Virgin guard acts disgracefully?

[yorkie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-whip-round-pensioners-115-penalty-fare.html

A train guard threatened a passenger with arrest after he went to the aid of a sobbing pensioner who had boarded the wrong train.
Lena Ainscow, 75, was left in tears when she was ordered to pay £115 for a new ticket to London.
When fellow passenger Tom Wrigglesworth stepped in to organise a whip-round to help her, the guard said his actions were akin to begging and warned him that police would be called in.
The incident happened on Thursday after Mrs Ainscow set out from her home in Bolton on a trip via Manchester and London to see her daughter Carol Battersby, who lives in Bromley, Kent.
Mrs Ainscow had bought an £11.50 pre-booked ticket for the 10.45am Virgin service from Manchester to Euston.

But her printed travel itinerary stated she was booked on the 10.15am service and when she asked staff what she should do about the error they told her to board the earlier train....

I'd like to see what was on her itinery before commenting further. But, if true, it sounds absolutely disgraceful by Virgin...

 

[Mintona]

Not absolutely disgraceful by Virgin, but by one of their TMs. Can't blame the whole compny for one person.

 

[spoony]

I tell you what is disgraceful, £115 single from Manchester to London

 

[yorkie]

Not absolutely disgraceful by Virgin, but by one of their TMs. Can't blame the whole compny for one person.

So who trained the TM? Who checks TMs are not unfairly treating passengers? Virgin have had a few reports of poor customer service so either it's not just one person or that person was not delt with.

 

[Chilled Phill]

Eh? Why is she paying for a ticket all the way to London, why not just pay for a ticket to Stoke-on-Trent or Macclesfield where she could get off next...or perhaps I'm missing something here. Not the first time if it is, eh?

EDIT: Yes, I know. :cry:

Anyway, it is a bit off to be force to pay three digits just for boarding the wrong train...

 

[Phoenix]

I definatly don't blame the company but what an (censored) absolutaly funking piece of shizzle I actually wonder how these prat heads even get their job's honestly I hope she get's the sack or even better Hemorrhoids!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about the outburst but it's terrible how someone can be so cold hearted and thank god there are people like that bloke who were willing to help.

 

[djw1981]

Hmm the so-called Good Samaritan is a publicity hungry stand-up comic; me thinks he now has more publicity than ever before..... cynical, moi?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.theherald.co.uk/business/news/display.var.2458920.0.Stagecoach_prepares_for_downturn.php

Stagecoach has started identifying "soft costs" in the business, chief executive Brian Souter said, which could be trimmed if the company came under pressure.

Stagecoach has indicated it will not be promoting the expanded timetable being adopted on the west coast main line between Glasgow and London in the New Year because it is worried about track operator Network Rail's ability to cope.

Changes on the route, which is operated by Virgin Trains in which Stagecoach has a 49% stake, should cut journey times between Glasgow and London by 30 minutes to four-and-a-half hours, and mean an additional four trains running in either direction to take the total to 13.

Stagecoach is content that around 95% of the infrastructure is in place for the upgrade but is concerned that levels of disruption currently being experienced on the route could mean a massive drop in performance when more trains starts running.

Maybe someone has remembered that the other way to maintain profit [other than cutting costs] is to raise income....... compensation from NR and harsh application of ticket restrictions. I wonder what responsibility the platform staff have, or whether they only give 'advice' and it is the traveling equivalent of caveat empor on ebay.

 

[metrocammel]

Well, if that ticket at the bottom of the news article is correct, the TM can be identified by the number on the Avantix ticket, Im not sure which way round the numbers are, one is unique to the Avantix machine, and one is the guards number- so 'his' number is either 3530 or 1435 - it'd be interesting to see who this individual is- and I wander if other people have had problems with him!

Eh? Why is she paying for a ticket all the way to London, why not just pay for a ticket to Stoke-on-Trent or Macclesfield where she could get off next...or perhaps I'm missing something here. Not the first time if it is, eh?

A TM coming round before Stoke is almost unheard of on the Manchester- London pendos. I think the last time I was gripped BEFORE Stoke was back when mk3s and seven's ruled the roost!!!

 

[Mintona]

So who trained the TM? Who checks TMs are not unfairly treating passengers? Virgin have had a few reports of poor customer service so either it's not just one person or that person was not delt with.

