Victoria line at 50

[MatthewRead]

This Saturday the Victoria line celebrates it's 50th birthday. It's a shame a complete 1967 tube stock train was never fully preserved because it could run a special tour.

Are there any ways to commerate this milestone?

 

[Ianno87]

This Saturday the Victoria line celebrates it's 50th birthday. It's a shame a complete 1967 tube stock train was never fully preserved because it could run a special tour.

Are there any ways to commerate this milestone?

Could it run a special tour? Is it fitted with the new signalling system? (Dual operation was possible when old and new signalling were overlaid on top of each other).

Plus even the Sunday service is too frequent to insert special tours these days...

 

[edwin_m]

A tour of the non-passenger depot spur might be interesting, even if it had to be with the current stock.

 

[rebmcr]

Could it run a special tour? Is it fitted with the new signalling system? (Dual operation was possible when old and new signalling were overlaid on top of each other).

Plus even the Sunday service is too frequent to insert special tours these days...

Such a special tour would not necessarily have to run on the Walthamstow to Brixton route.

 

[MatthewRead]

Could it run a special tour? Is it fitted with the new signalling system? (Dual operation was possible when old and new signalling were overlaid on top of each other).

Plus even the Sunday service is too frequent to insert special tours these days...

I know it's such a crying shame

 

[bluegoblin7]

Sigh.

Enthusiasts' Tours can (and have) run on the Victoria line in recent years using '09 stock - just last year, during Night Tube hours, in fact.

You could run a tour off the Victoria line with your hypothetical '67 stock, as the farewell tour did, but you'd struggle to fit it between normal services and you'd have no-one still in ticket on it. Plus, the anniversary is about the Victoria line, not the stock - not much point running an anniversary tour not on the Vic - you might as well use a visually-similar '72 stock which would have far fewer problems operating 'off route' anyway (notwithstanding getting one off the Bakerloo...).

Your hypothetical '67 stock would not be able to run on the Vic line as it would not be fitted with DTG-R - all legacy equipment has either been removed or is no longer maintained.

Aaaaaaand anyway, I refer you to the wider world of LU Heritage Trains to show how hard any such tour would be to both organise and run, and whether such a jolly would make a financial return (hint: it wouldn't. And LU has no money).

A number of guided tours of the Vic are planned to mark the anniversary, and TfL is also 'going large' on social media with bits from the archives, as well as other things relating to the Vic.

 

[duncanp]

Having lived in Walthamstow for the past 27 years, it is interesting to see how the line has changed over the years.

In 1991, the first train from Walthamstow Central was at 05:50, and services were considerably less frequent than today, with a good proportion of the trains turning round at Seven Sisters. On Boxing Day, services only ran every 15 minutes between Brixton and Seven Sisters.

Now you have the first train at 05:24, trains more or less every minute throughout a good proportion of the day, most trains running all the way to Walthamstow, services over the whole line on Boxing Day, and of course the night tube at weekends.

I think Walthamstow Central urgently needs a rebuild though, as the frequency of trains means that there is often serious congestion at the bottom of the escalator, especially during the evening peak. A second entrance leading directly from the shopping centre, or perhaps also from the walkway linking Queens Road to Central, would be useful. This entrance could be made fully accessible.

As to the future, I don't think there is capacity for any extensions, however useful they might be. Perhaps North - South Crossrail, if and when it ever gets built, will take some of the pressure off the line.

One of the Victoria Line's greatest strengths and weaknesses is that it connects with so many other lines.

A strength because every station except Pimlico has at least one other connection to another line, thus improving connectivity.

A weakness because this means that you get a lot of commuters all trying to get on the trains at the same time. If you have ever seen a Southbound main line train stopping at Tottenham Hale in the morning peak, you can easily get 150 people getting off at once, most of whom want to transfer to the Victoria Line.

And while we are on the subject of Tottenham Hale, whoever decided it was a good idea to close the direct entrance from the footbridge to the tube ought to be lined up against a wall and shot.

I will be moving away from Walthamstow soon, so will miss the Victoria Line, although not the overcrowding at peak times.

