Vision bus - students fall from upper deck window.

[mayneway]

Three children have fallen from the window of the double decker Vision bus on the outskirts of Wigan.

All three have ‘serious injuries’ after the fall.

Link from the article below:

Three high school children have suffered 'potentially serious' injuries after falling from a window on the top deck of a school bus tonight (Wednesday, January 7).

Emergency services were called to the incident on Bolton Road in Ashton-in-Makerfield.

The road was initially closed and the air ambulance was called to the scene.

Inspector Simon Barrie of the Wigan District said: “This is a serious incident that will cause disruption, our priority is to make sure the children get the treatment they need in hospital. Thankfully we don’t believe their injuries are life-threatening.

“This does appear to be an unfortunate accident at this time but we will be making enquiries as to the circumstances and liaising with
partners.”

Live: Horror as three schoolchildren fall from window of double decker bus

The road was closed and the air ambulance was called to the scene

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[Class 466]

Some school children have fell from a side window on a Vision bus school service this afternoon.

Live: Horror as three schoolchildren fall from window of double decker bus

The road was closed and the air ambulance was called to the scene

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Looks like a Stagecoach bus based off the live reporting… Yet in other photos posted elsewhere it’s most definitely a Vision Bus decker in their livery - so no idea why MEN have flooded their live feed with an unrelated Enviro 400

 

[mayneway]

Looks like a Stagecoach bus based off the live reporting… Yet in other photos posted elsewhere it’s most definitely a Vision Bus decker in their livery - so no idea why MEN have flooded their live feed with an unrelated Enviro 400

There was a Little Hulton E400 within the cordon, apparently it was travelling behind the vision bus, but it’s the vision bus where the window fell out. Three children fell and are seriously injured.

 

[M60lad]

I'm not saying your wrong Mayneway but what would a Sharston E400 be doing well out of its normal operating area also if it was a standard E400 then surely it would have been a E400 from Little Hulton Depot/Outstation.

 

[mayneway]

I'm not saying your wrong Mayneway but what would a Sharston E400 be doing well out of its normal operating area also if it was a standard E400 then surely it would have been a E400 from Little Hulton Depot/Outstation.

Sorry it was a slip of the mind it was a little Hulton bus not a Sharston bus. Hence the Stagecoach fleetnumber.

 

[mangad]

The information on this story seems rather vague - just that they "fell" out of a window? BBC News have a story basically saying "stay in seats when on top deck of the bus" which seems to imply potentially pupils messing around with the top deck emergency exit, rather than a window falling out. But we'll see.

Specifically, from the BBC News article:

St Edmund Arrowsmith Catholic High urged parents to "please reinforce our message in school that pupils must sit in a seat for their journey if they choose to use the top deck of a bus".

 

[JGurney]

Accordingly to the BBC three "children or"young people" have been injured through falling from a window from the upper deck of a bus. This occurred in Bolton Road, in Ashton-in-Makerfield, Greater Manchester at approx. 16:00 yesterday.

The report does not clarify how this happened e.g. whether the whole window fell out, creating a large enough opening.

Report:
BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qpj275ldlo.amp
Three children fall from window of double-decker bus

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Could they have been fooling around with the emergency exit window?

 

[D1511]

I heard this yesterday, and wondered how on earth it could have happened, unless they were larking about and somehow took the whole pane out of its housing. I hope it hasn't just fallen out, although if it had, I don't see how three kids would have fallen out afterwards. I guess the details will emerge in time......

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If it had simply fallen out, I suspect it would have been all over the news by now with operators of the same type of bus having to temporarily ground their fleets for checks, which I imagine would cause a lot of disruption even if only for a couple of hours?

 

[Tim33160]

"Three high school pupils fall through window of the top deck of one of Vision Buses Weds evening. Three young people have fallen from a top floor side window of a school bus and have been taken to Mcr Children's Hospital"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qpj275ldlo

picture of broken window: https://x.com/Claire_journo/status/2009026024185659861/photo/1

Bus involved = Vision Bus DAF DB300 Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 LJ60AXK; was A-London DW317; working school 950 Hindley Green
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/three-children-seriously-injured-after-33186761

(Bee Network yellow E400 in some photos is a Stagecoach schoolbus from Little Hulton ; not involved – it was following the Vision Bus but caught in the cordon)

 

[D1511]

Larking about it is then.......

 

[ChrisPJ]

Larking about it is then.......

