums is http://www.heritage-railways.com/index.php which I recommend - it has links direct to the individual railway/museum websites. As has been mentioned above, travel on a preserved railway will not be covered by your Britrail pass.
For steam trains on the national network, see the site http://www.uksteam.info/tours/ which also give links to the various tour organisers; 2019 tours/trips will start appearing later this year.
Have an enjoyable time!

 

[thaitransit]

Thanks again for the advice.

It seems better to merge the scotland trips into a single multiple day trip.

Probably something like Preston to Fort William. Ride the steam train out and back. Then overnight at Fort William. Then catch bus to inverness then spend 2 to 3 nights there riding the local trains north out of inverness. Then return by train to preston.

Any idea what the bus from Fort William to Inverness costs and does it need to be booked? I assume it would be an air conditioned long distance coach?

As for getting off at 4.30am at preston. Its a stupid O clock time. But I am staying at a private home outside the town so can arrive and depart anytime subject to bus connections or a taxi. But the ride into london and back out seems an interesting option.

What trains do they use on Inverness to Wick line? Locomotive Hauled? Railcars? Are there any photos of them online?

In the cornwell area what are good rail journeys other
than the main line train to and from London? Also does the mainline train to Cornwell travel via the Brunel Corridor through Bristol?

The Welsh area I would probably look at overnighting somewhere up there so as to have more time to explore the tourist railways. Also to avoid another stupid O clock start!

As for travelling on the Carlisle to Settle line and between Preston and Docaster through the mountains it seems there are too many different ways to do it? Is there any one route that is highly recommended?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You don't have to book the coach to Inverness (it is indeed a coach) but it can be full so it is not a bad idea to do so.

 

[30907]

There is also a coach Ft Wm to Kyle; both routes are operated by Scottish Citylink
http://www.citylink.co.uk/index.php

If you go up to Thurso, consider coming back on the coach which takes the coast road soith from Wick, just for variety.

Trains north of Inverness are always class 158, IME well looked after. Pix via Google Images! (FYI there are very few true loco hauled trains in the UK, though the long distance Intercity routes are operated by fixed formation trains, some with separate power cars.)

Cornwall - day trains take the direct route through Westbury to Taunton, but you can go via Bath and Bristol very easily with 1-2 changes. The sleeper goes whichever way isn't blocked by overnight track work!
In Cornwall the short coastal branches to Looe and St Ives have the best scenery and are worth visiting. The Plymouth-Gunnislake line is also very good, but just for the ride.
North Wales - an overnight is sensible, Caernarfon is more interesting than Porthmadog, but much more touristy, but really it depends on what fits your plans.

Settle and Carlisle - from Preston I would go Lancaster-Hellifield-Carlisle-Preston or vv if the timetable allowed.

Preston-Doncaster
Via Burnley and Leeds would be least crowded. Via Manchester (change) and Leeds is most frequent but very busy. Via Manchester and Sheffield is another option. None is fast, all have decent scenery through the Pennines (locals would be amused to hear them called mountains BTW).

 

[thaitransit]

I know of the class 158 DMUs. They are 2nd class aircon units with no buffet car or sleeping accommodation. I spent almost 24 hours on one from Bangkok to Northern Thailand and back. Very fast units max 120kph if I recall. Which makes them one of the fastest trains on the thai railway system. They are not too bad on trips under 6 hours provided the aircon hasn't failed resulting in a mega humid sauna inside!

Not a big fan of long distance bus travel. Normally slower than train often on poor roads resulting in rough trip. But will do it if much shorter than train just to save time or where no train runs. Do long distance bus routes typically use coaches with on board toilets? Or do they rely on stopping at remote roadhouses for a toilet stop?

So it seems there are two or 3 route to cornwell ex London. That would avoid bus replacement for trackwork which is good news. I would not want to sit up overnight on a coach not nice! How common is it to cop buses replace trains in the UK? Eg London to Preston etc

Looks like cornwell is worth a couple of nights in a hotel what would be the best town to base yourself for ease of exploring the branch lines?

Preston to Doncaster least busy route is best as better chance of getting a seat reservation at last minute. What train types do they use on these routes?

I was under the impression that there was a large mountain range between Preston and Doncaster where it was a long slow twisting single track line up to a long summit tunnel and similar but steep decent down the otherside. With trips taking around 8 hours to complete. I was thinking steep grades on the route like 1 in 30 most of the way etc. Hence the expectation of spectacular views .

