Virgin railcard easement

[faddy]

I can't find any recent discussion on here regarding the Virgin railcard easement for Off-Peak tickets. Is it still the consensus that one can safely ignore the requirement that travel should be entirely on Virgin services?

 

[yorkie]

I wouldn't advise "ignoring" such a 'requirement', however unenforceable it is.

The main reason it's worded that way is to avoid people attempting to use services of other operators at invalid times.

 

[Merseysider]

Whilst Virgin will be happy to let you travel on an off-peak ticket, it's worth remembering the guard or other onboard staff of another TOC may take exception to it and require you to excess up to the Anytime fare.

I wouldn't advise "ignoring" such a 'requirement', however unenforceable it is.

The main reason it's worded that way is to avoid people attempting to use services of other operators at invalid times.

When I got an off-peak return at Man Picc for travel to London at 7am, the Virgin clerk told me "you can get any train there, any train back;" a slightly misguided statement I thought.

 

[faddy]

The main reason it's worded that way is to avoid people attempting to use services of other operators at invalid times.

Other operators being operators of connecting services, or operators over alternative routes, or both? I do realise that I couldn't e.g. depart Euston for Crewe in the evening peak on an LM train.

What I'm not clear about is whether travelling on an Off-Peak SVR Euston -> Birkenhead, departing Euston during the evening peak, changing (for no good reason) to LM at Crewe, either LM or Merseyrail could, or would be likely to, object to my ticket.

 

[bb21]

Both I suspect.

 

[kieron]

What I'm not clear about is whether travelling on an Off-Peak SVR Euston -> Birkenhead, departing Euston during the evening peak, changing (for no good reason) to LM at Crewe, either LM or Merseyrail could, or would be likely to, object to my ticket.

The ticket in question says when you can leave Euston, or a few other stations in the southeast. No-one on a Birmingham-Liverpool train will know that you left Euston during the evening peak unless you tell them, so I doubt they'd ever ask.

I don't know if you'd have trouble on the Virgin service with a ticket for a journey which cannot be completed on their trains, though.

 

[andrewkeith5]

I don't know if you'd have trouble on the Virgin service with a ticket for a journey which cannot be completed on their trains, though.

I've only ever been told that you have to have a ticket that has both Origin and Destination as a station that Virgin calls at...

 

[kieron]

I've only ever been told that you have to have a ticket that has both Origin and Destination as a station that Virgin calls at...

Faddy's example was London-Birkenhead, hence my comment.

 

[faddy]

The ticket in question says when you can leave Euston, or a few other stations in the southeast. No-one on a Birmingham-Liverpool train will know that you left Euston during the evening peak unless you tell them, so I doubt they'd ever ask.

I don't know if you'd have trouble on the Virgin service with a ticket for a journey which cannot be completed on their trains, though.

Would a reasonable formulation of the situation in practice be "provided that all travel on any leg of the journey that would otherwise be subject to a time restriction is on Virgin Trains services only"?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Would a reasonable formulation of the situation in practice be "provided that all travel on any leg of the journey that would otherwise be subject to a time restriction is on Virgin Trains services only"?

No - that wouldn't solve the issue where the time restriction is framed in terms of "not valid on trains timed to arrive in London before xx:yy" and there is no additional restriction on the connecting leg.

Edit to clarify - while there might technically be no restriction on the connecting train in such a situation, in practice there is an effective restriction, because passengers are not going to want to take a (technically permitted) really early connecting train and then hang around for ages at an intermediate station, waiting for a train to London that the ticket is valid on.

I seem to remember there was anecdotal evidence that Arriva Trains Wales were unhappy about this sort of thing.

 

[CyrusWuff]

In practice, the restriction is enforced by Ticket Issuing Systems (assuming the clerk doesn't override it). So they'll show a discounted ticket as being valid for London - Manchester in the peak, for example, but not for London - Bolton via Manchester.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

In practice, the restriction is enforced by Ticket Issuing Systems (assuming the clerk doesn't override it). So they'll show a discounted ticket as being valid for London - Manchester in the peak, for example, but not for London - Bolton via Manchester.

Cubic Fastis will not allow it because it ties a ticket up with a journey plan, even if the journey plan is not actually being used. Thus the system thinks that, for example, a ticket from London to Bolton will be used from London to Bolton, and therefore must use a service that is not operated by Virgin Trains, and so is therefore not valid at 'peak time'.

Fujitsu STAR and, IIRC, Shere Smart do not use a journey planner when issuing tickets (a journey planner can deposit tickets into the TIS 'basket' though), thus no 'override' is required.

I presume Advantix is one that does not use a journey planner, though I have never used it, nor have I used Tribute so I'm not sure where that fits in.

 

[RJ]

Tribute has a journey planner function that will grey out restricted legs, but there's no need to select a plan to basket a ticket.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The actual rule is that the ticket, and the journey actually bring made, must be on Virgin Trains. Thus Preston - London direct on Virgin is allowed, Preston to London via Manchester (which will involve TPE or Northern) is not valid. Preston to London would be valid whilst Blackpool to London on the same train would not, as the journey on your ticket cannot be made entirely on Virgin Trains.

 

[RJ]

That's how I understand it too - another ticket is required to cover any legs where travel will be by a different TOC.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's how I understand it too - another ticket is required to cover any legs where travel will be by a different TOC.

That's my understanding of it too, but wasn't the OP's question about whether or not this aspect is actually being enforced?

 

[yorkie]

It's not, and it's not enforceable. Providing, of course, you stick to connecting trains that would be valid anyway.