 

[Bald Rick]

Tomorrow (Saturday) is the 50th anniversary of the Victoria Line, a line that now has 36tph at peak times.

Today (Friday) is the 50th anniversary of Sir Garfield Sobers’ world record first ever 6 x sixes in an over (cricket) ie 36 runs.

Extraordinary coincidence. Or is it????.....

 

[Busaholic]

Tomorrow (Saturday) is the 50th anniversary of the Victoria Line, a line that now has 36tph at peak times.

Today (Friday) is the 50th anniversary of Sir Garfield Sober’s world record first ever 6 x sixes in an over (cricket) ie 36 runs.

Extraordinary coincidence. Or is it????.....

Malcolm Nash would certainly call it an unfortunate coincidence lol

 

[duncanp]

There is also a video clip on the BBC News website today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...derground-s-victoria-line-marks-50th-birthday

 

[yorksrob]

Given how relatively young the line is, I always wonder however did we manage without it !

Looking at the BBC snippet, "The Viking Line" would have been a good name.

 

[Adlington]

Black and white photos of Victoria line released by the Evening Standard.

In particular one photo shows The Queen at the controls of a train at Green Park station. Did she have to join the union?

IIRC she also rode an underground train on the opening of the Heathrow extension. I wonder whether she'll take any active part in the opening of the Elisabeth line?

 

[Mikey C]

The Diamond Geezer blog is featuring The Victoria Line at the moment, visiting its stations

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/

 

[Joe Paxton]

This Saturday the Victoria line celebrates it's 50th birthday. It's a shame a complete 1967 tube stock train was never fully preserved because it could run a special tour.

Are there any ways to commerate this milestone?

Ride on it and appreciate the euphoric light-blue cloud nine that is the Victoria line.

 

[Warwick]

....and DOO from the start.

 

[Busaholic]

Opened without fanfare, and no major problems experienced. I had to wait until its first Saturday (7th) before travelling on it, and the only bit that wasn't working was when you got out at Walthamstow Central and found the new bus station wasn't open, so side roads opposite had to be used by the new bus services for a few days. Not for this thread, but the bus changes here, at Wood Green, and other places too that day were the largest on one day in LT history, which record still stands today.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Opened without fanfare, and no major problems experienced. I had to wait until its first Saturday (7th) before travelling on it, and the only bit that wasn't working was when you got out at Walthamstow Central and found the new bus station wasn't open, so side roads opposite had to be used by the new bus services for a few days. Not for this thread, but the bus changes here, at Wood Green, and other places too that day were the largest on one day in LT history, which record still stands today.

Out of curiosity, could you give us an overview of said changes?

 

[74A]

....and DOO from the start.

No trains have ever been driven by a human being on the Victoria line. More like GOO.

 

[rebmcr]

No trains have ever been driven by a human being on the Victoria line.

I find that impossible to believe. What about engineering trains, or for testing under manual conditions?

 

[Mag_seven]

I find that impossible to believe. What about engineering trains, or for testing under manual conditions?

Or even just manual override when there was a train fault.

 

[Warwick]

I know what 74A meant.

 

[bramling]

I find that impossible to believe. What about engineering trains, or for testing under manual conditions?

You’re right. Engineers trains are driven manually, and manual driving has always happened in certain situations.

However, it’s true to say that the Vic Line has an ATO culture much more strongly ingrained than other lines. There are a number of reasons for this. One is that the line is wholly in tunnel so some reasons for manual driving found elsewhere don’t exist. Another big reason was that the old system was not designed to allow full-speed manual driving. Thirdly the line has always operated a fairly intense service, now more so than ever, making ATO much more vital than something like the Northern. It’s probably also fair to say that the line was on e shiny, new and technologically advanced for its time - so no process of having to get existing staff to accept change.

 

[Ianno87]

No trains have ever been driven by a human being on the Victoria line. More like GOO.

...on the 67 stock, I understand the line was driven manually for the first hour on a Sunday morning to keep crew knowledge up? (Or am I thinking of the Central Line?)

 

[Busaholic]

Out of curiosity, could you give us an overview of said changes?

