Virgin advance fares

[alexjames]

I need to get to Wigan and back on 17 January.

For the last three weeks or so, Virgin's website has been showing advance tix as more expensive than off peak for the same train.

That seems wrong. I emailed Virgin to query it about a fortnight ago but got nothing other than an automated acknowlegement.

Anybody know whether these clowns are doing it intentionally or, if not, how to get them to do something about it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: Does seem silly that buying Advance tickets there and back (which are only valid on specific trains) works out more expensive than walk-up Off-Peak return fare.

Also seems silly that on certain southbound trains from Wigan that day, a first class advance ticket is cheaper than the standard class equivalent.

Guess that's quotas for you!

 

[tony_mac]

but they shouldn't have advance singles that are more expensive than the off-peak / anytime single that is valid for the same train.

The only reason they can have for those tickets is to profit from people who get confused by the system and make a mistake.

I have also been waiting for over two weeks for a reply from Virgin - their 'passenger's charter' says that they will reply within 10 working days.

 

[gordonthemoron]

bought ticket from Nottingham to London for 12th December, Super Off Peak return was cheaper than two advance singles

 

[Geezertronic]

I have also been waiting for over two weeks for a reply from Virgin - their 'passenger's charter' says that they will reply within 10 working days.

Two weeks is usually considered 10 working days (which excludes weekends)

Since VT have revamped their website, I have tended to find that thetrainline.com will on occasion have lower prices for Advance Tickets on VirginTrains services even though the VirginTrains website is operated by thetrainline.com

An example of this is the 1823 service from London Euston to Birmingham International tomorrow where the VT website price for a First Class ticket is £88.50 and the same ticket on thetrainline.com is £69.00... how strange? Even with the booking fee via thetrainline.com of £1, you're still saving money!

 

[yorkie]

but they shouldn't have advance singles that are more expensive than the off-peak / anytime single that is valid for the same train.

The only reason they can have for those tickets is to profit from people who get confused by the system and make a mistake.

I agree. I feel that we have enough knowledge on this forum to do the TOCs some serious damage in Court, as many of their practices could be ruled unlawful. However we'd need cash for that. Unless anyone has the cash to take them to court, they will continue ripping people off in this way. They certainly don't care what passengers think!

 

[Failed Unit]

The mistake is easy to make now as well if you are booking via the trainline. The first page is now singles so people may book the 2x advance singles without checking to see if the return is cheaper first (or even noticing it as an option.) At the moment for example if you were travelling on Edinburgh - London you can buy 2 tickets quite easily more than the former business saver return.

The system east coast and Southern use is less likely to have this issue.

 

[alexjames]

Apologies for bumping my own thread but here's the email string between myself and the bacteria brains at Virgin customer services.

Never did get a straight answer from them and I'm posting it just on the off chance that somebody here is somehow unaware of how cretinous these people are.


Subject
17/01/2010

Discussion Thread
Response (Elton Westley) 18/12/2009 06:33 PM
Dear alex,

Thank you for writing back to us.

I understand that you wish to enquire why the First Advance fare is more costlier then a Off-Peak fare.

In the Advance ticket, there are many categories, the most economical Advance fare is available for £6.50 for then mentioned rout and there are about 15 categories of Advance ticket and the fares for these categories are different and the most expensive Advance fare for the mentioned rout is available for £77.50.

The same applies to the First Advance fare, the most economical First Advance fare is available for £36.00 and the most expensive First Advance fare is available for £130.00.

The advance fares are subject to availability and the later you book your ticket the more expensive Advance fares will be provided to you as the more economical fares get sold out very quickly due to their economical price. The Advance fare are subject to availability.

Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

Kind regards,

Elton

Customer (alexjames) 18/12/2009 03:26 PM
Gareth

When I requested that someone with a veneer of competence should have a go at my simple enquiry, I was hoping that the veneer would be more than half a micron in thickness.

"prices are set by Association of Train Operating companies" . So somebody at ATOC sets Virgin's prices. Its more than a tad insulting to have such nonsense aimed at me.

I easily tire of dealing with fools thus my trip from MKC to WIG will be by road.

Cheers

alex

Response (Gareth Adams) 11/12/2009 04:49 PM
Dear alex,

Thank you for writing back to us.

I sincerely apologise for the unsatisfactory response given to you by our agent.

Please note that the Advance Purchase tickets are released in quotas with different prices. It is not mandatory that the price of an Advance ticket will always be lower than the Walk On tickets. The price of an Advance ticket can be higher than the Walk On tickets. These prices are set by Association of Train Operating companies.

I hope the information above is helpful, please write back to us if you have any further query.

Kind regards,

Gareth

Customer (alexjames) 11/12/2009 01:42 PM
Ashley

What has cookies got to do with it?

Why do you not answer my question below about the difference, if any, between what you see on the site and what I see?

I've tried four different laptops and PCs since seeing your most recent mail. Each one generates the same wrong looking pricing for the journey stipulated.

Could you please refer this email string to someone with at least a veneer of competence.

Cheers

alex

Response (Ashley) 09/12/2009 07:38 PM
Dear alex,

Thank you for writing back to us.

Please delete the cookies and clear cache of your computer before proceeding with the booking. Please write back to us if you still find any discrepancies in ticket prices.

Please reply to this email if the information given does not answer your query so we can investigate this further.

Kind regards,

Ashley

Customer (alexjames) 09/12/2009 03:27 PM
Ashley

Are you saying that the info I see on your website is not the info that you are seeing?

Attached above.

Cheers

alex

==================== application File Attachment ====================
Virgin Trains Where do you want to be.mht, 671904 bytes, added to incident
Response (Ashley) 09/12/2009 02:48 PM
Dear alex,

Thank you for writing back to us.

