Virgin + wcml daily fiascos

[j0hn0]

Mornin all

I have recently started work in london and am frankly appalled by the service i have to endure from virgin every day. I am not joking when I say at least one of my trains is late every single day.

In 2 weeks we have
A been diverted to slow lines whilst other fast services fly past, losing me 40 mins out of my day
B diverted by northampton
C slow trains diverted onto fast lines
D signalling problems
E yesterday the driver hit an 'object' so we had to stop whilst the train was checked
F some services dont tilt (this is the only enjoyable part of the journey)
G the 'free' wireless is worse than useless when more than one person using it
H seats are too narrow for my wide shoulders
I crowded bham trains

Is this value for money at 650 a month?

This, is exactly why we need a completely new and seperate high speed line so that long distance services are not hindered by every tiny little thing on the way.

Also hoping virgin do not get a renewal

Anyone else experience this every day?

Rant over

 

[Intermodal]

A been diverted to slow lines whilst other fast services fly past, losing me 40 mins out of my day
B diverted by northampton
C slow trains diverted onto fast lines
D signalling problems
E yesterday the driver hit an 'object' so we had to stop whilst the train was checked

I hate to nitpick, but the items I've quoted could not possibly be the direct fault of Virgin! They would happen with any train operator.

 

[dk1]

I must use a different WCML. Apart from the occasional problems which you get on any railway & must accept, i have hardly any problems these days. Virgin staff are great, usually get a seat & mostly arrive on time & often early.

 

[tbtc]

I hate to nitpick, but the items I've quoted could not possibly be the direct fault of Virgin! They would happen with any train operator.

Maybe Virgin should swerve to hit objects on the line and ignore signal problems?

As ever, people blame the TOC, regardless of the faults. There may be some valid points in the initial list, but blaming VIrgin for hitting something on the line devalues them.

Also, "some trains don't tilt"? If it wasn't for Virgin then *no* trains would tilt

 

[dk1]

Also the Birmingham route has & always will suffer more than most due to the crowded mainly 2-track route across the West Midlands. Vandalism on the Coventry section has been a problem too. In contrast the Manchesters now seem to operate like clockwork. Wi-Fi i only use occasionally but for food, drink, frequency & speed give me Virgin trains anyday.

 

[Failed Unit]

but for food, drink, frequency & speed give me Virgin trains anyday.

Lol. But only if you dont have a credit card or the exact money. Unlike decent inter-city operators. Lights match and runs.

 

[Geezertronic]

I too must use a different Virgin Trains and WCML to the OP since I have not been delayed once this year as a result of Virgin Trains - I do BHI-EUS and return so would count myself in the same boat as the OP.

Since the beginning of the year:

A been diverted to slow lines whilst other fast services fly past, losing me 40 mins out of my day

This happened to me on a train into Euston because of signalling issues between Milton Keynes Central and Watford on the up fast line. The down fast was ok and trains were indeed flying past. This is not the fault of Virgin Trains.

B diverted by northampton

Not had this one. Would be interesting to find out when. Again, not the fault of VT but more likely a line issue.

C slow trains diverted onto fast lines

When on the train, since I cannot see in front or behind me it's difficult to determine whether this happened or not, but probably for the same reasons as A or B - not the fault of VT

D signalling problems

Again not the fault of VT - there's a pattern occuring here...

E yesterday the driver hit an 'object' so we had to stop whilst the train was checked

Sod it, lets carry on our journey and hope it wasn't a person. Sounds like the driver did the right thing - I cannot see a problem here

F some services dont tilt (this is the only enjoyable part of the journey)

So? The OP is starting to nit pick here...

G the 'free' wireless is worse than useless when more than one person using it

Works fine on my laptop, crap on my iPhone. It's a free service, if you were paying for it I could understand your point

H seats are too narrow for my wide shoulders

A common complaint of the 390s and probably the first decent point out of all of the above

I crowded bham trains

There's always seats available on the 0700, 0720 & 0741 services I catch from BHI and the 1843, 1903, 1923 & 1943 services I use from EUS. People cannot usually be bothered to find them even when the Train Manager announces that Coach G is declassified.

