Virgin trains leaving Euston early?

[yorkie]

I've never heard of anyone moan at a late departure! If people are going to moan it will be about a late arrival.

No-one moans if their train leaves late but arrives on time or early.

If Virgin want their trains to leave a bit earlier than currently advertised then that's fine, change the public timetable to show an earlier departure. Of course they won't as they like to advertise journey times that are a bit shorter than they should be.

 

[gswindale]

They were on the 10:07 from Parkway on Saturday. The assumption seemed to be that a couple of minutes would cause them a major problem at Cardiff, where we arrived pretty much on time as far as I could tell. We were certainly on time when I left the train at Neath.

Most TOCs seem to leave slightly early at times. I've lost count of the number of SWT services that leave my local station shortly before the advertised departure. Never caused me a problem as I aim to get there 5 minutes before due even with a ticket.

Sent by Androids

 

[RJ]

What exactly is the problem? I've probably travelled on more Virgin Trains services out of Euston than most people here and I've never missed a train I've intended to catch. Anyone who bemoans a train leaving 30 seconds prior to departure needs to get their act together enough to ensure that they do not arrive at the station so late, which also means leaving a reasonable contingency for mishaps en route. I've travelled from over 100 miles away on hourly long distance service and I've had a choice between leaving a 25 minute transfer from St Pancras to Euston or 1hr 25 minutes...so I invariably choose the latter. It's a no brainer really.
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I've never heard of anyone moan at a late departure! If people are going to moan it will be about a late arrival.

No-one moans if their train leaves late but arrives on time or early.

If Virgin want their trains to leave a bit earlier than currently advertised then that's fine, change the public timetable to show an earlier departure. Of course they won't as they like to advertise journey times that are a bit shorter than they should be.

To be fair, they don't always do that. The WTT schedules show London to Manchester as taking 2 hours and 4 minutes but shown in the GBTT and widely advertised as 2 hours 8 minutes.

Some services are scheduled to depart 30s to 1m later than the advertised time too.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

If you were flying to Manchester from Heathrow you'd have to be at security at least 45 minutes before departure so I think we long distance rail commuters get a good deal.

No-one bothers about this whole issue with flights - we seem to accept that the departure time is nominal. We accept the need for gates closing well in advance and are quite happy if a flight does take off a minute or two early - a bonus in fact.

Unless critical connections are involved, I join those who can't see what all the fuss is about. 'Get there earlier' would seem to take care of it for me.

Am I missing something?

 

[34D]

Am I missing something?

Only that the busy lives of some people mean that this luxury isn't really possible.

 

[cakehoover]

There are two different issues here:

1. Trains that close their doors 40 seconds or a minute before advertised departure time, but do leave the station at the advertised time.

2. Trains that actually leave the station before the advertised departure time - as in the 19.40 Euston train I was on that left at 19.39.

My personal view is that (1) is a reasonable policy that could just be communicated better, but (2) really isn't justifiable.

 

[gswindale]

Not sure they are that different.

At Euston the platform is closed 2 minutes prior to departure. That should give you sufficient time to walk the length of the platform to reach coach A prior to the door closure sequence commencing.

If everybody is on and the path is clear, what is the issue with leaving 30s early? It's similar to a flight requesting to take off a little early because they know the wind is against them.

If they commence the door closure procedure whilst passengers are making their way down the platform then that is a different matter.

Sent by Androids

 

[Eagle]

Only that the busy lives of some people mean that this luxury isn't really possible.

I can't believe that anyone's life is so busy that they cannot spare 40 seconds or so to get to the station before the public departure time of their train.

 

[transmanche]

I can't believe that anyone's life is so busy that they cannot spare 40 seconds or so to get to the station before the public departure time of their train.

Well the discussion started with the 2 mins at Euston...

I can't believe that there are so many people who have never;

• encountered a delay on the tube
• some unexpected delay when driving
• a late bus
• been unable to get a cab in the rain
• encountered a malfunctioning TVM

or experienced one of the myriad of other things which can slightly delay you on your way to the platform. That's before you even take into account the possibility of being on a late incoming train.