I have checked and found that an Advance Single ticket for £17.50 from Milton Keynes Central to Wigan on the 0933 service for 1 adult. Whereas an Off-Peak ticket for the same journey is £50.70.

Please send us the screenshot of the page where you had encountered those fares so that we can investigate further.

Please reply to this email with the information so that we can investigate this further.

Kind regards,

Ashley
Customer (alexjames) 09/12/2009 01:41 PM
Ashley

The date I was enquiring about was in my email header: 17/01/10.

The route I was enquiring about was in the body of my email: MKC to WIG.

The timings are irrelevant - my point on the seeming reversal of Advance and Offpeak prices applies to more than one train but I was aiming for 11.32 outbound and returning on the 20.15.

The number of passengers is irrelevant to my enquiry but is two. The class of travel is irrelevant to my enquiry but its standard. The availability of a railcard discount is irrelevant to my enquiry but one of us has a 16/25 railcard.

Cheers

alex
Response (Ashley) 08/12/2009 05:29 PM
Dear alex,

Thank you for contacting Virgin Trains.

I understand that you wish to enquire about the best available fare for your journey.

In order to assist you better please send us more specific details of your journey with the following:
1) Date and time of journey
2) To and from station
3) Number of passengers
4) Class of travel
5) Railcard, if any etc.

Please reply to this email with the information so that we can investigate this further.

Kind regards,

Ashley



Customer (alexjames) 08/12/2009 02:34 PM
About a month ago, I emailed to ask whether it was intentional for you to show advance tickets as more expensive than offpeak on the MKC - WIG route.

Other than an automated acknowledgement, I have heard nothing.

This will be costing you sales thus a response would be appropriate.


______________________________________________________________________

 

[tony_mac]

Can you post the ip address that they came from? I guess from the responses that they may be using thetrainline's support - which is almost entirely useless.

My query regarding their website overcharging has not had any response in over a month. I have sent two reminders that this is contrary to their passenger's charter - with no response to those either.

 

[alexjames]

Not sure how I should find an IP address but the garbage was spewing from the email address below.

Virgin Trains Customer Support [sales.support.virgintrains@trainsfares.co.uk]

 

[devon_metro]

trainfares.co.uk is a trainline web address afaik.

 

[Geezertronic]

I would see if you get a price difference using the trainline website instead of the Virgin Trains website.

No one at Virgin Trains seems to give a damn that since the website upgrade, their website now shows different prices to those shown on thetrainline.com. I too have tried to have conversations with VT on the subject but get useless responses from them as well.

 

[alexjames]

I gave up on thetrainline when they started to charge for postage. Until I saw the same advice elsewhere on this site, I would have thought it obvious that Virgin and thetrainline would charge the same for identical journeys. They are both Virgin owned entities. But I suppose all that means is that both are operated by idiots.

Anyway, for the journey under review thetrainline quoted the same price and the point is now entirely academic because I'll be travelling by car.

 

[Edvid]

For the record, thetrainline are now owned by Exponent Private Equity.

 

[janb]

Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the complaint, but the basic answer is thats just the way the systems work. They don't seem to have the sophistication to say "Advance D is more expensive than Off Peak so don't display Advance D".

Virgin have some Advances that are more expensive than the Off Peak tickets but less than an Anytime tickets. These tickets serve a purpose for the Peak time trains. Clearly they don't for Off Peak trains, but the way the system works is that they are still there available and will thus display as such.

So I guess what you are asking for is improved website/software design.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Or common sense?

AP tickets are cheap because they're severely restricted. AP tickets which are more expensive than walk-up's just doesn't make any sense.

Virgin's new website is actually rather good.

 

[Greenback]

Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the complaint, but the basic answer is thats just the way the systems work. They don't seem to have the sophistication to say "Advance D is more expensive than Off Peak so don't display Advance D".

Virgin have some Advances that are more expensive than the Off Peak tickets but less than an Anytime tickets. These tickets serve a purpose for the Peak time trains. Clearly they don't for Off Peak trains, but the way the system works is that they are still there available and will thus display as such.

So I guess what you are asking for is improved website/software design.

I think we would like to see Advance tickets that are more expensive than off peak walk up tickets withdrawn for off peak services! It just leads people to suspect that the TOC's are doing this deliberately in order to catch people out, which they probably are!

 

[janb]

Or common sense?
AP tickets are cheap because they're severely restricted. AP tickets which are more expensive than walk-up's just doesn't make any sense.

Well then we get into the nuts and bolts of the NRS and whether it is possible to implement if Virgin say we want to offer BCO, BBO, BAO category advance on Peak trains and for journeys where they are less than the Off Peak ticket, but not show them as bookable for others. Not enough of an expert to answer that. I'm not sure what other TOCs do, and whether they have that situation arise. Presumably East Coast have the same issues, not sure how they display.

 

[tony_mac]

Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the complaint, but the basic answer is thats just the way the systems work. They don't seem to have the sophistication to say "Advance D is more expensive than Off Peak so don't display Advance D".

That is my complaint, yes.

So I guess what you are asking for is improved website/software design.

Yes; it's not exactly rocket science to fix it. If there had been a mistake that could undercharge passengers then it would have been fixed very quickly.

Virgin's new website is actually rather good.

Is it? It looks like crap to me, is slow, difficult to find things (like the Christmas restrictions!) and overcharges. (I am using Firefox, but you can't blame that for the overcharging).

 

[A60K]

I think we would like to see Advance tickets that are more expensive than off peak walk up tickets withdrawn for off peak services! It just leads people to suspect that the TOC's are doing this deliberately in order to catch people out, which they probably are!

I prefer the cock-up theory to the conspiracy theory - judging by a couple of pricing managers I've had correspondence with!