This, is exactly why we need a completely new and seperate high speed line so that long distance services are not hindered by every tiny little thing on the way.

Out of your points, I can only see point H as a genuine problem which has been discussed to death on here. Your points are certainly not the reason for HS2 as lineside problems, signalling problems (in cab in the case of HS2), objects on the line etc... could happen on a new line anyway

Also hoping virgin do not get a renewal

If you use your points above as a reason, they could all occur with any potential TOC. The seats are not going to get wider if VT do not get renewed?

Anyone else experience this every day?

No

 

[Ibex]

The morning Virgin were being diverted via Northampton was because of a severely broken rail at Hillmorton Junction, and it was fixed in a matter of hours.

 

[rail-britain]

Is this value for money at 650 a month?

Between where and Euston?
I regularly travel between Glasgow and Euston, time keeping is very good, out of 100 trains typically three will be between 20 and 60 minutes late, and if I was driving there was no way I could guarantee that accuracy

I do agree the WiFi is problematic, but it is a basic system so tunnels and cuttings affect reception
Equally, between Lancaster and Penrith, there is virtually no reception

 

[Ticket Man]

E yesterday the driver hit an 'object' so we had to stop whilst the train was checked

This one struck me (no pun intended) as the most over-the-top issue

What would you have had the driver do, plough on regardless of if any damage that may have happened to the set. Say if real damage had been done to the train and resulted in an accident with possible injury or death to members of the public.

Are you really suggesting that Virgin should put service over safety? :-?

 

[Geezertronic]

The morning Virgin were being diverted via Northampton was because of a severely broken rail at Hillmorton Junction, and it was fixed in a matter of hours.

How dare they. They should have queued them up until the rail was fixed

 

[chris89]

Can't see how you can blame Virgin for any off those problems at all. Many services from New street are always busy.

When i've traveled on the WCML From Wolverhampton to Edinburgh, train has pretty much always been on time or slightly early.

Only a few times a few minutes late but thats due to weather, or on my last trip (Monday) Had to come to a quick stop after Oxemhome i believe due to sheep on the line, and again just after passing through Penkridge had to come to a stop due to signal failure.

As people have said being put on the slow lines is for numerous reasons, and reason for the driver to stop is just sense really, as if my one on monday didn't stop, and hit a sheep some damage would have been done and would have delayed my journey a lot more.

Also for the wireless yes the signal did drop a few times, but was resonably quick on the WCML, and as someone else said you don't get a strong signal at all between Lancaster and Penrith

Personally i would prefer Virgin to re-get the contract.

Chris

 

[RichW1]

Would it be really tough to install an an extra line west of Rugby does anyone know? I'm assuming yes or they'd have done it already?

 

[j0hn0]

Clearly none of you read the title, virgin AND wcml fiascos!

You are all also assuming that i think that these things dont happen.

Reading the conclusion, you would ve noticed that this is a thread that advocates building new lines because the old ones are so rubbish and prone to any number of instances.

The reason i dislike virgin is that they charge 650 a month for this, plus 4.50 a day for car park.

No other toc charges this much for so little. Yes they're in the same boat re NR but come on, 650 a month for this is a freakin rip off.

If you think this is value for money then there is something wrong with you

And fyi, i alternate between brum, liv and man trains giving me more f an overall view than someone who ALWAYS gets the brum train

 

[Ferret]

Clearly none of you read the title, virgin AND wcml fiascos!

You are all also assuming that i think that these things dont happen.

Reading the conclusion, you would ve noticed that this is a thread that advocates building new lines because the old ones are so rubbish and prone to any number of instances.

The reason i dislike virgin is that they charge 650 a month for this, plus 4.50 a day for car park.

No other toc charges this much for so little. Yes they're in the same boat re NR but come on, 650 a month for this is a freakin rip off.

