Virgin Trains Proposed services

[underbank]

Most of the Lancaster terminators stopped after the timetable change in December.

We only have the 05:35 LAN-EUS now. Then the 13:33 EUS-LAN terminates here and goes back empty stock to the depot, so I am not sure how they can utilise anything from Lancaster?

The 10:30, 12:30 and 14:30 from Euston used to all terminate at Lancs and then head back to Euston, but they all go straight up to Glasgow now.

Like someone else said I imagine it will be more 390's on the BHM-EUS?

I thought the whole point of the new track layout at Lancaster (cross over to platform 5) was stated as to allow the Pendolinos to "turn" at Lancaster rather than having to travel to Carnforth to change direction. If there aren't going to be any Pendo terminations at Lancaster, what is the point of the new crossover?

 

[The Planner]

You need to look at the bigger picture. It allows a half station block and you can still run trains in both directions. It also allows more flexibility to turn trains back if it goes tits up. Just beacuse something isnt currently timetabled to do something does not mean it is of no use. It is also upgrading the up loop to passenger status and speeding it up and getting rid of some hideous signalling controls at the north end of the station.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Yes, in Today's Railways UK it states that two southbound trains will run from Shrewsbury (at 0706 and 1506), calling at Telford Central, Wellington and Stafford before arriving at London Euston (at 0918 and 1718)

Two nortbound services will leave London Euston (at 1133 and 1837) and arrive at Shrewsbury at 1350 and 2057.

The services will use the Oxley chord, avoiding Wolverhampton

Thank you for this information. So it will still be quicker, for journeys to London, to drive from Shropshire to Stafford and get a non-stop Pendolino than go all the way on the train. I live not far north of Shrewsbury (less than 20 mins drive to Shrewsbury station) and would prefer to go all the way by train, but currently it's both quicker and cheaper to drive as far as Stafford.

 

[Aictos]

A Pendolino with only 1 Class 57 isn't any use as Blackpool North doesn't have crossovers on any Platform to release locomotives. Also, following a derailment about 10 years ago, LHCS being propelled into the sidings derailed, therefore all LHCS require top n tail locomotives from Preston. I don't think Virgin would want to hire in a 2nd 57 as only 1 is normally on hand at Preston. For this reason until Blackpool is wired, a Voyager is the best option for this service.


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Ahh, didn't know that

 

[Whistler40145]

Regarding the Shrewsbury to Euston service, will this be the first time in many years that the Oxley Chord has been used by a booked service train, rather than a diversion?

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[Sammy h]

I thought the whole point of the new track layout at Lancaster (cross over to platform 5) was stated as to allow the Pendolinos to "turn" at Lancaster rather than having to travel to Carnforth to change direction. If there aren't going to be any Pendo terminations at Lancaster, what is the point of the new crossover?

It will be great for disruption purposes, turning trains around etc. Also, who is to say the time tables will not change?

 

[Whistler40145]

Mods, can you please change the thread title to Proposed Virgin services.

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[yorkie]

Mods, can you please change the thread title to Proposed Virgin services.

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[telstarbox]

This is good news for Blackpool. According to this list, the Blackpool conurbation is larger than Warrington and Wearside, which both have direct London services despite their distance from the capital.

 

[MCR247]

This is good news for Blackpool. According to this list, the Blackpool conurbation is larger than Warrington and Wearside, which both have direct London services despite their distance from the capital.

Why does everyone always think it is down to size and population?

Warrington has direct London services because you'd have to go through anyway and so there is no reason not to stop there.

Blackpool isn't on the way and requires diesel trains for the whole journey despite 95% of the journey being electrified

 

[dk1]

Very large Hen/Stag market on the Blackpool run Friday-Sunday but just how much comes from South of the Midlands im not sure. Might create growth if advertised well. The on-board shop will certainly do good trade but the unit will then need a good clean on arrival.

Last week i ended up on a 11-car Pendo mid-week on a through Euston-Brum-Glasgow. Was lovely as no more than a dozen punters per standard coach (1st class must have been peaceful) & passing the 10.40 Glasgow-Euston at Preston which was 9-car, full & standing. Probably diagram requirement but a tad wasteful.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Very large Hen/Stag market on the Blackpool run Friday-Sunday but just how much comes from South of the Midlands im not sure.

One could say the same for Newquay, at the end of a branch line, in a hedonistic Friday to Sunday setting of a nationally known seaside resort. Not just Hen/Stag parties, but also the 5th and 6th form-type gatherings of the more elder of school students, that seems to be the fulcrum point for all Cornwall.

 

[NickJ]

Does anyone know whether Virgin have submitted an application for track access to Network Rail/ORR for the proposed new Shropshire service starting in December?

 

[merlodlliw]

Does anyone know whether Virgin have submitted an application for track access to Network Rail/ORR for the proposed new Shropshire service starting in December?

It will be within the public domain on the ORR website within seven days of them receiving it, it will ask for comments, I can tell you ATW & LM have already told VT they will not oppose the services, NR seem happy.
ATW/LM/NR will be asked to formally reply when the ORR writes to them.
There is big support from M.Ps/Local Councils & Shropshire CC, etc etc.
Keep your eye on the ORR website. But its a goer.

anyone picked up if its to be a 5 or 6 day service.

I just wait for VT to pull the plug on the Wrexham Service, ATW have already stated in Wrexham "We have no intention of wishing to run a London service" source Mike Bagshaw ATW Director. ATW have already taken back the Chester to Wrexham Bank Holiday services off VT,when ATW gave up paths to VT. In my opinion the VT Wrexham service was only a spoiler anyhow.