Hold on. To lay the blame at the door of one huge multinational company because one of their TMs was quite probably just having a bad day is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[crewmeal]

Agreed - she is a disgrace to the Company and should work in a prison. Hopefully customers won't tar all TM's with the same brush after this incident.

Whilst on a similar note, living and working in Jordan as an English teacher, I've heard of some horror stories from students who visited the UK recently, and because of a lack of English had a bad time with rail staff in the London area!!

 

[yorkie]

Hold on. To lay the blame at the door of one huge multinational company because one of their TMs was quite probably just having a bad day is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

The fact that Virgin Group is "multinational" is irrelevant; I am blaming Virgin Trains for, as I said earlier, either not acting if it is the same person or it is several people. This is not the only example of poor customer service. Are you saying you don't believe me? I could trawl through archives and provide several examples if necessary...

As for the most "ridiculous" thing you've ever heard, well I'm quite astounded by that!

Whilst on a similar note, living and working in Jordan as an English teacher, I've heard of some horror stories from students who visited the UK recently, and because of a lack of English had a bad time with rail staff in the London area!!

Not a good advert for Britain are they? Best thing to do is to show solidarity and explain that many good British people are treated just as badly by such jobsworths them at times.

 

[Ascot]

Now that's what you call a Jobsworth

 

[yorkie]

I would say "it was probably the infamous Gordon" but apparently he retired a few years ago. But he was allowed to harrass customers for many years, unchallenged.

Maybe your mate Colin has become a TM? Although I don't think he'd be so rude - he was unknowledgable and refused to look up restriction codes. Probably just badly trained rather than a horrible person.

 

[Ascot]

I would say "it was probably the infamous Gordon" but apparently he retired a few years ago. But he was allowed to harrass customers for many years, unchallenged.

Maybe your mate Colin has become a TM? Although I don't think he'd be so rude - he was unknowledgable and refused to look up restriction codes. Probably just badly trained rather than a horrible person.

Aw he's retired? Wouldn't be surprised if Colin was head of department with all the money he takes "if it's a Saver it's not valid full stop".

 

[Spaceflower]

The country's gone MAD I say........it's the recession you see.............

Hollywood couldn't have made this one up. Virgins fault for telling staff to strictly enforce penalty fares? Come on, some descretion is needed here. She had a pre-booked ticket so she obviously wasn't trying to 'bump' the fare. Luckily, there was a good samaritan there to step in and help, but why was he penalised for this? Well, he was a comedian, my guess, the TM was male and a little ego was involved..........................

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Mrs Ainscow had bought an £11.50 pre-booked ticket for the 10.45am Virgin service from Manchester to Euston.

But her printed travel itinerary stated she was booked on the 10.15am service and when she asked staff what she should do about the error they told her to board the earlier train.

The blame can't fully go on the TM here, we also have the ticket seller who gave the wrong itinerary, we have the station staff who couldn't decipher the ticket, and we have the lady who doesn't know what train she booked.

Perhaps they issue different tickets where she got it, but when I sell a pre-booked ticket, it comes with a reservation ticket, with the train time on. If the staff at the station she boarded at (Piccadilly?) didn't know which train it was valid on, they should have checked with some one that did. The fact that the TM could figure it out suggests that the station staff didn't know what to look for on the ticket.

As for the conduct on board the train, yes the TM was right to tell the other person they are not allowed to do what they did, yes she was right to tell the passenger her ticket wasn't valid on that service, but how she dealt with that and how those things were said, is an entirely different matter. As I have said before, there are three sides to every story, your side, their side and the truth.

The TM could have agreed it was just a mistake and let it go, but then what if ten more people claimed the same thing or she went on other trains with the same story? It sets a dangerous precident. How can the TM know what was said to her before she boarded the train?

 

[furryfeet]

virgin management SHOULD take some of the blame.
After all, they should be training their staff to act reasonably and give a decent standard of customer service.

It is the same in any organisation - if a subordinate is not performing, then by implication his supervisor is not performing either.

 

[Metroland]

I'd agree with the people that say 1) You can't blame all of Virgin the actions of one TM 2) There are three sides to these stories 3) If true, discretion was needed.