Seeing that there are different public and working timetables already, I don't see what's so wrong with having the public timetable show the door closure time and the working timetable do what it does now - show the actual departure time.

For example: The 12:37 from Durham has a WTT departure time of 12:38. At each subsequent stop, the WTT departure time is 30-90 seconds later than the public timetable. Why not do the same at Euston?

 

[gswindale]

As I stated earlier, that has happened to me. Virgin immediately transferred us onto the next departure without any fuss.

Sent by Androids

 

[Tomnick]

Seeing that there are different public and working timetables already, I don't see what's so wrong with having the public timetable show the door closure time and the working timetable do what it does now - show the actual departure time.

That seems entirely sensible, rather than relying on posters that the intending passenger may or may not see. Yes, if you're not familiar with the station and its workings, it's perhaps foolish to arrive that close to departure time anyway - but surely amending the advertised departure time to include the two minutes is the clearest way forward?

 

[tannedfrog]

The Near impossible connection thread is a good example of why doors on a train should not close until just before the start of the minute, so in this case to lock the doors any earlier than 11:17:50 would be too early.

In other threads people contend that locking the doors one or two minutes before is perfectly acceptable.

 

[HowMuch?]

Locking doors early.

For me, they can lock the doors as early as they like. So long as the time they do it is shown as the departure time in the public timetable. To show the time the train leaves the platform is irrelevant to passengers, and only needs to appear on the behind-the-scenes schedule thingy I've read about on here.

 

[Oscar]

...the behind-the-scenes schedule thingy I've read about on here...

That is the working timetable as opposed to the public timetable and is available at www.opentraintimes.com or trains.im (in detailed mode).

 

[34D]

This thread is a good example of why doors on a train should not close until just before the start of the minute, so in this case to lock the doors any earlier than 11:17:50 would be too early.

In other threads people contend that locking the doors one or two minutes before is perfectly acceptable.

Or arguably, that the 11:18 should still be available to board at 11:18.00

 

[MikeWh]

Or arguably, that the 11:18 should still be available to board at 11:18.00

No!

The time shown is the departure time. Everyone needs to be on board and the doors closed and checked before that time.

 

[yorkie]

One thread on this is quite enough so I've split the comments on door locking times from the Near impossible connection thread.

I'd prefer it if the advertised time was the time doors are locked, I wouldn't go as far as to say that 11:18 means you should still be available to board at 11:18.00 but the doors should close at that time so you should be able to board seconds before.

If Virgin want 2 additional minutes to lock doors then the public timetables should be adjusted by 2 minutes. Simple!

 

[transportphoto]

I totally agree with yorkie, if a company wants to close doors early then they advertise the door close time, the actual departure time can stay the same.

TP

 

[The Planner]

Won't happen though as it will affect the headline journey time, not that Virgin have any protection on that anymore.

 

[DarloRich]

Won't happen though as it will affect the headline journey time, not that Virgin have any protection on that anymore.

Indeed - and they do already advertise the door closure times on posters at the stations.

 

[All Line Rover]

Hang on a minute. If Virgin make the departure times 2 minutes early (using the "closing the doors early" issue as an excuse), and keep the arrival times the same, won't that just increase the journey times, meaning that any delay will have to be 2 minutes LONGER than before for people to be able to claim compensation? That would be very cheeky!

 

[The Planner]

Happens now at intermediate stations anyway, take the EBW trains, booked Milton Keynes WTT xx12½-xx14½, PTT xx13-xx13.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

Not wishing to be picky but isn't this whole thread pedantic? We are talking 40,50,55 seconds here?

 

[All Line Rover]

Not wishing to be picky but isn't this whole thread pedantic? We are talking 40,50,55 seconds here?

It is pedantic. The whole thing is so well publicised that you've got to be blind (fair excuse, that ), in a mad rush or extremely dumb to miss it. Who in their right mind arrives at the station to board an intercity train just two minutes before departure?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I have missed trains by a matter of seconds (in one case 8 in the past), so no, I think it may well be quite common (and not through people's own fault - tube delays, overrunning meetings etc). A few seconds can make a world of difference.

