Virgin East Coast Super Off Peak offer query

[Grinner]

Hi there, long term lurker and occasional poster here with a query, can't see that anybody has asked this before but apologies if I've missed it.

I’m looking at travelling one way between Sheffield and Edinburgh on Sunday 13th March. I could do with being flexible on times, so logically I should buy an Off-peak single at £117.50. However I see that Virgin East Coast offer “Super Off Peak” tickets for journeys to/from London, making London to Edinburgh £66.65.

Is the Super Off Peak valid for joining a London to Edinburgh train at Doncaster (or indeed on a connecting service from Sheffield)? The Ts &Cs (https://tickets.virgintrainseastcoast.com/ec/en/tickettandc/S/SSS.aspx) say that “A break of journey is permitted unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's Restriction Code.” But unless I buy the ticket how do I see what the code is for the ticket?

The ticket seems to be this one here http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=KGX&dest=EDB&grpo=1072&tkt=SSH, although that is £1 more, which seems to indicate that a break of journey is okay?

 

[button_boxer]

To my eyes it looks like it should be valid but staff may not like it. Also note that those single-at-half-the-return-price tickets can only be booked as part of a return journey so in the same transaction you'd have to also buy the cheapest Edinburgh to London Advance ticket you can find.

 

[Starmill]

I am not aware of any BoJ restictions with these two ticket types. Others will correct me here if necessary.

If the tickets are routed "Any Permitted", as I believe they are, you may follow any route permitted by the National Routing Guide (in addition to through trains and the shortest route). What you propose would appear to be within the bounds of this.

It's important we be clear on the two different offers though. Virgin Trains offer an 'Off-Peak Single' (SVH) ticket for purchase with some other single ticket in the other direction, at half of the SVR (Off-Peak Return) price. Virgin Trains East Coast offer a Super Off-Peak Single (SSH) at half the price of a Super Off-Peak Return, which does not come with such a requirement (typically this will cost more per mile though).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The SSH is only available if you buy it with another ticket (an Advance, usually, but can be something else like an Anytime Single if that is useful) as part of a return journey. It is otherwise the same as a SSS with Break of Journey permitted. Basically the same as West Coast do SVHs.

This was basically done to deal with the problem that there would rarely be any point buying an Advance unless you were able to plan your journey to buy an Advance in both directions.

The reason for the difference from West Coast is that GNER used to have "Business Savers" which became the SVS/R, while the "Saver" became the SSS/R. Whereas West Coast didn't, so the "Saver" became SVS/R.

Edit: It further appears that there is an option to buy a fare at that price online only without buying a return half at present. I suspect this is the same ticket. As Break of Journey is permitted I see no reason for you not to be able to do what you wish provided it is valid via that route.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The SSH is only available if you buy it with another ticket (an Advance, usually, but can be something else like an Anytime Single if that is useful) as part of a return journey. It is otherwise the same as a SSS with Break of Journey permitted. Basically the same as West Coast do SVHs.

No, you can buy the VTEC super off-peak single with the 50% discount as a stand-alone ticket, but only through the VTEC website.

 

[Starmill]

The SSH is only available if you buy it with another ticket (an Advance, usually, but can be something else like an Anytime Single if that is useful) as part of a return journey. It is otherwise the same as a SSS with Break of Journey permitted. Basically the same as West Coast do SVHs.

My emphasis: to be clear, this is not the case with East Coast SSH tickets. This is only the case with West Coast SVH tickets. I believe Haywain pointed this out to you only a few days ago!

 

[Grinner]

Thanks for the replies folks.

The ticket seems to be fine to buy on it's own (see screenshot), but I'm a wee bit concerned that it may not be the same ticket that I've found on BRFares given the slight price difference (£67.75 vs £66.65)so how do I check the restriction codes for sure?

(edit to crop image of screenshot)

 

[Bletchleyite]

My emphasis: to be clear, this is not the case with East Coast SSH tickets. This is only the case with West Coast SVH tickets. I believe Haywain pointed this out to you only a few days ago!

VTEC's latest publicity email says:

The Super Off Peak Single
Ever seen Batman on a packed rush-hour train? Do as he does and ride Super Off-Peak Single tickets, which are half price when booked online as part of a return journey.

Clearly they've got it wrong, but what am I to believe if not the company's own publicity!

 

[Starmill]

Or it could be that we should expect changes on this front very soon.

Thanks for the replies folks.

The ticket seems to be fine to buy on it's own (see screenshot), but I'm a wee bit concerned that it may not be the same ticket that I've found on BRFares given the slight price difference (£67.75 vs £66.65)so how do I check the restriction codes for sure?

(edit to crop image of screenshot)

I think it is the same ticket and there is a small online discount.

The way to check is to visit nationalrail.co.uk/XX replacing XX with the restriction code printed on the face of the ticket, found opposite the 'Validity' label. BRFares is not an accredited source and frequently displays out of date restriction information because the TOCs make changes more frequently than BRFares can be updated. For example, its defenition of SO and the one at www.nationalrail.co.uk/SO are rather different!

 

[Grinner]

Thanks again for all the replies.

www.nationalrail.co.uk/SO[/url] are rather different!

Cheers for that info, I realise that BRfares is not a recognised source but didn't know how to find the information on National Rail. However as I've not bought the ticket yet there's no way of knowing the code I assume?

That said it looks like this is a goer for what I'm trying to do so cheers.

 

[Romilly]

I am sure that these VTEC web-only super offpeak singles used to come with a restriction on break of journey, but I certainly can't find any current reference to such a restriction.

But my real reason for posting is to suggest delaying your ticket purchase. You can still get reasonable Advances for this coming Sunday for less than the super offpeak single. So, if you are likely to know your travel plans at least a couple of days before the time of travel, you may better off waiting until then and not buying the super offpeak single until you have checked the availability of Advances.

 

[Grinner]

Romiley, fair point, I've no intention of buying right now, was scoping out options really.

 

[yorkie]

Starting/finishing short is lumped in with Break of journey, ie if BoJ is permitted then starting/finishing short is too.

The NRCoC makes it very clear that we can "Start, break or resume your journey using trains on which your ticket is valid unless you are told about particular restrictions that apply to the use of your ticket" and I've just done a 'dummy' booking up to the payment page, and nowhere was I told of any such restriction.

Therefore, no such restriction applies.

The problem with making a huge deal out of avoiding an unfair fare, it is that some unsavoury individuals in the industry may attempt to put a stop on whatever methods you are using to avoid that unfair charge. Whether or not the likes of CrossCountry would try, or could succeed, in doing something to stop the sale of these tickets, or get restrictions added to them, I don't know.

 

[miami]

I suspect that as more and more people realise it, they'll introduce BOJ restrictions on singles and the outbound of returns, same as they did with Wales and Lancaster tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To me it is about time this trial (which is what I think it is) was rolled out across the network.

 

[Haywain]

These tickets are intended to be sold as part of a return journey, but at present this is not enforced. Once that is enforced break of journey restrictions shouldn't be required as the need to buy the other ticket will remove the incentive to buy the single for a shorter journey.