Again, I wouldn't get *too*worked up what you read in the Daily Mail. To blame a whole group of people because of the perceptions caused by press reporting because of a few individuals is a little silly in my honest opinion. They *may* have forgot to omit that the 'customers' got very aggressive, we just don't know from that one report and is a waste of energy going on a crusade about it.

There are a number of posts on this forum calling others 'stupid', I would politely suggest that you apply for some of these jobs and see how you get on, it may give you a different perspective. It doesn't mean you are wrong, but very often there are always compromises and more than meets the eye to the matters.

To prove the point in being suspicious about the press here is a good example.

Two days ago the Financial times reported:

'Shares in Stagecoach are about as close to gilts as one can get in the current economic environment, the chief executive of the strongly cash-generative transport group said.

The privately operated public transport sector was one of only a handful that was thriving under current economic conditions, said Brian Souter, who established the bus and rail group in Scotland '

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6cc83be-95.../www.transportinfo.org.uk/?fd_date=2008-10-09

Meanwhile the Times reported

'Stagecoach Group, which runs South West Trains, London's biggest commuter franchise, is preparing to shed staff in response to the economic difficulties that are expected to take a huge toll on jobs in the capital.

Brian Souter, who founded the Perth-based bus and train company 28 years ago, said that no decisions had been taken but that any responsible company would seek to control costs in the face of a downturn. Stagecoach employs about 30,000 people. '

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4909606.ece

Clearly, two completely different takes on one press release!

 

[Mintona]

The fact that Virgin Group is "multinational" is irrelevant; I am blaming Virgin Trains for, as I said earlier, either not acting if it is the same person or it is several people. This is not the only example of poor customer service. Are you saying you don't believe me? I could trawl through archives and provide several examples if necessary...

As for the most "ridiculous" thing you've ever heard, well I'm quite astounded by that!

I know full well this is not the first time a member of Virgin Trains staff has let the company down. I am not condoning what they did, I think the TM should have used some discretion. But you still can't blame Virgin as a company.

It is quite plausible that something had happened that morning, maybe not something major, but something had happened to make the TM upset/angry. Maybe they had had a stressful trip down to Manchester, with a number of fare evaders. Maybe people sitting in FC with standard class tickets. I don't know, it could have been their first job of the day. But something could well have happened which made them think "right, screw them. They will all have correct tickets on this train, no matter what the circumstances are." Maybe it's not the right attitude to have, but it could have been this one morning only, yet because this woman has gone to the press it has all been turned around to make this one TM look as bad as possible. And remember, they were only doing their job.

 

[metrocammel]

It is quite plausible that something had happened that morning, maybe not something major, but something had happened to make the TM upset/angry. Maybe they had had a stressful trip down to Manchester, with a number of fare evaders. Maybe people sitting in FC with standard class tickets. I don't know, it could have been their first job of the day. But something could well have happened which made them think "right, screw them. They will all have correct tickets on this train, no matter what the circumstances are." Maybe it's not the right attitude to have, but it could have been this one morning only, yet because this woman has gone to the press it has all been turned around to make this one TM look as bad as possible. And remember, they were only doing their job.

That is absolutely no excuse for treating other passengers any different though. A well trained, professionally acting member of staff would not let things such as 'people sitting in first class with standard tickets' effect his/ her judgment of other unrelated issues.

 

[Mintona]

That is absolutely no excuse for treating other passengers any different though. A well trained, professionally acting member of staff would not let things such as 'people sitting in first class with standard tickets' effect his/ her judgment of other unrelated issues.

At which point did I say they would? I didn't say it was right. I said it is not necessarily an everyday occurence for the TM, and they might have simply been having a bad day.

 

[Metroland]

Either way, it says an investigation is going on. And no doubt if the TM did act badly then they will be disciplined - it's really up to the supervisors to decide given the evidence presented.

 

[Coradia]

Hang on, this whole news article in completely flawed! This looks like a 'lets have a go at a company' story. It shows a nice big picture of the £115 ticket. But where is the picture of the actual £11.50 one? Did that go missing?

What exactly is meant by a 'printed travel itinerary', sounds to me like the A4 peice of paper they print off with your seat reservation on it that they give you at the station (I know Piccadilly do this).

