Virgin Trains Twitter "help" Advance Fare help question

[Shadow Cat]

So, I purchased an Advance ticket via the Virgin Train site for a ticket from Oxford to Haymarket using the following services:

XC : Oxford - York
LNER: York - Waverley
Scot Rail: Waverley - Haymarket

While none of these services used Virgin Trains directly, I used there twitter for help as I purchased the tickets from them.

I was getting worried that the connection to the Scot Rail part of the journey was going to be difficult as the LNER train was delayed by 10+ mins, leaving me only a few mins to find/get to the platform to catch the Scot Rail. I know there are a lot of Waverley to Haymarket trains, so I asked if my ticket was only valid with that connection with the following two replies:

Hi there, what type of ticket do you have? Just to make you aware you are travelling with @LNER on the second leg of your journey, not Virgin Trains West Coast. ^[name omitted]

[My reply: Advance ticket Oxford to Haymarket XC - LNER - Scotrail and I explained I purchased the ticket through them]

If you have an Advance ticket then I'm afraid you would need to make that connection, as your ticket won't be valid on a later service. ^[name omitted]

I'm just wondering if that is actually correct? If you miss a connection due to a delayed train then your advance ticket won't be valid on a later service.

I had to run from the VT platform, over the bridge, down to the platform and only made the train as the platform staff were indicating he wanted the train to close the doors. Something I /think/ I shouldn't need to do.

 

[superalbs]

No, that is complete rubbish, as long as you left enough time for connections (which using a through advance ticket, you would automatically).

What an absolutely preposterous suggestion, that you'd have to buy a new ticket because they delayed you. Pathetic!

 

[Shadow Cat]

No, that is complete rubbish, as long as you left enough time for connections (which using a through advance ticket, you would automatically).

What an absolutely preposterous suggestion, that you'd have to buy a new ticket because they delayed you. Pathetic!

I've always assumed my advance ticket would be valid for the service it was scheduled for and if there are any delays that means I would not be able to make that connection [safely?] it would be valid for the next service. I usually speak to a member of the information center when I've had delays and they have always advised me that my ticket would be valid.

The way Virgin Trains twitter have worded it, my ticket it is valid for that train, and that train only... what seems a little off

At what point, does having to run for the train count for it being a valid connection? It went from a reasonable 14 min connection, what meant I had time to relax, to a 3 min connection what was far more stress than it was worth. I should have just purchased a new ticket tbh

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've always assumed my advance ticket would be valid for the service it was scheduled for and if there are any delays that means I would not be able to make that connection [safely?] it would be valid for the next service. I usually speak to a member of the information center when I've had delays and they have always advised me that my ticket would be valid.

The way Virgin Trains twitter have worded it, my ticket it is valid for that train, and that train only... what seems a little off

At what point, does having to run for the train count for it being a valid connection? It went from a reasonable 14 min connection, what meant I had time to relax, to a 3 min connection what was far more stress than it was worth. I should have just purchased a new ticket tbh

If you are there at your origin station on time, you've upheld your side of the contract. It's not your responsibility to run to catch connections, and if you are delayed as a result of not running (running itself being often banned on stations for safety reasons!), you may be entitled to delay compensation, depending on the length (and sometimes cause) of the delay.

When delays or cancellations occur, Advance tickets - whether you are using one or several to make your journey - are valid on the next service(s) that comply with the route or company restriction on your ticket. And if it comes to the last train of the day (i.e. you'd be stranded if you complied with the route/company restriction), your ticket must be accepted on any route or company where you can reasonably be accommodated.

 

[Shadow Cat]

If you are there at your origin station on time, you've upheld your side of the contract. It's not your responsibility to run to catch connections, and if you are delayed as a result of not running (running itself being often banned on stations for safety reasons!), you may be entitled to delay compensation, depending on the length (and sometimes cause) of the delay.

When delays or cancellations occur, Advance tickets - whether you are using one or several to make your journey - are valid on the next service(s) that comply with the route or company restriction on your ticket. And if it comes to the last train of the day (i.e. you'd be stranded if you complied with the route/company restriction), your ticket must be accepted on any route or company where you can reasonably be accommodated.

Thanks for both of your replies. This is what I assumed and wish I had thought things through more on the day, stopped at the station and at least spoke to platform staff about this rather than making the connection.

 

[Deafdoggie]

What if the official connection time isn’t there anymore, as in this case, can you still claim delay repay if you choose to run?

 

[Kite159]

If the LNER service is late and you miss your booked connection to Haymarket, unless it is late at night there is plenty of options for the next service. In my experience it is extremely rare to get a ticket check in the short distance (only time I can recall was when I was on a 334).

You might even find if the LNER arrives on time you can catch an earlier service to Haymarket.

 

[yorkie]

[My reply: Advance ticket Oxford to Haymarket XC - LNER - Scotrail and I explained I purchased the ticket through them]
If you have an Advance ticket then I'm afraid you would need to make that connection, as your ticket won't be valid on a later service. ^[name omitted]

Unfortunately the Twitter teams at several train companies (including Virgin Trains, LNER and others) have a history of giving out incorrect information, and that is certainly the case here.

Your ticket is absolutely valid on later services if you miss the connection due to a delay.

Furthermore, if the a missed connection causes you to be 30+ minutes late into your destination, you are also entitled to claim Delay Repay compensation from the train company who caused the initial delay.

 

[Darandio]

Unfortunately LNER's Twitter team have a history of giving out incorrect information, and that is certainly the case here.

In this case the OP was speaking to Virgin Trains Twitter.