As for locomotive hauled trains I would have thought most long distance trains were diesel locomotive and carriage sets. Are most lines operating DMU sets? Are the sleeper trains diesel locomotive hauled?

 

[tony_mac]

Buses do replace trains not regularly, but reasonably often. This is more likely for a short trip than something like Preston to London. They would normally be announced far enough in advance to avoid them anyway.
You don't seem to have a good grasp of the geography of England - for instance the highest station (on the Settle - Carlisle line) has an altitude of 350m. Although the scenery is nice, there are no long stretches through twisting mountain ranges. You can easily get an idea of distances, travel times, routes, and scenery from Google maps.

There are some long-distance locomotive hauled trains (including the sleepers), but many are DMU or electric.

 

[30907]

You might also want to look at some specimen train times alongside a map!

Preston to Leeds direct on a class 158 is a couple of hours.
Going via Manchester to Leeds you get a rather more modern class 185, marginally more comfortable and possibly with a catering trolley. Quite what will be operating Preston to Manchester in Autumn 2019 I'm not sure, but the routes should finally be electrified anyway...

As I said previously, traditional loco hauled trains have generally given way to fixed formations, first with power cars (think XPT) but increasingly with power distributed through the train. The same is true all over Western Europe incidentally, sleepers being an exception.

The Scottish sleepers are electric hauled as far as Edinburgh/Glasgow, and will be brand new by autumn 2019. The Cornish one is diesel throughout, and the cars are older but AFAIK in good nick.

If you need an overnight stop in Cornwall, St Ives can be pricy even out of season, Truro is pretty central, Looe is nice, Plymouth is functional (having been bombed flat last century...).

 

[james60059]

We don't really have extreme weather.

Unless you believe what the Daily Mail says

 

[rebmcr]

Unless you believe what the Daily Mail says

Not a word!

 

[thaitransit]

I didn't realise that these long distance lines were electrified. I though electric trains only ran in London with Diesel trains everywhere else. Must have cost the UK billions to electrify regional areas. I assume alot of the electrification was for cargo trains.

I am very familiar with the XPT and its onboard offerings. If the UK version is the same then great as I love there 1st class compartments in Car A. Especially as one often gets it to yourself and you can lock the door. A very relaxing way to travel!

Just for interest sake the XPT sets in NSW Australia will be replaced in 2021 most likely with diesel tilt trains similar to what Queensland Rail uses but on standard guage1435mm rather than narrow guage 1067mm.

On the issue of rail guage. What track guage is used in the UK? Do all lines use the same guage or is it just a varied as in Australia with every city doing there own thing.

 

[PeterC]

Apart from heritage lines amd sleepers all UK rail accomodation is in open saloons.

There are no remaining narrow guage lines apart from heritage lines and maybe a handful on industrial sites. Main line guages were standardised in the nineteenth century and even trams are standard guage. The one exception is the 4foot guage Glasgow Subway.

Electrification is primarily for passenger trains, a lot of freight on electrified lines is still diesel hauled to avoid delays and costs of changing traction.

 

[70014IronDuke]

One extremely scenic route which hasn't been mentioned is the Lancaster-Barrow-Carlisle route (easily accessible from Preston). Slow, but if you stop halfway round at Ravenglass you can ride into the hills on a splendid Narrow Gauge steam train. You can also return by the quick route, direct from Carlisle to Preston.

I have to say, D841 has a point here. I was thinking of sending you exactly the same advice. Frankly, seeing that you are based at Preston, I would say this gives you far more effective 'bang for your buck' (at least in terms of time consumed) than meandering off to the Far North Line - although, I suppose, the latter is a bigger "Guess what I did on my trip" kind of chest thumping achievement. And it's true, it will add a lot of miles to your travels.

EDIT - and if you go there before they disappear, you can still get classic 1960s loco-hauled trains with a Class 37 at the head.

You should also not forget you can access the Settle and Carlisle from Preston via Lancaster - Carnforth - Hellifield. (ie avoiding Leeds).

From Doncaster, a nice circuit is Doncaster-Lincoln-Nottingham-Sheffield-Doncaster, which visits three contrasting and pleasant cities.

Another interesting piece of advice.