Virgin m-tickets

[mattdickinson]

Virgin have announced that they will be extending m-tickets to all of their network for all ticket types.

The timescale is:

The m-Ticket offering will go live on the following dates:

•23 February: West coast journeys can be booked via the app for mobile m-Ticket fulfilment (excluding season tickets)

•1 March: East coast journeys can be booked via the east coast website for mobile m-Ticket fulfilment (Applies to all routes and ticket types except journeys to Leeds, Stevenage and North of Edinburgh where m-Tickets are available on Advance fares only). Excludes season ticket holders.

•Early April: the Virgin Trains app and the Virgin Trains (east coast) website will both sell m-Tickets for both franchises.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good, though to be truly useful it also needs LM and TPE to accept.

 

[Haywain]

I don't have the full details to hand, but I am pretty sure that TPE already accept interavailable m-Tickets across most of their network as part of a gradual roll-out of such tickets that started in the north-east.

 

[Hadders]

What about through tickets. One of my fears about smart tickets is that they will end up being abolished.

 

[yorkie]

Will they be routed "Any Permitted" or other inter-available routeing, as appropriate?

I hope they're not valid on Virgin Only at the same price as the current inter-available fares!

 

[Hadders]

Will they be routed "Any Permitted" or other inter-available routeing, as appropriate?

I hope they're not valid on Virgin Only at the same price as the current inter-available fares!

Of course they'll be Virgin Only as they will say this it is simple and what everyone wants. Meanwhile our flexibility gets eroded...

 

[LowLevel]

All train operators must accept valid M tickets even if they don't issue them themselves as this is required by rail settlement plan - been briefed on it recently.

Most I've come across haven't been valid on our trains though.

 

[Haywain]

The m-tickets referred to in the recent announcement by Virgin are current flexible and interavailable tickets - simply m-Ticket versions of the fares already in the fares database. As part of a phased introduction it would seem expedient to introduce them initially where there are likely to be the least problems.

I do not see any erosion of customer rights when things like break of journey, flexibility, refunds and splitting are all still permitted with m-Tickets or, in the case of splitting, with a mixture of m-Tickets and paper tickets.

This does seem to be a step forward in the elimination of paper tickets, although reports of their death may be greatly exaggerated!

 

[gordonthemoron]

why do only some of the newer barriers have m-ticket scanners?

 

[Bletchleyite]

All train operators must accept valid M tickets even if they don't issue them themselves as this is required by rail settlement plan - been briefed on it recently.

Most I've come across haven't been valid on our trains though.

So LM and fTPE accept them, even if the VT app won't issue them if you select LM or fTPE trains?

 

[OwlMan]

From Virgin Site - it looks like only Virgin accept M-tickets

Things you should know before you choose an m-ticket



Once you've bought an m-ticket, it cannot be exchanged or refunded.
So remember:

• You'll need to activate your m-ticket on the day of travel, from within the app, and show it to inspectors while on the train.
• Don't forget to charge your mobile – if you are unable to display your m-ticket, you’ll need to buy a new ticket at the full fare.

What services are m-tickets available for?
As of 23 February 2016, m-tickets are now available for all tickets on Virgin Trains services along the West Coast Mainline.


Lost or not received your m-ticket?
Your m-ticket is saved in the ‘My Tickets’ section of the Virgin Trains app. If it hasn't appeared after two hours, or you lose your phone (touch wood this doesn’t happen), please give our After Sales team a call on 03445 56 56 50. Calls are charged at standard BT rates. Other operators may vary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cannot be exchanged or refunded despite being full fare?

They can keep that, then, unless the fare is under £10.

 

[itfcfan]

This page on National Rail suggests m-tickets are also accepted on London Midland on "participating routes":
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/100261.aspx

 

[LexyBoy]

If it hasn't appeared after two hours, or you lose your phone (touch wood this doesn’t happen), please give our After Sales team a call on 03445 56 56 50.

Sounds like a great basis to issue tickets! "Lets hope nothing goes wrong eh, but if it does call us and we'll make up something on the spot. Oh wait, you haven't got a phone...".

Sounds dreadful and entirely as expected from smart ticketing, which I remain convinced is seen as a route to remove inconvenient rights and flexibility passengers currently enjoy. Who needs flexibility anyway - it's not as if the train is competing with private cars.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They have the Trainline 2 hour delay? Crikey.

