Phoenix
Established Member
I know how you feel
Luckily I hardly ever get harassed but i guess even once is far to often for anyone it just has the potential to wreck anyone's day out.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Video: Stealing freedom
- Thread starter yorkie
- Start date
- Status
Luckily I hardly ever get harassed but i guess even once is far to often for anyone it just has the potential to wreck anyone's day out.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Phoenix, I agree with you that a valid ticket allows you access to a station/platform, Ive never denied that. However what "ferret" was claiming was that the enthusiasts guidelines give sole permission when infact the do not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Please point me to the text where it gives you permission to be on the platform and I will gladly retract my previous statement.
Maybe not, but if an instruction that "spotters" need to be challengd has come down from ops managers/line managers then staff would be expected to carry it out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Please point me to the text where it gives you permission to be on the platform and I will gladly retract my previous statement.
Maybe not, but if an instruction that "spotters" need to be challengd has come down from ops managers/line managers then staff would be expected to carry it out.
Last edited:
GB - it's implied in the very first sentence. "All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations". It then goes on to give a list of dos and don'ts under the heading of "On the station platform". Make of that what you will - I have!
It's a fair point you raise about an instruction to challenge spotters - but there's a difference between challenging as a means of finding out what they're up to and how long they'll be there etc and telling them to leave the station for no reason other than the platform staff feel like it/have nothing better to do. That's what I'm speaking out against...
It's a fair point you raise about an instruction to challenge spotters - but there's a difference between challenging as a means of finding out what they're up to and how long they'll be there etc and telling them to leave the station for no reason other than the platform staff feel like it/have nothing better to do. That's what I'm speaking out against...
Ok, agree with you on that point.
Donny Dave
Established Member
Once again, I've just skim read through the bulls**t and petty crap, and I only have 1 thing to say ....
Like it or not, but railway stations are private property (they are owned by Network Rail). The TOC managing the station has every right to ask you to leave the station if they believ you have no reason to be there. IE you are not travelling or not made staff aware you will be there for a while.
I read all this topics about people being harrassed at stations, but I wonder how many people actually took the time to inform the staff or ask permission ....
Like it or not, but railway stations are private property (they are owned by Network Rail). The TOC managing the station has every right to ask you to leave the station if they believ you have no reason to be there. IE you are not travelling or not made staff aware you will be there for a while.
I read all this topics about people being harrassed at stations, but I wonder how many people actually took the time to inform the staff or ask permission ....
richa2002
Established Member
- Joined
- 8 Jun 2005
- Messages
- 2,298
99% of the time it's pretty obvious what we're doing. A man with a camera taking photos of trains usually means he is a rail enthusiast... Not something that needs spelling out.
The guidelines tell us we have permission to take photographs. 'You are allowed to take photographs on stations if it is for personal use.'. What's the point of having these guidelines if no-one takes them seriously?
I just don't understand that after years of people 'trainspotting', there have been no problems but suddenly it's become a suspicious activity and not tolerated too well on some stations. 99% of the time we do no harm whatsoever, of course if trespassing take place this should be dealt with but that's the same with anyone who enters a station, not just rail enthusiasts.
It's often very hard to try and stay polite to a member of staff when they're the ones with the awful attitudes. Not that I'd ever be reduced to swearing at a member of staff.
The guidelines tell us we have permission to take photographs. 'You are allowed to take photographs on stations if it is for personal use.'. What's the point of having these guidelines if no-one takes them seriously?
I just don't understand that after years of people 'trainspotting', there have been no problems but suddenly it's become a suspicious activity and not tolerated too well on some stations. 99% of the time we do no harm whatsoever, of course if trespassing take place this should be dealt with but that's the same with anyone who enters a station, not just rail enthusiasts.
It's often very hard to try and stay polite to a member of staff when they're the ones with the awful attitudes. Not that I'd ever be reduced to swearing at a member of staff.