If she had the advanced ticket, it surely would have come with a compulsory seat reservation ticket with a code matching to the advanced ticket. If that seat was valid for the 10:15, then yes, that onboard guy was an idiot. But I wouldn't be suprised if the reservation ticket was for the original 10:45.

Im not saying that this guy did nowt wrong (Ive been threatened by authorities myself by security guards n'all that), but I don't think all truth is there with this story.

 

[djw1981]

Could the 'itinerary' have been for a 1015 train from her home station, changing at Manchester Picc for the 1045 train?

 

[TheSlash]

Well, if that ticket at the bottom of the news article is correct, the TM can be identified by the number on the Avantix ticket, Im not sure which way round the numbers are, one is unique to the Avantix machine, and one is the guards number- so 'his' number is either 3530 or 1435 - it'd be interesting to see who this individual is- and I wander if other people have had problems with him!

1A38

 

[rail-britain]

Without seeing the original disputed ticket, it's all speculation
However, I too experienced a similar problem where one of the tickets was not printed correctly
I presented this ticket BEFORE travelling, and it was stamped by the station staff as "Valid for travel - exception applies"

Apparently this has been an ongoing problem with the tickets printed in Edinburgh, usually happens to every fourth ticket!

1A38 : I've got this as a VT service between Bangor and London Euston, doesn't go anywhere near Manchester!

 

[mrcheek]

Interesting how every time one of these articles comes along, somebody on this site deconstructs the article, points out the obvious flaws, and states that the story we are told could actually not have happened.

Good.

I like scepticism. But I wonder if these obsessive rail enthusiasts deconstruct news articles about other matters in the same way. If so, then railfans are probably also conspiracy theorists who refuse to believe what we have been told by the "official" media over the Kennedy assassinations, the moon landing, global warming, evolution, and the holocaust!

Like I said, good!

 

[Tom B]

Either way, it says an investigation is going on. And no doubt if the TM did act badly then they will be disciplined - it's really up to the supervisors to decide given the evidence presented.

Exactly. Whilst it seems silly when printed in the Wail, it's just that - a story in the Daily Wail, who are known to hype stuff up.

If she's been told something by the staff at the station, though, the gripper ought to have let her by and spoken to the staff there. I had a problem with a saver ticket which I was told I could use on the 08.30 train from London - the gripper however accepted I'd been told false information and said all was fine and dandy.

This said the staff at Doncaster didn't notice the fact that I was showing them a railcard which ran out in July with a ticket which I presented in September recently. (I did have a valid railcard, but that was behind the out of date one. I traveled every day for about 2 months and nobody noticed it...).

 

[Metroland]

Interesting how every time one of these articles comes along, somebody on this site deconstructs the article, points out the obvious flaws, and states that the story we are told could actually not have happened.

Good.

I like scepticism. But I wonder if these obsessive rail enthusiasts deconstruct news articles about other matters in the same way. If so, then railfans are probably also conspiracy theorists who refuse to believe what we have been told by the "official" media over the Kennedy assassinations, the moon landing, global warming, evolution, and the holocaust!

Like I said, good!

And roughly how reliable would you say the Daily Mail was? Don't think anyone said it didn't happen, but I'll wager some information was 'missed out' there somewhere. I would say none of the paper media in this country can be relied upon as a 'reliable source' as they all have a well known, and quite legal, political stance with editors that get off shaping public opinion. No conspiracy required.

 

[mrcheek]

And roughly how reliable would you say the Daily Mail was? Don't think anyone said it didn't happen, but I'll wager some information was 'missed out' there somewhere. I would say none of the paper media in this country can be relied upon as a 'reliable source' as they all have a well known, and quite legal, political stance with editors that get off shaping public opinion. No conspiracy required.

Like I said, I think its a good thing that you question what they say, and wholly agree with you on the reliabilty of the Daily Mail. One of their best articles lately was something along the lines of "Elderly evicted to house asylum seekers", which told of how all the residents of an old peoples home had been evicted, and asylum seekers housed there. the truth was that the home was appallingly run, and unfit for the elderly, so it was shut down. but someone realised that different rules applied to asylum seekers, so they COULD be housed in poor conditions!

anyway, good for you all! but I do hope you apply the same criteria to other articles, and question stories that dont involve rail. the truth is out there. always believe a man who is seeking the truth. always be suspicious of someone who claims to have found it.