If you think this is value for money then there is something wrong with you

And fyi, i alternate between brum, liv and man trains giving me more f an overall view than someone who ALWAYS gets the brum train

I caught the 0750 off Brum this morning to go to Euston, then on to London City. I was comfortable enough to fall asleep leaving Rugby and wake up arriving at Euston. The train was on time, the staff good and the train tilted.

As for 650 quid being a rip off - do me a comparison between road and rail, and then put a figure on the opportunity cost of having to drive for 2 hours each way (non-productive time) versus being able to work each way if you need to.

 

[Mike395]

To be fair, nowhere in your original post does it state that anyone but Virgin are to blame for any of your points, so I don't see anything wrong with that assumption in the following posts :P

Also, implying they can't read isn't on really - the title is usually just an indicator on what the topic is about, not to be taken as part of the information.

I think you're just nitpicking in order to have a moan tbh, Virgin's service every time I've used it has been great - and like someone else said, would you rather be diverted via Northampton or sit in a queue of trains for an hour or two

 

[Ticket Man]

The reason i dislike virgin is that they charge 650 a month for this, plus 4.50 a day for car park.

No other toc charges this much for so little. Yes they're in the same boat re NR but come on, 650 a month for this is a freakin rip off.

If you think this is value for money then there is something wrong with you

well according to passenger focus, their spring survey suggests otherwise

Carried out twice a year by rail watchdog Passenger Focus, the National Passenger Survey is a key marker of train operating companies’ performance.

For the second survey in a row, passengers gave Virgin Trains the highest rating of any long-distance franchise operator when asked about how satisfied they were with their overall journey - 90% of those questioned rated Virgin Trains as ‘satisfactory’ or ‘good’.

For the sixth survey in a row, passengers rated Virgin Trains as offering the best value-for-money of any long-distance franchise operator - 63% of those questioned rated Virgin Trains as ‘satisfactory’ or ’good’.

Whilst I agree that 63% is not a target to aim for and that there is room for improvement.

Is there something wrong with 63% of virgin passengers
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Note: the results above were for spring 2010, autumn 2010 shows virgin as receiving 65% in value for money

 

[Geezertronic]

Clearly none of you read the title, virgin AND wcml fiascos!

Then put some blame on NR then...

Reading the conclusion, you would ve noticed that this is a thread that advocates building new lines because the old ones are so rubbish and prone to any number of instances.

The WCML is not rubbish, just a busy line. I would have said the ECML suffers more problems (especially with OHLE) from what people post on here

The reason i dislike virgin is that they charge 650 a month for this, plus 4.50 a day for car park.

No other toc charges this much for so little. Yes they're in the same boat re NR but come on, 650 a month for this is a freakin rip off.

If you think this is value for money then there is something wrong with you

I pay £8 for car parking at BHI and I very much doubt a new TOC would come in and slash prices as that would make no business sense. For me to drive to London and park, the price is comparable with an Advance ticket each way. £650 a month works out to be about £32.50 a day (based on 20 working days in a month). I would like to see you do a return trip by car for that amount plus parking and congestion charge (if applicable)

And fyi, i alternate between brum, liv and man trains giving me more f an overall view than someone who ALWAYS gets the brum train

I take it that was aimed at me. At the end of the day it doesn't matter because south of Rugby, we all use the same piece of tracks no matter where you came from. Most of my outward delays have been because of problems at Birmingham New Street or between New Street and Wolves, clearly not the fault of VT

 

[Kneedown]

Mornin all

I have recently started work in london and am frankly appalled by the service i have to endure from virgin every day. I am not joking when I say at least one of my trains is late every single day.

In 2 weeks we have
A been diverted to slow lines whilst other fast services fly past, losing me 40 mins out of my day
B diverted by northampton
C slow trains diverted onto fast lines
D signalling problems
E yesterday the driver hit an 'object' so we had to stop whilst the train was checked
F some services dont tilt (this is the only enjoyable part of the journey)
G the 'free' wireless is worse than useless when more than one person using it
H seats are too narrow for my wide shoulders
I crowded bham trains

Is this value for money at 650 a month?

This, is exactly why we need a completely new and seperate high speed line so that long distance services are not hindered by every tiny little thing on the way.

