Virgin Super off peak

[steffo]

My wife is taking my daughters from Birmingham to London this Saturday. We have a railcard. She plans to take the 09.30 out (off peak web) and return next day at 14.18 (super off peak web).

I notice upon checking the T&C is states the following.
VALIDITY
Your outward journey must be on super off-peak trains on the date specified, and you must return on super off-peak trains within one calendar month. Super off-peak times vary by route - our journey planner only shows super off-peak tickets on trains for which they are valid

So i cannot use a off peak out and super off peak return?

Confused.....

 

[Asian Demon]

My wife is taking my daughters from Birmingham to London this Saturday. We have a railcard. She plans to take the 09.30 out (off peak web) and return next day at 14.18 (super off peak web).

I notice upon checking the T&C is states the following.
VALIDITY
Your outward journey must be on super off-peak trains on the date specified, and you must return on super off-peak trains within one calendar month. Super off-peak times vary by route - our journey planner only shows super off-peak tickets on trains for which they are valid

So i cannot use a off peak out and super off peak return?

Confused.....

If you have been sold a off peak half single outwards and super offpeak for return, then I would ignore that entirely. It's more to do with if the whole ticket is a super offpeak aka outward portion and return portion, then you must use super off peak trains only. It's just really badly written T&C's tbh.

 

[island]

If you can confirm the exact ticket types printed on the tickets, plus prices and routes, we might be able to get you a more precise answer. Reason I say this is I don't believe Virgin offers super off-peak singles from Birmingham to London or v/v.

 

[yorkie]

Virgin sell 'SVH' tickets, the old name for this was 'Saver Half' but it was re-named 'Off Peak Single', though roughly half the price of the 'SVS' which is also called 'Off Peak Single'.

I wasn't aware of Virgin selling Super Off Peak Singles. Perhaps this is new; was this booked on the Virgin website? And what's the price?

 

[gnolife]

the price is £19 according to the LM website

 

[LexyBoy]

I'm guessing the tickets for the return journey are Super Off Peak Singles, routed "Virgin Trains Only". Price £12.55 Adult with Railcard - the Super Off Peak Return is £16.15.

If you haven't already bought your tickets, I'd advise you to buy Off Peak Returns (£29.25 Adult Railcard) instead of two sets of singles - the Return is only pennies more than the Single, so you're wasting your money buying extra Singles for the return journey.

[Unfortunately I can't see what the restrictions are on travel with these tickets as Virgin have helpfully not provided NRE with the restriction text (SN), which would be in line with their penchant for introducing baffling new fares which are out of kilter with the rest of the network. It appears to be valid on trains arriving into London after 1500 though (including weekends).]

End of the day: if you have booked tickets for particular trains, and travel on those trains, you will be fine. You wouldn't have been sold a ticket for a journey it wasn't valid on (and if you were, it would be a Ticket Irregularity Report, which means that it gets reported back to the relevant authorities but you still get to complete your journey).

 

[island]

the price is £19 according to the LM website

That sounds close to the price of a LDN MIDLAND ONLY super off-peak, which isn't valid on Virgin and will result in a surcharge of £74.50.

 

[firespire]

I'm guessing the tickets for the return journey are Super Off Peak Singles, routed "Virgin Trains Only". Price £12.55 Adult with Railcard

The Super Off Peak Single (Online) routed "Virgin Trains Only" seems to be a special fare through the Virgin Trains website at £8.10 with railcard.

 

[LexyBoy]

The Super Off Peak Single (Online) routed "Virgin Trains Only" seems to be a special fare through the Virgin Trains website at £8.10 with railcard.

You're right, I was quoting the normal fare - it's the same ticket though. I imagine the Off Peak quoted gets a similar discount for being bought through Virgin's website.

 

[firespire]

You're right, I was quoting the normal fare - it's the same ticket though. I imagine the Off Peak quoted gets a similar discount for being bought through Virgin's website.

Normal fare is £12.25.
Other trainline based websites are selling a Super Off Peak Single at 12.55 including railcard discount which I though you were referring too.

 

[LexyBoy]

Normal fare is £12.25.
Other trainline based websites are selling a Super Off Peak Single at 12.55 including railcard discount which I though you were referring too.

I was quoting from NRE. By 'normal' I meant 'non-web' rather than 'non-railcard'. Hope that makes more sense, I'm confused now!

 

[yorkie]

I wasn't aware of Virgin selling Super Off Peak Singles. Perhaps this is new; was this booked on the Virgin website? And what's the price?

I looked into this, and Virgin are selling Super Off Peak Singles.

I added an Off Peak Single one way, and and a Super Off Peak Single the other way, for a return journey from BHM > EUS and it said this regarding validity:

Ticket details

OFF-PEAK SINGLE (ONLINE ONLY) (OUTWARD) £22.15

• 1 Adult(s) Full Fare @ £22.15

• This ticket allows travel on any permitted route.
• Flexible ticket only valid at specific off-peak times of the day.

SUPER OFF-PEAK SINGLE (ONLINE) (RETURN) £12.25

• 1 Adult(s) Full Fare @ £12.25

• This ticket is only valid for travel on Virgin Trains services.
• Flexible ticket only valid at specific off-peak times of the day.

There was no information available that I could see that revealed what these specific times are.

 

[All Line Rover]

There was no information available that I could see that revealed what these specific times are.

Specific times are available here: http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/announcements/super-off-peak-timetable.pdf. It's a little confusing I must say!