 

[MK Tom]

Can someone sum up for me if the proposed service changes have any impact on Virgin services to Milton Keynes Central? Preferably an increase

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Warrington has direct London services because you'd have to go through anyway and so there is no reason not to stop there.

This is damning Warrington with faint praise!
"Warrington" stretches 5 miles in all directions and, despite a grimy image thanks to "Joe Soaps" next to the station, includes many hi-tech and modern businesses in places like Birchwood.
Of similar-sized north-west towns it is very much the "tiger" economy.
Its location on the M6/M56/M62 and on the WCML make it a key transport node.
It has also never been dependent on a single sector like mining, cotton or (in Blackpool's case) tourism.
There are also plenty of well-heeled business types in North Cheshire who use WBQ with its non-stop hourly service to Euston.
Add in some connectivity from the north-west to Chester/North Wales and you have a decent business case to stop there.
I can't prove it but I would guess that WBQ is second only to Preston in rail traffic generation in the north west (excluding Manchester and Liverpool of course).
East-west traffic at Warrington Central is good too for the same reasons, something overlooked in the Northern Hub plans - but that's another story.

 

[MCR247]

This is damning Warrington with faint praise!
"Warrington" stretches 5 miles in all directions and, despite a grimy image thanks to "Joe Soaps" next to the station, includes many hi-tech and modern businesses in places like Birchwood.
Of similar-sized north-west towns it is very much the "tiger" economy.
Its location on the M6/M56/M62 and on the WCML make it a key transport node.
It has also never been dependent on a single sector like mining, cotton or (in Blackpool's case) tourism.
There are also plenty of well-heeled business types in North Cheshire who use WBQ with its non-stop hourly service to Euston.
Add in some connectivity from the north-west to Chester/North Wales and you have a decent business case to stop there.
I can't prove it but I would guess that WBQ is second only to Preston in rail traffic generation in the north west (excluding Manchester and Liverpool of course).
East-west traffic at Warrington Central is good too for the same reasons, something overlooked in the Northern Hub plans - but that's another story.

You know what I was saying though. You can deny that its convenient location won't be a reason why it gets an hourly non-stop service

 

[danfitz123]

I think virgin are trying too hard to impress. Why do this on a temporary contract?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think virgin are trying too hard to impress. Why do this on a temporary contract?

Because otherwise the WC contract might have gone to DOR.
And you don't upset the paymaster.
ORR has to approve it yet, assuming NR can find the paths.

 

[The Planner]

ORR has to approve it yet, assuming NR can find the paths.

We'll find em....

 

[bILLOO]

Can someone sum up for me if the proposed service changes have any impact on Virgin services to Milton Keynes Central? Preferably an increase

Four non-stop services to London per hour isn't too bad as it stands...

 

[MK Tom]

Four non-stop services to London per hour isn't too bad as it stands...

Only three of those are from VT though, costs more to have the choice of the four!!

Anyway I was really thinking in the opposite direction.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think virgin are trying too hard to impress. Why do this on a temporary contract?

After the WCML debacle when Virgin brought their objections to First and the matter ended up in the way it did, Virgin now want to portray themselves as a "really useful" crew (with apologies to one of the lines in the "Thomas the Tank Engine" signature tune)

 

[bILLOO]

Only three of those are from VT though, costs more to have the choice of the four!!

Anyway I was really thinking in the opposite direction.

Direct trains to Manchester and Crewe and a faster Birmingham service give quite good connections to many parts of the country, or are the connection times not great? It would be nice for more VT to call at Rugby for us on the loop.

 

[MK Tom]

Direct trains to Manchester and Crewe and a faster Birmingham service give quite good connections to many parts of the country, or are the connection times not great? It would be nice for more VT to call at Rugby for us on the loop.

Are you a Northamptonian? Because yeah Northampton is virtually the same size as MK and yet has an absolutely dire service.

Well there was talk of giving MK the Wolverhampton service instead of one of the two Birmingham only ones. I'd also like to see us get a few more Liverpool and Glasgow services per day and I was hoping we'd be a stop on Shrewsbury. But Rugby does deserve more than it has for sure. There's just a balance to be struck between giving these major stations a good, intense intercity service and introducing so many stops that it ceases to be an intercity service.

 

[The Planner]

Whoops, misread the previous posts. Not sure if Rugby will be on the Shrewsbury, more likely MK, it might make the Blackpool though.

 

[merlodlliw]

We'll find em....

At the Wrexham meeting, one of the ATW staff present told us VT had already been in discussion with ATW/LM/NR, none saw a problem with paths or wished to oppose VT, so the biggest problem as gone away for the Shrewsbury run.I suspect the biggest problem is getting the services pathed into Euston

 

[The Planner]

Stafford and the reverse will be the biggest problem, Euston will be easy.

 

[merlodlliw]

Stafford and the reverse will be the biggest problem, Euston will be easy.

Why Stafford out of interest, I just thought Euston with platforms

 

[bILLOO]

Are you a Northamptonian? Because yeah Northampton is virtually the same size as MK and yet has an absolutely dire service.

Well there was talk of giving MK the Wolverhampton service instead of one of the two Birmingham only ones. I'd also like to see us get a few more Liverpool and Glasgow services per day and I was hoping we'd be a stop on Shrewsbury. But Rugby does deserve more than it has for sure. There's just a balance to be struck between giving these major stations a good, intense intercity service and introducing so many stops that it ceases to be an intercity service.

Live outside Northampton but it's the closest town with a station. It's had a dire service since I can remember. All Northampton wants/needs is a faster London service and decent connections to VT at MK. I believe Wellingborough has faster trains to London than Northampton and yet it must be a third of the size. The speed limit for the loop should be raised so that it's more desirable for faster services.