Also hoping virgin do not get a renewal

Anyone else experience this every day?

Rant over

Nothing here that we don't have regularly here on EMT, and other TOC's every day of the week.

 

[tbtc]

Clearly none of you read the title, virgin AND wcml fiascos!

Looking at your original post, you seem to be blaming Virgin (not Network Rail, not a combination of Network Rail and Virgin, just Virgin) for the following

I have recently started work in london and am frankly appalled by the service i have to endure from virgin every day. I am not joking when I say at least one of my trains is late every single day.

In 2 weeks we have
A been diverted to slow lines whilst other fast services fly past, losing me 40 mins out of my day
B diverted by northampton
C slow trains diverted onto fast lines
D signalling problems
E yesterday the driver hit an 'object' so we had to stop whilst the train was checked

...hoping virgin do not get a renewal

If the trains are diverted onto the slow lines, the signals have problems and the is an "object" on the line, exactly which of those is sufficient for you to hope Virgin do not get a renewal? Because, from where I'm sitting, you seem to be blaming Virgin for everything, when the only *real* problems you seem to have with them are trivial (the free wifi doesn't always work perfectly? surely that's reason to lose a multi-million pound contract?)...

 

[groucho]

I find it annoying when my Virgin train to Euston starts in Manchester, but is delayed due to waiting for staff to arrive eg train manager from another service. The other week this was over 30 minutes delay !

The TOCs and Network Rail are as bad as each other, eg TOCS claiming delays\compensation from NR for suicides that caused signalling issues or track possesions, hardly morally right is it.

 

[rail-britain]

This is part of the issue
The passenger will blame Virgin Trains for any and all service failures, as that is the TOC they are travelling on

However, swapping between Fast and Slow lines usually only happens when you travel on the Voyager (so that the Pendelino with similar departure time can pass) or to divert via Northampton

A diversion via Northampton could be a variety of reasons
A signalling failure is the most common reason, Network Rail may be at fault, but again the passenger will blame Virgin Trains

At least there is a diversion route that can be used, rather than a complete blockade or suspension of service!

 

[Ticket Man]

I find it annoying when my Virgin train to Euston starts in Manchester, but is delayed due to waiting for staff to arrive eg train manager from another service. The other week this was over 30 minutes delay !

again this could be due to a crew being delayed due to a line problem or diversion. From experience once a line problem causes delays of over 20 minutes to in bound service, all the diagrammed working goes to pot. Putting people in the right place during times of disruption is no easy feat

From what i see here most of the disruption seems to come from line and signalling issues.

I do like the delay due to an unmanned signal box. I can just see a signal man sitting at home thinking "i swear im supposed to be somewhere"

 

[rail-britain]

£4.50 for a days parking is relatively cheap, compared to some car parks in Britain!
Equally, you may be able to obtain a season discount or if you are prepared to park elsewhere cheaper or even free

A good example is Stirling
The station car park is relatively cheap, compared to the private car park on the other side of the road
A short walk away there is free parking

 

[Geezertronic]

However, swapping between Fast and Slow lines usually only happens when you travel on the Voyager (so that the Pendelino with similar departure time can pass) or to divert via Northampton

Do you have an example of this happening in normal service (diversions excluded)? I've never known any of the Wales bound Voyagers being overtaken by a 390? Catching the 1903 ex Euston, when we stop at Rugby we are usually passed by the 1907 to Liverpool and sometimes the 1910 to Holyhead. Since the next departure would be the 1920 Manchester train, I don't understand what would want to overtake a 221, especially since their speeds are comparable on the WCML South.

Never known it when a Voyager has replaced a 390 either so an example in normal service would be great.

 

[dk1]

Lol. But only if you dont have a credit card or the exact money. Unlike decent inter-city operators. Lights match and runs.

Just carry cash, simples

 

[Mr Spock]

The reason i dislike virgin is that they charge 650 a month for this, plus 4.50 a day for car park.

No other toc charges this much for so little. Yes they're in the same boat re NR but come on, 650 a month for this is a freakin rip off.

