Virgin train fails to stop at station - how does this happen?

[Anvil1984]

A few weeks i was traveling on the 17.38 Sheffield to London. I was due to alight at Belper.When we arrived the doors wouldn't open in the two rear coaches and we pulled of leaving stuck on board. i went to see the guard and asked what had happened. She said the platforms were too short at Belper for the rear two coaches. This is absolute nonsense of course with a five coach train. I asked her how I was supposed to get home as that train connected with my last bus home.The only alternative is a taxi which can be very hard to get in Belper. The guard was totally unconcerned and I when I asked for her name she refused to give it. So I took her photo.At Derby I went straight to the manager who said it was crazy to suggest that the platforms were too short at Belper.He immediately got me a taxi home and said that he would talk to the guard about alighting protocols. The manager was very professional and helpful

He can talk to the guard about "alighting protocols" but IIRC the guard does not operate the SDO on the class 222s so isnt to blame for those doors not opening. It would be the driver who puts the code in

 

[dysonsphere]

Actually I think it could, if a signalman accidentally routed a driver onto a route he didn't know and he accepted it. If that's wrong then correct me. It's very unlikely of course.

I remember it happened in south wales dont ask me the date a HST routed onto the freight lines (to power station I think) driver relised a bit late and was left stranded on a long siding in effect. Cant remember the outcome but redfaces all round.

 

[sutty]

It could be worse. I was due in Coventry for 8am a few weeks back, so I got an earlier train (Wolves to Euston) not realising it was express from New St to Euston.

Still, Virgin were good enough to bring me back for free and I got loads of work one on the way back.

How far have you overshot as a passenger?

 

[infobleep]

It could be worse. I was due in Coventry for 8am a few weeks back, so I got an earlier train (Wolves to Euston) not realising it was express from New St to Euston.

Still, Virgin were good enough to bring me back for free and I got loads of work one on the way back.

How far have you overshot as a passenger?

Yes into the Harrow and Wealdstone sidings once on a Bakerloo train.

Another time meant to change trains at East Croydon but heard no announcement and was so engrossed in something I was reading I failed to notice and ended up heading to London Bridge. Very kind staff let me travel back for free. I clearly wasn't trying it on as my ticket was to Harrow and this was not a faster shortcut.

 

[Geezertronic]

It could be worse. I was due in Coventry for 8am a few weeks back, so I got an earlier train (Wolves to Euston) not realising it was express from New St to Euston.

Still, Virgin were good enough to bring me back for free and I got loads of work one on the way back.

How far have you overshot as a passenger?

When that service first started (is the 0730 from New Street?), the local news were onboard and interviewed a few people who had made that mistake. I believe it is also the reason that the 0741 that starts from International exists to supplement train users from International & Coventry. That service always seems to be well loaded after its Coventry stop.

On the subject of wrong routing, a EUS-BHM service I travelled on early last year was wrong routed past Rugby down the Trent Valley. The driver noticed and slammed the anchors on, reversed us back into Rugby (with permission I assume), then we proceeded towards Coventry as normal albeit with a 20 minute delay

 

[Sheepy1209]

What about 'failed to not stop'?

I was once waiting at Hinckley (in Central Trains days) for the stopper to Birmingham, only to see what should have been a non-stop service come to a halt in front of me (clear signal) - guard opened one door and invited me to board (there was nobody else on the platform) then buzzed the driver like a normal stop. I suspect he wasn't supposed to do that but I wasn't going to complain!

 

[Buttsy]

I asked for a request stop at Durinish from the guard in 2013 when at Kyle Of Lochalsh and we overshot the platform as the driver forgot the guard had told him to stop (teh guard reminded him as we didn't slow for Durinish). As a door was by a ramp and I've been travelling by train for 40ish years, I didn't worry about jumping down to the platform ramp or reporting anyone as 'these things happen', particularly I'd wager at request stops.

I found it mildly amusing in all honesty.

On the thread point, people make mistakes, whoever made the mistake will be much more aware of not making it in future I would expect. If such a mistake is made, one would expect teh TOC to 'bail out' inconvenienced passengers depending on the issues faced by them (missed appointment, extra hour charge with child care, etc.)

 

[455driver]

What about 'failed to not stop'?