 

[yorkie]

In this case the OP was speaking to Virgin Trains Twitter.

OK my mistake with the name but the same principle applies. They're just as bad with the incorrect information, sadly.

 

[njamescouk]

this is the sort of thing that makes rail travel so horrible: the near certainty that a journey of more than an hour or so is going to involve threats of additional expense / prosecution / confrontation with officialdom. unless you buy a very expensive ticket of course...

 

[yorkie]

this is the sort of thing that makes rail travel so horrible: the near certainty that a journey of more than an hour or so is going to involve threats of additional expense / prosecution / confrontation with officialdom. unless you buy a very expensive ticket of course...

Such a risk exists even with a straightforward short journey on one train, especially if travelling on GWR from Paddington

A good retailer will back the customer up in the event of a dispute.

 

[Haywain]

this is the sort of thing that makes rail travel so horrible: the near certainty that a journey of more than an hour or so is going to involve threats of additional expense / prosecution / confrontation with officialdom. unless you buy a very expensive ticket of course...

That is a ridiculous statement. The vast majority of journeys undertaken on our railways, day in and day out, do so without any such threats, regardless of journey time.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

That is a ridiculous statement. The vast majority of journeys undertaken on our railways, day in and day out, do so without any such threats, regardless of journey time.

It is an exaggeration of the statistics perhaps. But that does not mean that nervous travellers will stop being anxious about their tickets! In my view it is just like the justice system - it is better to see 10 fare evaders get away with it than for 1 innocent ticket holder to be penalised in whatever way.

 

[yorkie]

The vast majority of journeys undertaken on our railways, day in and day out, do so without any such threats, regardless of journey time.

True but there are many instances of passengers being incorrectly told their tickets aren't valid. I am aware of numerous instances, sadly. It is true that the threat isn't great, but the threat of a problem was great enough to - rightly or wrongly - cause the original poster of this thread to seek reassurances from the retailer.

Rather than issue reassurances, the retailer informed the customer of a risk that they would have to pay more money if their train was delayed, which we all know is incorrect. But such people exist, on Twitter teams, helpdesks, gatelines, and - occasionally - in a position of power on trains too.

I know people who will refuse to buy cheaper tickets because of the worry of such threats, and will pay more money because they do not want confrontation. It's ridiculous that the rail industry has behaved in such a way that some people feel compelled to do this.

 

[Sleepy]

Quite honestly most TOC twitter operators have about as much tickets knowledge as most drivers - Nil !!

 

[yorkie]

Quite honestly most TOC twitter operators have about as much tickets knowledge as most drivers - Nil !!

But the first rule if asked something you don't know, is to ask someone who does, or look it up.

 

[robbeech]

I think it’s worth emailing VT linking to the Twitter conversation and politely suggesting that some of the staff are giving out this advice. If they don’t know it’s hsppening they can’t put it right.

 

[Haywain]

It is an exaggeration of the statistics perhaps. But that does not mean that nervous travellers will stop being anxious about their tickets! In my view it is just like the justice system - it is better to see 10 fare evaders get away with it than for 1 innocent ticket holder to be penalised in whatever way.

I am not suggesting that it doesn't happen but that it is a very small number in comparison to the overall number of journeys made.

 

[mailbyrail]

I'm a confident traveller with many years and miles behind me but I won't consider a journey these days needing two changes or advance tickets. Last but one time I did such a journey we were late into Preston and the Virgin help desk on the platform were hopeless with their 'help'.
Not only that, but it's usually the case I don't know when I'm returning so an advance is no use anyway.
The car clocks up many more miles these days

 

[yorkie]

Indeed. While most journeys will be for relatively short journeys, using fairly obvious ticketing arrangements, and will not go wrong, the threat of being mistreated is very real and people will not easily forget bad experiences.

The rail industry needs to ensure that such instances are not dismissed and are dealt with properly. Sadly I see no evidence of the rail industry ever getting to grips with the huge scale of the problem and the major effects that it has in deterring people from travelling by rail.

 

[Deafdoggie]

That is the point. Most journeys are fine. But when they go wrong, the rail industries handling of its customers is woefully lacking.

 

[Haywain]

Most journeys are fine. But when they go wrong, the rail industries handling of its customers is *sometimes* woefully lacking.

Corrected that for you.

 

[Wolfie]

Haywain That 'fix' is rather pretentious - in my experience your 'sometimes' should actually be 'mostly'.

 

[Darandio]

Haywain That 'fix' is rather pretentious - in my experience your 'sometimes' should actually be 'mostly'.

Yet you have said it yourself, in your experience.

 

[Starmill]

This is all a bit of a pointless discussion. We are complaining about the subjective experience of being threatened with prosecution. Less than 100% of people will find that distressing and unacceptable...

In my opinion, no amount of 'customer service' undoes a threated prosecution or police involvement in a ticket dispute, given I turned out to be right. Others view this kind of treatment as normal and acceptable, and a normal part of the customer interaction. That's their perogative. Either way, it does happen in the railway industry. I've never experienced it, or anything close to it, from any company but a train company.

 

[Haywain]

This is all a bit of a pointless discussion.

In my opinion, no amount of 'customer service' undoes a threated prosecution or police involvement in a ticket dispute, given I turned out to be right. Others view this kind of treatment as normal and acceptable. Either way, it does happen in the railway industry. I've never experienced it, or anything close to it, from any company but a train company.

Yes, it does happen and far too often. But it is still not the experience of anywhere near as many travellers as some would choose to believe.