Comments on social media indicate that about 8 kids were engaging in a “pile on” against the window, little wonder the gasket gave way and glass fell to the floor closely followed by three of the passengers.

For example: https://www.facebook.com/share/14SnfcZ1LSP/?mibextid=wwXIfr - Manchester Evening News including a video in the comments.

Interesting to know if any cctv backs that up

EDITED AT 17.25 TO INCLUDE THE SOURCE

 

[mayneway]

The headteacher has confirmed in a letter to parents that students must be seated on the upper deck and that indications suggest there was a ‘disturbance’ involving around 8 students.

The great Andy Burnham has also commented in the Manchester Evening News, saying ‘it’s a serious incident, but it’s not a Bee Network branded service’.
That suggests it’s a bee network school service that doesn’t use bee network branded buses rather than a closed door contract.

 

[Merle Haggard]

If it had simply fallen out, I suspect it would have been all over the news by now with operators of the same type of bus having to temporarily ground their fleets for checks, which I imagine would cause a lot of disruption even if only for a couple of hours?

Schoolchildren have contrived to push out an upper deck side window on one of First Northampton's Alexander bodied Volvos. I was on an immediately following Stagecoach service which was delayed by the resulting police attendance who vetted the passengers before allowing them on the bus I was on. From conversation it semed not to have been the first time this had happened. The motive wasn't clear - it was on an afternoon journey from school.

Rubber section mounted bus windows are designed to be removable but not usually without some means of prising the section to get a start. However, it seemed that the Alexander design just requires a strong push at a corner - possibly several teenagers in concert. The window obviously broke when it hit then road, but it didn't require to be broken to be removed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rubber section mounted bus windows are designed to be removable but not usually without some means of prising the section to get a start. However, it seemed that the Alexander design just requires a strong push at a corner - possibly several teenagers in concert. The window obviously broke when it hit then road, but it didn't require to be broken to be removed.

A large single glazed window will distort noticeably if you push it hard in the middle. Not entirely surprising that you might be able to do this enough to push it out of its frame. Yet another case for double glazing which is very rigid?

 

[mayneway]

A large single glazed window will distort noticeably if you push it hard in the middle. Not entirely surprising that you might be able to do this enough to push it out of its frame. Yet another case for double glazing which is very rigid?

Seen a lot of comments online saying the bus company’s at fault etc etc but had these kids been sat down and the window just dropped out they wouldn’t have ended up on the floor outside. Even if they were stood in the isle it’s unlikely they would have fallen. Yes they are someone’s little angels but in this case the kids are fault!

 

[Nammer]

Totally agree. Sadly we are in a society where a fair few parents don't or won't take responsibility for their little darlings actions anymore, they can do no wrong in their eyes!

 

[Acathater]

Yet another case for double glazing which is very rigid?

then you may not be able to break the window or push it out in an emergency

it would help stop all those damn rackety shaky vibrations though....bonded rigid windows make buses far nicer to ride in compared with gasketed ones

 

[Ballyheigue]

If I were the Vision Bus owner, regardless of what the law says I'd be putting out CCTV video here there and everywhere with the words 'this is what happened to your brainless wonders, clearly not our fault'. Shut's up the idiot blame everyone but the kid brigade that's for sure!

 

[mayneway]

If I were the Vision Bus owner, regardless of what the law says I'd be putting out CCTV video here there and everywhere with the words 'this is what happened to your brainless wonders, clearly not our fault'. Shut's up the idiot blame everyone but the kid brigade that's for sure!

No real need too. It’s actually the head teacher of the school who’s spoken out and pointed the blame directly at the school kids. Fair play to him.

It’s pretty poor of Andy Burnham to distance himself and the bee network from it when actually the service is run on behalf of the Bee Network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

then you may not be able to break the window or push it out in an emergency

it would help stop all those damn rackety shaky vibrations though....bonded rigid windows make buses far nicer to ride in compared with gasketed ones

Absolutely, and it mostly stops steaming up too.

 

[mattb7tl]

Over the past year or so a lot of videos have popped up on social media of windows falling out of gasket vehicles. Gasket buses no longer appear to be manufactured and the modern version of gasket (quick release) appears to be discontinued.

Rowdy kids or not windows should perhaps not be attached to cheap tacky rubber!

 

[GusB]

Over the past year or so a lot of videos have popped up on social media of windows falling out of gasket vehicles. Gasket buses no longer appear to be manufactured and the modern version of gasket (quick release) appears to be discontinued.