 

[island]

And why aren't the fares on Avantix NFM? And since when are super off-peak tickets restricted on weekends?

 

[TomJ93]

These fares are a school holiday special, they will be relinquished from the 4th September.

 

[steffo]

I bought the tickets as follows;(virgin website)

2 adults 1 x Child family R/Card -Out sat 09.30 (sat)
Total 33.40
Off peak single -web only
Vaild on any permitted route
Flexible ticket at off peak times

2 adults 1 x child family R/Card - Return 14.38 (sun)
Total 18.55
Super off peak single - web only
Virgin trains only
Flexible ticket at off peak times

I guess these tickets are okay. As a footnote how does Johnny Foreigner cope with our complex ticket options? (if we struggle).

 

[LexyBoy]

And why aren't the fares on Avantix NFM? And since when are super off-peak tickets restricted on weekends?

Since Virgin decided to start making up a whole load of random tickets with arbitrary restrictions?

Can't see why Super Off Peaks shouldn't include weekend restrictions though, plenty of trains are far busier on weekends than in the week.

 

[tony_mac]

since when are super off-peak tickets restricted on weekends?

Chiltern's have had Saturday restrictions for some time.

 

[bnm]

Chiltern's have had Saturday restrictions for some time.

Really? I thought Chiltern's Super off Peaks have been unrestricted on Saturdays since September last year (NFM07).

 

[tony_mac]

errm, yes, I mean to say that they were restricted some time ago....

Sorry, I forgot to check if they still are!

 

[BRX]

I've been trying to buy a ticket from London-Rugby.

Looking on Virgin's own site they were offering a "Super Off Peak Return (online only)" for £16.15 (with disabled railcard).

This came up when I did a search for an open return. It tells me which outward trains it's valid on but not for the return portion (it doesn't show a list of return services like the NRE site does). Just says valid on certain specific super-off-peak trains. No information anywhere to tell me what these trains are.

It's only by doing a search on here and reading this thread, that I found the PDF timetable linked to above which confirms which services these are (and that they don't include the times I want to travel).

This is pretty bad isn't it? I'm tempted to buy a ticket and then if challenged on the return portion, ask them how I was supposed to know what trains it's valid on, seeing as no useful info is given at point of sale.

So much for fares simplification, eh.

By the, on the Virgin website, it doesn't show you the cheap London Midland only fare (£11.90 return). You can only see that if you follow the link saying "Results are based on the fastest available trains. Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available.". Yet on NRE this fare comes up without having to check for slower trains or anything. I thought operators were obliged to show all trains in their timetables. If Virgin are breaking rules by doing this I'd be very happy to make a complaint.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Since Virgin decided to start making up a whole load of random tickets with arbitrary restrictions?

What are the rules here? I thought part of the idea of the fares simplification thing was to outlaw this.

 

[bb21]

So much for fares simplification, eh.

A botched operation.

By the, on the Virgin website, it doesn't show you the cheap London Midland only fare (£11.90 return). You can only see that if you follow the link saying "Results are based on the fastest available trains. Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available.". Yet on NRE this fare comes up without having to check for slower trains or anything. I thought operators were obliged to show all trains in their timetables. If Virgin are breaking rules by doing this I'd be very happy to make a complaint.

I don't think showing the fastest journeys is against any rule, as long as an option is given for slower trains to be shown. What is a problem, though, is that the Virgin website does have a habit of not displaying applicable lower fares for some journeys. This is against impartial retailing and has been brought to their attention. Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, they have not yet done enough to alert users to cheaper alternatives.

What are the rules here? I thought part of the idea of the fares simplification thing was to outlaw this.

The rule is that each fare is governed by its own restriction code. There is no hard and fast rule about what the term Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak actually means without checking the restriction code.

Fares simplification managed to complicate matters by giving different products the same name, hence causing more confusion.

 

[BRX]

I don't think showing the fastest journeys is against any rule, as long as an option is given for slower trains to be shown. What is a problem, though, is that the Virgin website does have a habit of not displaying applicable lower fares for some journeys. This is against impartial retailing and has been brought to their attention. Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, they have not yet done enough to alert users to cheaper alternatives.

Sorry, I was a bit unclear - this is what I meant: they are not showing the lower fares.

They show the slower LM journeys but they don't show the cheapest fare. They show the regular any-permitted off peak return but they don't show the (much cheaper) LM-only off peak return.

In what way has it been "brought to their attention"...?

 

[bb21]

Sorry, I was a bit unclear - this is what I meant: they are not showing the lower fares.

They show the slower LM journeys but they don't show the cheapest fare. They show the regular any-permitted off peak return but they don't show the (much cheaper) LM-only off peak return.

In what way has it been "brought to their attention"...?

I think some members of the forum have written to them about it. I can't remember the details. There is a thread in here somewhere about it but it's too late for me to go find it. You might want to do a search.

If you want to remind them about the same issue then go ahead. The more people complain, the more likely they'll do something about it.

 

[BRX]

Is there any specific rule/regulation that sets out the principles of impartial retailing though? If I write to them it would be best to know exactly what they are and aren't supposed to do.

And ultimately who is supposed to enforce this anyway? ORR?

 

[tony_mac]

Apparently websites do not have to be impartial, but they should make it clear if they are not. (According to Passenger Focus).

Complaints should go to Virgin first then Passenger Focus; the ORR do not deal with individual complaints but may get involved in more general matters.

I have been complaining for some time to Virgin, Passenger Focus and now the ORR (which was suggested by Passenger Focus).