Last edited:
The Snap
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 Jun 2005
- Messages
- 3,156
It seems to me that people have a problem with authority in some instances, and in others, authority has a problem with people. The use of anti-terror legislation is, in my opinion, a cop-out way of getting the public to do what the government wants. It is easier to arrest someone under the anti-terror bill and punish them as necessary than it is to do so for a 'normal' crime. Now, I'm not saying anyone within the rail enthusiast community has been tried for any such terrorist activity, my point is that the laws provide an 'excuse' for people to be controlled. For example, a man was recently help over night in a police cell for taking photographs of grids in Manchester city centre - harmless enough I'd say. He was held for over 24 hours without charge while the police searched his house and computer for evident of these photographs...none of which were ever found...:roll:
This relates quite nicely to the taking of photos in railway stations - quite how a child, or indeed adult, in a train station with a camera is going to take pictures for terrorism reasons is beyond me. Any self-respecting terrorist wouldn't go to a train station to take pictures as much of the material they might require will most probably be online, and more importantly, why risk your position as an 'innocent bistanded' if you are aware that you could draw attention to yourself by taking such photographs? People who take photographs know they may get complaints are quite happy to take them (although perhaps not in this instance), whereas a terrorist surely wouldn't want to be noticed at all?! (until, of course, the day they decide to blow themselves up!)
The great George Orwell's 1984 springs to mind...
This relates quite nicely to the taking of photos in railway stations - quite how a child, or indeed adult, in a train station with a camera is going to take pictures for terrorism reasons is beyond me. Any self-respecting terrorist wouldn't go to a train station to take pictures as much of the material they might require will most probably be online, and more importantly, why risk your position as an 'innocent bistanded' if you are aware that you could draw attention to yourself by taking such photographs? People who take photographs know they may get complaints are quite happy to take them (although perhaps not in this instance), whereas a terrorist surely wouldn't want to be noticed at all?! (until, of course, the day they decide to blow themselves up!)
The great George Orwell's 1984 springs to mind...
devon_metro
Established Member
Rail enthusiasts do more good to the rail industry than a group of intimidating chavs, so why is nobody banning them?
Dennis
Established Member
At times, it must get a bit intimidating for staff having their every movement scrutinised by know-it-all enthusiasts.
I certainly wouldn't like it if a bunch of people turned up with cameras turned up at work and hung about for hours...
I certainly wouldn't like it if a bunch of people turned up with cameras turned up at work and hung about for hours...
Mintona
Established Member
It may be that enthusiasts are harrassed less, as with the resession TOCs are getting rid of platform staff, yet the same number of trains are run. That means less time for the remaining staff to get bored and harass enthusiasts.
Hopefully they will be kept busy with the job and less likely to get bored
You sound almost gleeful that staff are losing their jobs :roll:
Max, we don't have a cafe. If I see someone waiting on a platform for more than one train, I ask them what they are up to. Usually waiting for the next one is the answer, or waiting to meet someone. I don't have a problem with that, but it is useful to know that they're not just hanging around for hours on end.
Have you asked for permission to be at Doncaster before?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No but as I said earlier there are clearly too many in some locations and this leads to boredom and in a small number of cases harassment of customers. If the harassment stops and the staffing levels are sensible and the railway becomes more efficient then everyone benefits. Obviously I would not support cuts if it meant a worse service for customers (e.g. loss of ticket office opening hours) or caused safety issues.
The Snap
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 Jun 2005
- Messages
- 3,156
What harm are people doing hanging around for hours on end? It might be sad**, but that's their problem and not the station staffs', surely?
**Hanging around aimlessly, not photting
What harm are people doing hanging around for hours on end? It might be sad**, but that's their problem and not the station staffs', surely?
**Hanging around aimlessly, not photting
Station staff are required to be vigilant at all times and I dont suppose they would care for someone to be wondering/sitting aimlessly while trying to go about their other duties.
Its also not unheard of that people step in front of the next express (suicide) in the more extreme cases.
Mintona
Established Member
What harm are people doing hanging around for hours on end? It might be sad**, but that's their problem and not the station staffs', surely?
**Hanging around aimlessly, not photting
No harm whatsoever. It is just useful to know who is there. But if we get people hanging about for long periods and not getting on trains, then you start to wonder what they are doing. The one time I don't ask could be the one time we get a fatality or a bomb scare.
GB, are you implying that station staff should be somehow un-nerved by the sight of enthusiasts hanging around with cameras and notebooks?! They must be fragile little souls if they are
No not at all. People with notebooks and cameras to me are clearly there for a reason or purpose, however my previous comment was geared more towards those that sit/stand on platforms watching trains without said equipment.
