Virgin Trains granted track access for international services by ORR

[Sorcerer]

An entirely self-inflicted problem. Every time I've been without fail there's an absurdly long queue of people 45 mins or even an hour before departure, while the upstairs seating area at the end remains mostly empty. When they announce boarding you come down the steps and merge into the front of the queue anyway.

But of course, create an airport-like atmosphere and you get airport-like behaviour.

In my case most of the waiting area seats were taken and the queue formed because there was also disruption from the previous train which was cancelled. I was just hoping nobody would get my seat double-booked.

so any clue if Virgin or Eurostar will accept the passengers of the other during disruptions?
at the moment its simple to put people on the next Eurostar if delayed (e.g. long security checks) but what happens of the next train is a Virgin train?

I actually can't see ticket acceptance being a normal practice to be honest. I expect Virgin's shorter train formations will mean it'll be easier to fill them up with regular paying passengers with less room for spare. I don't know if as international open-access operators they have the same obligations as ones on the National Rail network (I'd certainly welcome such knowledge if anyone has any). I for one wonder if Virgin will accept Interrail since some operators like NTV Italo actually don't.

 

[AdamWW]

I actually can't see ticket acceptance being a normal practice to be honest. I expect Virgin's shorter train formations will mean it'll be easier to fill them up with regular paying passengers with less room for spare. I don't know if as international open-access operators they have the same obligations as ones on the National Rail network (I'd certainly welcome such knowledge if anyone has any).

So far as I can see most countries don't place much in the way of obligations on open access operators. I'd have thought for international journeys there is even less scope for that.

Czechia has the "one ticket" multi-operator ticket for domestic journeys. I don't know if it's compulsory for operators to accept it.

 

[leshuttle]

Will be interesting to see how much of Eurostar’s branding and name on signage and announcements on other trains like Thameslink will remain when other operators begin sharing the terminals.

 

[Amalie]

I’m not really sure if any of the terminals could really handle Eurostar + Virgin travellers at this moment. You can sort of bunch travellers for different Eurostar trains together, but I can see it getting really messy when managing crowds between two (competing) companies.

 

[Sorcerer]

I’m not really sure if any of the terminals could really handle Eurostar + Virgin travellers at this moment. You can sort of bunch travellers for different Eurostar trains together, but I can see it getting really messy when managing crowds between two (competing) companies.

I worry you may be right. If Gare du Nord can't manage the increase then SNCF Reseau would need to invest in more capacity, and whether they would do that for the purpose of accommodating a competitor is a question in and of itself. This is why you could argue Virgin are being presumptuous because even with ORR approval they still need track access with Getlink, SNCF, Infrabel and ProRail. That's a lot of applications to be making.

 

[Warrior2852]

Yes - in Brussels yesterday I got through passport control to find a huge queue winding its way through the duty free shop and into the lounge. But once boarding started, it moved so quickly with people merging in that the whole thing was pretty pointless.

I presume people are used to how slowly a plane boards rather than a train with lots of doors.

Brussels has one of the most bizarre layouts I've ever seen with the double back routing through the Duty Free checkouts and everyone getting in each others' way, adding in more passengers to that will make it even more chaotic.

 

[Trainbike46]

Brussels has one of the most bizarre layouts I've ever seen with the double back routing through the Duty Free checkouts and everyone getting in each others' way, adding in more passengers to that will make it even more chaotic.

Brussels' post security area has been bad for at least 10 years, but it has gotten worse since they introduced the duty-free shop, which is a truly bizarre addition.

I wonder if the works there will ever finish - Every time I have passed through there was some kind of ongoing construction work.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I don't understand the logic behind making a change and then not letting people know beforehand, at least when they get into the queue.

I had a notification from the Eurostar app about it a few hours before my train. The whole process didn't take all that long but the layout seemed designed to disorient and annoy. The barriers were moved around every minute and several staff seemed to be employed solely to not believe anyone who said they had an EU passport.

Brussels has one of the most bizarre layouts I've ever seen with the double back routing through the Duty Free checkouts and everyone getting in each others' way, adding in more passengers to that will make it even more chaotic.

That place astonishes me as well. I thought it couldn't be made worse, but that useless shop has done it. Seems a bit of a shoplifters' paradise

 

[martin2345uk]

Trenitalia have also launched their own appeal against Virgin’s track access agreement

Link

Trenitalia France (TF) has called for Virgin’s HS1 track access agreement to be rescinded, joining Eurostar in appealing the agreement.

On August 13, the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) authorised Virgin and London St Pancras Highspeed (LSPH) to complete a framework agreement which will allow up to 20 new daily return services from October 1, 2030.

Eurostar immediately appealed, saying LSPH had given Virgin “special status”. TF followed suit in late September, saying its rival has been given “preferential treatment’”.

In its appeal, Trenitalia said it was “aggrieved at the unfair and discriminatory treatment... in contrast with LSPH’s treatment of Virgin”.

Trenitalia plans to start running between London and Paris a year before Virgin.

It believes “it is materially more advanced in operational preparedness than Virgin” having spoken to other infrastructure managers and ordering 19 high-speed trains from Hitachi to be delivered by 2029.

TF trains will be maintained in Paris for use on routes radiating from the French capital, including to London. It also has licences and safety authorisation for existing services in France.

Virgin has yet to order trains from Alstom, despite signing a binding agreement for 12 Avelia Stream sets last month. It also revealed its new livery last week. TF said that despite its plans, it couldn’t progress its own application and accused LSPH of requiring “much more concrete evidence” of its maintenance arrangements than Virgin’s.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Trenitalia have also launched their own appeal against Virgin’s track access agreement

Link

Forgive my ignorance, but neither ES or TF had made an application for extra or new paths. Is their argument essentially that VT were given preferential treatment by virtue of being first to apply?