I was once waiting at Hinckley (in Central Trains days) for the stopper to Birmingham, only to see what should have been a non-stop service come to a halt in front of me (clear signal) - guard opened one door and invited me to board (there was nobody else on the platform) then buzzed the driver like a normal stop. I suspect he wasn't supposed to do that but I wasn't going to complain!

They probably realised the mistake and the guard was checking that the train was safe to depart (using the bell codes or however they do it) and he decided to let you on at the same time.

 

[higthomas]

I too have had a driver fail to stop, it was when Shalford was a request stop, and I guess the guard forgot to tell the driver. Bit no matter, Guildford wasn't much further back then.

But my main point was, aren't there notices at some stations one stop before very infrequently used stations, reminding the driver that they might be stopping thee, e.g. Radley for Culham?
So it must be a reasonably frequent occurrence.

 

[hassaanhc]

What about 'failed to not stop'?

I was once waiting at Hinckley (in Central Trains days) for the stopper to Birmingham, only to see what should have been a non-stop service come to a halt in front of me (clear signal) - guard opened one door and invited me to board (there was nobody else on the platform) then buzzed the driver like a normal stop. I suspect he wasn't supposed to do that but I wasn't going to complain!

Couple of weeks ago I had a driver stop at Woolwich Dockyard when it should have been non stop from Woolwich Arsenal to Charlton (a special extra Slade Green to Charing Cross service, ruined the RT running that was the case up to that point :P :P)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

At the end of the day, everyone makes the occasional mistake. Rather unfortunately when a driver makes a mistake like this it's very obvious and you can't correct it, unlike office bods who of course NEVER :roll: make mistakes and when they do, they can of course use the delete/backspace keys or the office shredder!

 

[6Gman]

At the end of the day, everyone makes the occasional mistake. Rather unfortunately when a driver makes a mistake like this it's very obvious and you can't correct it, unlike office bods who of course NEVER :roll: make mistakes and when they do, they can of course use the delete/backspace keys or the office shredder!

I refer the Hon Member to my post upthread.



Some office wallahs are happy to acknowledge their errors!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Which rather unfortunately is the exception rather than the rule these days.

 

[mirodo]

It could be worse. I was due in Coventry for 8am a few weeks back, so I got an earlier train (Wolves to Euston) not realising it was express from New St to Euston.

Still, Virgin were good enough to bring me back for free and I got loads of work one on the way back.

How far have you overshot as a passenger?

Not me, but sat opposite a guy on a non-stop Preston-Euston who was expecting it to stop at Wigan. A 4 hour+ round trip for what was meant to be a 10 minute journey!

 

[notadriver]

I was on a bus that got lost once, and some passengers had to tell the driver how to get back on the route. At least that can't happen on a train !

This driver didn't 'know the way'

http://m.theargus.co.uk/news/894890..._didn_t_know_how_to_get_to_Brighton/#comments

Obviously the driver wasn't diagrammed to go all the way to Brighton.

But the comparison is interesting. Whereas a passenger could direct a lost bus driver there is no way that a passenger, or even a commuter who uses the route every day could give driving 'directions' to a driver

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Nope. For that you need a "Pilot" driver & if necessary "Pilot" guard as well, who sign the route or preferably both route & traction.

The worst thing of all is people asking for a place for example Southampton, so if we're at Waterloo, we point them in the direction of a 1Wxx service, which is fast. Yet they have a habit of then saying just as the doors are closing it does stop at & the favourites are :Farnborough/Fleet/Winchfield/Hook/Basingstoke/Micheldever.

However the peak time ones are often Waterloo - Winchester NON STOP! I can just imagine their faces as they go charging past their stop at anywhere between 65 & 100 mph!

The lesson being, always ask exactly for where you want to go, NOT a principal destination.

 

[carriageline]

Actually I think it could, if a signalman accidentally routed a driver onto a route he didn't know and he accepted it. If that's wrong then correct me. It's very unlikely of course.

Lol, a passenger would not route conduct a driver on a route even the passenger wouldn't know (regardless how often he used it!)

As tomnick said, a wrong direction move would most likely be in order


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[hounddog]

One of those things that seems obvious but no doubt has some reason why it can't be done: couldn't the signals be set so that (barring passing at danger) the driver has to stop at the stations?