Phoenix
Established Member
The problem is though although you have clearly demonstrated that you are all for fairness and just general common sense about these things the fact is your a memeber of a railway forum so in a way you partially are an enthusiast (I leave you to decided as to what type) but can your views be shared by (oh let's say) bob from Milton Keynes who is 30 years has a wife and two boys and is a major football fan and thinks a trains no matter what shape or size is an object for passenger use and that's it.
Not the famous Becky Pendolino!!!Ah GB, you mean like the person that calls itself Rebecca (I suspect his real name is Richard...!) that hangs around New Street? Yes, that is rather disconcerting
I have a habit of randomly asking customers questions whenever he is about! He actually travels nowadays, always on the Bristol services.
flymo
Established Member
OK I'll add my little contribution to the cause.
When I lived in Newcastle, on the way home from work or during a spare hour or 2 during the evening or weekend I would head to the Central Station, buy myself a cup of tea and stand towards the High Level Bridge end of P3/P4. I never used to take pictures or take numbers, I just used to stand out of the way and watch the railways at work. The smells, the sounds, in fact the whole atmosphere I used to find captivating.
Now how in the world is that any threat to anyone?
There would occasionally be some local enthusiasts there, maybe 4 or 5 people, talking, writing numbers, taking photos and they were never any problem. They knew what to do and what not to do. A few regulars would talk to platform staff, ask for any gen and generally have a good time enjoying their hobby.
Now how in the world is that any threat to anyone?
Today if I had the temerity to have the aforementioned cup of tea in that locale would be accused of endangering local, national and international security, frogmarched out of the station and, if Britain had one, probably detained for 5 years in their version of Guantánamo Bay.
No doubt in response to this there will be the posters that think it is not public property so stay out, or the posters that think it is OK to be there. To be honest I really don't care anymore, life is too short. I really enjoy reading threads like this as it stimulates some amazing discussions from both sides ofthe fence but it does make me realise how ridiculous and sad Britain has become. I guess common sense is an optional extra nowadays.
Now that is a threat to everyone :neutral:
When I lived in Newcastle, on the way home from work or during a spare hour or 2 during the evening or weekend I would head to the Central Station, buy myself a cup of tea and stand towards the High Level Bridge end of P3/P4. I never used to take pictures or take numbers, I just used to stand out of the way and watch the railways at work. The smells, the sounds, in fact the whole atmosphere I used to find captivating.
Now how in the world is that any threat to anyone?
There would occasionally be some local enthusiasts there, maybe 4 or 5 people, talking, writing numbers, taking photos and they were never any problem. They knew what to do and what not to do. A few regulars would talk to platform staff, ask for any gen and generally have a good time enjoying their hobby.
Now how in the world is that any threat to anyone?
Today if I had the temerity to have the aforementioned cup of tea in that locale would be accused of endangering local, national and international security, frogmarched out of the station and, if Britain had one, probably detained for 5 years in their version of Guantánamo Bay.
No doubt in response to this there will be the posters that think it is not public property so stay out, or the posters that think it is OK to be there. To be honest I really don't care anymore, life is too short. I really enjoy reading threads like this as it stimulates some amazing discussions from both sides ofthe fence but it does make me realise how ridiculous and sad Britain has become. I guess common sense is an optional extra nowadays.
Now that is a threat to everyone :neutral:
Donny Dave
Established Member
I kniw you won't believe this, but yes I have asked for permission when I've been to Doncaster.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/video/?bcpid=1586371503&bctid=16849917001
This chap didn't, when going to Macclesfield (I think) Quite amusing, reminds me of Roger Cooks documentary making. Apologies if its been posted before.
This chap didn't, when going to Macclesfield (I think) Quite amusing, reminds me of Roger Cooks documentary making. Apologies if its been posted before.
Last edited:
Makes Virgin Trains look utter prats. When the railway industry is in receipt of so much tax payers money (like banks), they have an complete cheek being such jobworths. Any idiot knows no terrorist would hand around station buildings filming, you can get all the information you need from Google Earth/Steetview to launch any attack. This is something some bureaucrat has thought of. That'll be the next thing, internet monitoring to work out who is looking at certain things 'too long' on streetview, before before being arrested and held for several weeks.
- Status