Rowdy kids or not windows should perhaps not be attached to cheap tacky rubber!

Would you mind supplying some links to these social media videos that depict windows falling out of "gasket vehicles"? I've travelled on buses and coaches with both gasket- and bonded-glazed windows for decades and I've never once encountered an issue with either type.

That's not to say that there have never been any instances of windows falling out. As an example, in the early 1980s my local company was supplied with a batch of ECW-bodied Leyland Olympians that had hoppers in the upper deck front windows but:

* By the time it came to Buckie the upper deck front hopper windows had been replaced by single glass windows - apparently they were prone to falling out, not something you wanted when carrying school pupils

If, as has been suggested (without any sources), the cause was a "pile-up" of kids against a window, what can you do? You can legislate as much as you like but kids will be kids.



* Peter Findlay, "The Buses of Northern Scottish" p52

 

[mattb7tl]

Would you mind supplying some links to these social media videos that depict windows falling out of "gasket vehicles"? I've travelled on buses and coaches with both gasket- and bonded-glazed windows for decades and I've never once encountered an issue with either type.

A core part of the vehicle is held by flimsy exposed rubber that is continually subject to the sun, weathering, temperature cycles, and physical disturbance during maintenance. Over time this makes retention increasingly condition dependent.

By comparison, bonded glazing retains the glass via a structural adhesive bond that is largely protected from the elements out of the factory bonded glazing is capable of lasting the full service life of a bus, whereas gasket glazing will require substantially more frequent inspections, maintenance, and replacements over time, introducing substantially more opportunities for degradation or poor replacements.

Why would you introduce the opportunity for more human error (and vandalism due to exposed rubber) when you could specify a bus that is built to last?

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVG552/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVtPy5/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVEhGQ/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVC298/

 

[Leyland Bus]

I'm guessing by your response that you don't work in engineering or on buses at all? As what you have written is frankly nonsense... For a start bonded glazing is not infallible. The bond is, essentially, a rubber like glue which degrades over time. This causes the windows to come loose (far more often than gasket windows) also the metal they are bonded too will deteriorate, causing the bonding to come away from the body. I have had a similar experience whilst out on schools when I was in York. Though thankfully it was downstairs, a smaller window and no one fell out. But do you know what? It was a gasket window and the rubber never moved. The glass smashed when a kid was thrown against it during a fight...

Please try not to justify such things as a manufacturing issue. They happen. Nothing will stop such things bar strapping the kids in so they can't move

 

[johncrossley]

then you may not be able to break the window or push it out in an emergency

Double-glazing is standard on trains and coaches and very common on buses abroad. Windows can still be broken in an emergency. If it was unsafe double-glazing wouldn't be used.

 

[Mwanesh]

Kids know drivers cant do anything.

 

[Snow1964]

If, as has been suggested (without any sources), the cause was a "pile-up" of kids against a window, what can you do? You can legislate as much as you like but kids will be kids.

The only real sanction is failure to adhere to conditions of carriage and withdraw their season tickets.

Of course it will hurt their parents, or perhaps the kids themselves if parents pawn their phones to cover cost of alternative transport, until they have leant their lesson.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

A core part of the vehicle is held by flimsy exposed rubber that is continually subject to the sun, weathering, temperature cycles, and physical disturbance during maintenance. Over time this makes retention increasingly condition dependent.

By comparison, bonded glazing retains the glass via a structural adhesive bond that is largely protected from the elements out of the factory bonded glazing is capable of lasting the full service life of a bus, whereas gasket glazing will require substantially more frequent inspections, maintenance, and replacements over time, introducing substantially more opportunities for degradation or poor replacements.

Why would you introduce the opportunity for more human error (and vandalism due to exposed rubber) when you could specify a bus that is built to last?

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVG552/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVtPy5/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVEhGQ/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRrVC298/

Because broken glass (either accidentally or deliberately) is far, far more common than any issue with the rubbers and gasket glazing can be replaced in minutes but bonding takes a day as you need the bond to set before the bus can be used. There are reasons to go for bonding (improved quality in the specification and I think some manufacturers now almost make the glazing somewhat structural) but concerns over the safety of the window rubbers just isn't one of them. I don't think any operator I have worked for in over 20 years has ever had a window fall out, we have had too many broken windows to count, one of the few I had direct knowledge of was a school bus when I was at school and that was a result of deliberate vandalism by the students.