That removes any possible use-case for me, then. The only use case I have for m-ticketing is purchasing a walk-up on the way to the station on the bus/in a taxi to save time on arrival there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sounds dreadful and entirely as expected from smart ticketing, which I remain convinced is seen as a route to remove inconvenient rights and flexibility passengers currently enjoy. Who needs flexibility anyway - it's not as if the train is competing with private cars.

There is absolutely no reason it cannot be implemented on the same terms as paper tickets. SBB do this using exactly the same type of technology.

 

[Harlesden]

Do m-tickets work with an iPad. There is no SMS facility on an iPad AFAIK

 

[LexyBoy]

There is absolutely no reason it cannot be implemented on the same terms as paper tickets. SBB do this using exactly the same type of technology.

Of course there isn't - smart tickets could allow much more flexibility and better terms than paper tickets. The point is that there's no inclination to do this - on the contrary, their introduction has been made with additional restrictions.

 

[gordonthemoron]

if you haven't activated the ticket, can you get a refund?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do m-tickets work with an iPad. There is no SMS facility on an iPad AFAIK

Do they use SMS to deliver them? Can't see why they would.

 

[Haywain]

Do m-tickets work with an iPad. There is no SMS facility on an iPad AFAIK

m-Tickets are fulfilled through an app, not by SMS. If the app can be downloaded to the device then it can be used for m-Tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

if you haven't activated the ticket, can you get a refund?

Not according to their spiel, but it could of course be wrong.

 

[Haywain]

Sounds dreadful and entirely as expected from smart ticketing, which I remain convinced is seen as a route to remove inconvenient rights and flexibility passengers currently enjoy. Who needs flexibility anyway - it's not as if the train is competing with private cars.

No removal of rights or flexibility.

So LM and fTPE accept them, even if the VT app won't issue them if you select LM or fTPE trains?

Yes.

Cannot be exchanged or refunded despite being full fare?

They can keep that, then, unless the fare is under £10.

Fully refundable, as with the equivalent paper tickets.

They have the Trainline 2 hour delay? Crikey.

That removes any possible use-case for me, then. The only use case I have for m-ticketing is purchasing a walk-up on the way to the station on the bus/in a taxi to save time on arrival there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There is absolutely no reason it cannot be implemented on the same terms as paper tickets. SBB do this using exactly the same type of technology.

No 2-hour delay - "customers wanting to buy their tickets on the day can download the app via the free Virgin Trains station Wi-Fi, avoid queues, and select their ticket via a simpler interface than ticket machines". Implemented on the same terms as paper tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not according to their spiel, but it could of course be wrong.

It's wrong!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Dare I suggest that they could just implement that "simpler interface" on the TVMs?

 

[Haywain]

Dare I suggest that they could just implement that "simpler interface" on the TVMs?

You can suggest anything you like.

 

[LexyBoy]

No removal of rights or flexibility.

Well, if nobody's going to be challenged on presenting a ticket on the Virgin app when travelling on LM, TPE, XC, GWR, Chiltern or any of the other operators which the ticket is valid on then that's great.

If these m-tickets have the same validity as a paper ticket, why are Virgin stating otherwise?

 

[Haywain]

Well, if nobody's going to be challenged on presenting a ticket on the Virgin app when travelling on LM, TPE, XC, GWR, Chiltern or any of the other operators which the ticket is valid on then that's great.

I can't say that people won't be challenged, but as we have seen from many other threads being challenged is not what determines the validity of a ticket. They are interavailable tickets fulfilled to an app on a mobile device rather than to a paper ticket.

If these m-tickets have the same validity as a paper ticket, why are Virgin stating otherwise?

Virgin Trains have been involved in an ATOC-sponsored trial accepting interavailable m-Tickets in the north of England for some months. In view of this the inaccuracies on their website are disappointing. But I am confident in saying that they lack the appropriate information about these tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So why, then, won't their app flog me one if I select an Any Permitted ticket on a LM train?

 

[yorkie]

Because the wrong instructions were given to their programmers? This would not be surprising.

 

[LowLevel]

So LM and fTPE accept them, even if the VT app won't issue them if you select LM or fTPE trains?

As I understand - TPE certainly issue their own as well (from the Trainline if I recall correctly). As I say - my TOC (which is neither of those) doesn't issue m tickets but we have had a brief on them and instructions on how to switch away from the barcode as we don't have readers/check activation as we may come across some that are valid on our trains particularly in disruption.

 

[LexyBoy]

Well, if the available information states it's not available, and staff on-board say it's not available, then it could enter the realm of RJ-style loopholes: valid, but unusable for all but the determined.

Here's hoping things are clarified for the better, soon.