 

[carriageline]

Because drivers would (presumably?) drive more defensively therefore slower. It also increases the SPAD risk, and increases workload for us poor bobbies


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[Minilad]

Well the biggest reason would be not all stations have signals at the end of the platform

 

[O L Leigh]

One of those things that seems obvious but no doubt has some reason why it can't be done: couldn't the signals be set so that (barring passing at danger) the driver has to stop at the stations?

What a spectacularly bad idea. Click.

O L Leigh

 

[dk1]

Because drivers would (presumably?) drive more defensively therefore slower. It also increases the SPAD risk, and increases workload for us poor bobbies


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Exactly. Same applied at Stratford but caused extra delay. People also forget that driving trains is a very boring job & distraction can come very easily.

 

[455driver]

One of those things that seems obvious but no doubt has some reason why it can't be done: couldn't the signals be set so that (barring passing at danger) the driver has to stop at the stations?

Quite a few stations dont have signals.
A lot of others have auto signals.


If the driver is approaching a red signal then our policy is 20 at the ramp or AWS magnet, most 8 coach stations we would normally hit at about 30, some others at up to 50 (or a bit more at some ), your idea would increase running times to fix a 'problem' which might only happen once a day in the whole Country.

Edit-
In a few years time when we have been replaced by a Spectrum ZX81 things like this will be a thing of the past because everything will run perfectly!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Quite a few stations dont have signals.
A lot of others have auto signals.


If the driver is approaching a red signal then our policy is 20 at the ramp or AWS magnet, most 8 coach stations we would normally hit at about 30, some others at up to 50 (or a bit more at some ), your idea would increase running times to fix a 'problem' which might only happen once a day in the whole Country.

Edit-
In a few years time when we have been replaced by a Spectrum ZX81 things like this will be a thing of the past because everything will run perfectly!

Have you been sniffing something strong or drinking something other than coffee?

You can always deceive the panel anyway if you know where to creep up to, been there done that.

 

[455driver]

Have you been sniffing something strong

Absolutely not!

or drinking something other than coffee?

No comment, I am unemployed now you know!

You can always deceive the panel anyway if you know where to creep up to, been there done that.

Tee hee hee!

 

[celeborne]

I had a driver ring me from York station.(I was a Signaller). He told me he had a passenger for Ulleskelf who had missed the last train, but his TOC would not issue him with a special stop order. He asked if he could be sent to Leeds via Ulleskelf for "route retention purposes." I was more than happy to help. Top driver

 

[TOCDriver]

What a spectacularly bad idea. Click.

O L Leigh

More often than not, signallers have had O codes stuck against them for delaying trains that are early in a booked slot. Why? Because they have held them until the booked time and they have been subsequently late further up the road because they hadn't taken into account how long it takes for that train to get back up to line speed (particularly if you're dealing with HST's). It's never a good idea to hold class 1's up if they're early and there is no other conflicting traffic.

 

[Tomnick]

More often than not, signallers have had O codes stuck against them for delaying trains that are early in a booked slot. Why? Because they have held them until the booked time and they have been subsequently late further up the road because they hadn't taken into account how long it takes for that train to get back up to line speed (particularly if you're dealing with HST's). It's never a good idea to hold class 1's up if they're early and there is no other conflicting traffic.

Same applies to any train for me, class 1 or not - if it's the next train over the junction (or even if it's not, but there's a suitable margin), then why not just run it even if it is a little bit early?! Worst that'll happen is that it has to wait time at the next regulating point - bonus if it then turns out that it could actually do with sneaking out in front of a late runner after all! Far better for all concerned than 'signalling by numbers'...!

 

[PermitToTravel]

This driver didn't 'know the way'

http://m.theargus.co.uk/news/894890..._didn_t_know_how_to_get_to_Brighton/#comments

Obviously the driver wasn't diagrammed to go all the way to Brighton.

But the comparison is interesting. Whereas a passenger could direct a lost bus driver there is no way that a passenger, or even a commuter who uses the route every day could give driving 'directions' to a driver

 

[Crossover]

What a spectacularly bad idea. Click.

O L Leigh

I don't work in the industry but can only agree with all of what you (and a couple of posters since) have said - it would be solving a problem that doesn't exist and creating new problems that shouldn't exist