Apologies for delay in replying. Seven new Red Arrow routes in central London, 6 new flat fare routes in Wood Green, with 44 new one man operated single deck buses, and changes affecting over 300 crew double deck buses in the surrounding areas. In Walthamstow, one new flat fare route, with three other graduated fare omo routes, 45 new buses in all, plus changes involving about 400 other buses. So, quite a day: oh, and Hampstead Village got its first-ever bus service, on which I was the only passenger on a midday service that day!

 

[bramling]

...on the 67 stock, I understand the line was driven manually for the first hour on a Sunday morning to keep crew knowledge up? (Or am I thinking of the Central Line?)

I don’t think 67 stock was ever routinely driven manually, as the design of the system meant it was always limited to something like 25 mph. The run from Seven Sisters from and towards the depot was always manual however.

The Central was and remains manually driven on Sundays and bank holidays on selected parts of open sections. Northern and Jubilee are same.

The Central Jubilee and Northern see a lot more manual driving than the Vic, although the Jubilee doesn’t like it following some high-profile delays which have been down to driver messups. Central and Northern don’t really care if people drive manually providing nothing bad happens, and it’s more than possible to keep up with ATO performance - indeed on the Northern it’s quite possible to surpass it slightly, which isn’t really how it’s supposed to be!

 

[Busaholic]

I don’t think 67 stock was ever routinely driven manually, as the design of the system meant it was always limited to something like 25 mph. The run from Seven Sisters from and towards the depot was always manual however.

The Central was and remains manually driven on Sundays and bank holidays on selected parts of open sections. Northern and Jubilee are same.

The Central Jubilee and Northern see a lot more manual driving than the Vic, although the Jubilee doesn’t like it following some high-profile delays which have been down to driver messups. Central and Northern don’t really care if people drive manually providing nothing bad happens, and it’s more than possible to keep up with ATO performance - indeed on the Northern it’s quite possible to surpass it slightly, which isn’t really how it’s supposed to be!

I don't recall hearing of any manual driving, except in an emergency, on the Vic when I was working at Coburg Street HQ for a few months circa 1971.

 

[Ex LT]

I don't recall hearing of any manual driving, except in an emergency, on the Vic when I was working at Coburg Street HQ for a few months circa 1971.

On the Vic line when it opened manual driving was done into/out of all sidings and like someone said to/from the depot with the changeover at the depot entrance as in the depot there was no codes. I can't say what they do now.

 

[Busaholic]

On the Vic line when it opened manual driving was done into/out of all sidings and like someone said to/from the depot with the changeover at the depot entrance as in the depot there was no codes. I can't say what they do now.

Perhaps I should have added 'in passenger service' to my piece, because that's what I meant. There was also an element of manual driving required, unfortunately, on occasions when passengers had landed up on the track and trains needed to be moved a few feet, though this would not normally be done by the driver originally on board and, as you might imagine, was a most delicate operation. I was only once with a District Inspector when this had to be done, but I'll never forget it.

 

[bramling]

Perhaps I should have added 'in passenger service' to my piece, because that's what I meant. There was also an element of manual driving required, unfortunately, on occasions when passengers had landed up on the track and trains needed to be moved a few feet, though this would not normally be done by the driver originally on board and, as you might imagine, was a most delicate operation. I was only once with a District Inspector when this had to be done, but I'll never forget it.

It's standard practice at a "one under" for the train to have to be moved in this way - either the relieving driver will move the train once they get to site, or a suitably licensed manager can do it as well if present. On an ATO line such a move will generally be done in Protected Manual mode if in the right direction, or in Restricted Manual mode if in the wrong direction.

Another common occasion for manual driving is taking staff to a location, as once a train starts in ATO then the only way (officially) to stop it is via an emergency brake application. On the Central Line it's unofficially possible to go from ATO to Coded Manual on the move, with a skilled driver moving the master control switch and then instantly moving the traction/brake controller to the required position - if done well all that will be felt is a very momentary emergency brake application. I don't think anyone's tried this on the Jubilee or Northern yet...