If you think this is value for money then there is something wrong with you

And fyi, i alternate between brum, liv and man trains giving me more f an overall view than someone who ALWAYS gets the brum train

Market Harborough is a similar distance and the season ticket is £624 p.m.

As for car parking you can get a monthly at Rugby for £55 (so over 20 days that is £2.75 per day) whereas MH is £109 p.m.

 

[Bald Rick]

The reason i dislike virgin is that they charge 650 a month for this, plus 4.50 a day for car park.

No other toc charges this much for so little. Yes they're in the same boat re NR but come on, 650 a month for this is a freakin rip off.

Gosh that's terrible. Makes those of us who pay £270/month and £7/day parking for the privilege of standing in someone's armpit for the 20 miles from St Albans to London feel genuinely grateful. Having a chance of a seat and free wi-fi must be such a chore.

 

[Ticket Man]

Gosh that's terrible. Makes those of us who pay £270/month and £7/day parking for the privilege of standing in someone's armpit for the 20 miles from St Albans to London feel genuinely grateful. Having a chance of a seat and free wi-fi must be such a chore.

exactly, or the poor people who slog in and out of paddington and waterloo.

feel for ya rick

 

[Luke Painter]

This is not the fault of Virgin Trains.

We are virgin's direct clients. They should take responsibility for the failure of their services. If it's caused by a failure in a service that they pay a third party for then they should push the cost of their failure to their clients onto that third party (probably network rail in many instances, but in the instance of vandalism they have to accept that as a cost of running a business and push the cost to their insurers) and not to their clients.

Not had this one. Would be interesting to find out when. Again, not the fault of VT but more likely a line issue.

Had this on a few occasions. I understand the necessity but again, Virgin should take responsibility and push the cost to the third party when it is a failure of their service providers.

When on the train, since I cannot see in front or behind me it's difficult to determine whether this happened or not, but probably for the same reasons as A or B - not the fault of VT

I've also been diverted onto the slow tracks as the OP. Again, Virgin should take responsibility for the reasons mentioned above.

Again not the fault of VT - there's a pattern occuring here…

Regardless they should take responsibility as mentioned above. Why patronise with the pattern comment?

Sod it, lets carry on our journey and hope it wasn't a person. Sounds like the driver did the right thing - I cannot see a problem here

Safety is paramount. The driver did the right thing.

Works fine on my laptop, crap on my iPhone. It's a free service, if you were paying for it I could understand your point

I've had variable service even when I've 'paid for it'. I think if they advertise their service as providing WiFi you can should receive a decent service as their advertisement influences your decision to purchase one of their tickets in the first place. The only reason it's free at the moment is because Google are bank rolling it. Once they stop, you'll have to pay in SC again and the service provision will be the same because the infrastructure that provides it is the same and quite frankly isn't good enough. Not quite, but nearly as bad as the broadband pedlars who say they offer 8Mbps.

There's always seats available on the 0700, 0720 & 0741 services I catch from BHI and the 1843, 1903, 1923 & 1943 services I use from EUS. People cannot usually be bothered to find them even when the Train Manager announces that Coach G is declassified.

Not true. If there are network problems or cancellations you will struggle and these issues aren't that infrequent. I've experienced two within the last two weeks. Try the 18:43 Euston to Coventry (or even worse, the first off peak service) on a friday… and they don't always declassify, I've had two arguments with train managers over the last week for this very reason.

If you use your points above as a reason, they could all occur with any potential TOC. The seats are not going to get wider if VT do not get renewed?

Agreed, the capitalist ideal of competition between providers improving things for all falls flat in this context. Who do Virgin compete with on the WCML beyond Northampton? Not London Midland anymore. If I have to get in for 9 from Coventry then my only options are to move or to drive. What kind of competition is that? The timing of most trains prevents any kind of real alternative choice in rail travel providers. It seems to me that in this context a nationalised or subsidised rail system would make more sense. SNCF anybody?

Originally Posted by j0hn0 View Post
Anyone else experience this every day?
No

Somedays.