 

[calc7]

It is pedantic. The whole thing is so well publicised that you've got to be blind (fair excuse, that ), in a mad rush or extremely dumb to miss it. Who in their right mind arrives at the station to board an intercity train just two minutes before departure?

Whilst I do agree with you there will be the occasional instance of misfortune or bad luck which, as somebody living in London, I can feel some compassion for.

Interestingly, I wonder if the advertised minimum connection time between other London Terminals and London Euston takes into account the fact that many Virgin trains are removed from the departure boards three minutes before departure and boarding can be suspended up to two minutes before boarding.

 

[All Line Rover]

I have missed trains by a matter of seconds (in one case 8 in the past), so no, I think it may well be quite common (and not through people's own fault - tube delays, overrunning meetings etc). A few seconds can make a world of difference.

I too have missed trains by a matter of seconds. It is extremely irritating to see the doors closing just as you are running to board the train! But I don't use that as an excuse to delay the train for everyone else. We're talking about 11-carriage intercity trains here - it takes more than a few seconds to dispatch them.

If you miss your booked train because of a tube delay and have an Advance ticket, go to the ticket office (they are very good at exercising discretion ). If it's because of an overrun meeting, I suspect you have a flexible ticket. In which case another train will be available to board in less than an hour - less than 20 minutes on the two most popular routes! I really don't see the issue here.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

It is pedantic. The whole thing is so well publicised that you've got to be blind (fair excuse, that ), in a mad rush or extremely dumb to miss it. Who in their right mind arrives at the station to board an intercity train just two minutes before departure?

I use Manchester Piccadilly, once a week; and it is well publicised, by PA that such and such train is ready to depart. That said, I have sometimes seen a mini stampede, on hearing the announcement. The culprits usually queuing up at Upper Crust etc.

On a general note, as a person in a wheelchair, I have been asked, by more than one TOC, to be at the station, no less than 15 minutes before departure. Seems reasonable to me. Circumstances beyond my control have sometimes prevented that; but in the main, it does work.

 

[All Line Rover]

Whilst I do agree with you there will be the occasional instance of misfortune or bad luck which, as somebody living in London, I can feel some compassion for.

Interestingly, I wonder if the advertised minimum connection time between other London Terminals and London Euston takes into account the fact that many Virgin trains are removed from the departure boards three minutes before departure and boarding can be suspended up to two minutes before boarding.

What I don't understand is why people moan so much about the two minutes. If I miss a train, I have to wait at least one, maybe two hours for the next one. It doesn't matter if I missed the train because of something out of my control.

If London-end Virgin customers miss a train, they have to wait no longer than one hour (even those going to Glasgow or Holyhead can conveniently change at Preston or Chester). For the majority of customers the wait is no longer than 20 minutes!

If you have an Advance ticket, I don't think two minutes is going to make a lot of difference. You should be at the station a lot earlier than that if you want to be sure of catching your booked train!
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I use Manchester Piccadilly, once a week; and it is well publicised, by PA that such and such train is ready to depart. That said, I have sometimes seen a mini stampede, on hearing the announcement. The culprits usually queuing up at Upper Crust etc.

On a general note, as a person in a wheelchair, I have been asked, by more than one TOC, to be at the station, no less than 15 minutes before departure. Seems reasonable to me. Circumstances beyond my control have sometimes prevented that; but in the main, it does work.

And if you miss it, why the fuss? The next train will already to available to board!

 

[Bevan Price]

Then you would get the public moaning their 19:38 depature had departed a minute or two late...there's no real winning!
)

No - they only moan if they arrive late at their destination.

I wonder if anyone has complained to the Advertiding Standards Authority about not being allowed to board a departure advertised for (say) 19:40 when the platform entrance is closed at 19:38. To me, it is misleading advertising if you cannot board a train right up to the advertised departure time. Operational convenience for TOC's is no excuse, and I agree that the public timetables ought to advertise the departure time as the time that the platform (or train) doors start to close.