Victoria Coach Station to Close?

[pitdiver]

As an ex employee of National Express there was always a lot of discussion about the closure of Victoria Coach Station. I believe this is a distinct possibility now as there seems to be plans for the area to be redeveloped. As I understand it the talk is to move it to the Old Oak Common area.

Do members feel this is a wise plan or can they think of another suitable location for a Coach Station in London.

 

[syorksdeano]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was in line for a major refurbishment and not relocation

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is it with Old Oak Common that makes people think it makes sense to relocate major transport terminals to suburbia, thus lengthening peoples' journeys[1], creating a huge reliance on Crossrail etc?

Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[1] OK, if travelling from the South West and South Wales it might be quicker as it's just off the motorway, but not from the South and South East, and debatable from the North. And if you do what some cities worldwide do and have different terminals, the interchange benefits are lost.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What is it with Old Oak Common that makes people think it makes sense to relocate major transport terminals to suburbia, thus lengthening peoples' journeys[1], creating a huge reliance on Crossrail etc?

Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[1] OK, if travelling from the South West and South Wales it might be quicker as it's just off the motorway, but not from the South and South East, and debatable from the North. And if you do what some cities worldwide do and have different terminals, the interchange benefits are lost.

Really, Neil? :roll: This has nothing to do with transport planning, integration etc. It's all to do with property speculation.

Grosvenor own VCS and they want to redevelop a prime site in central London for expensive housing as part of a wider renewal of the area. The lease revenue is minimal in comparison to the riches that they can make from the disposal.

These are not new proposals - they've been in the mix since 2012 and they've done a lot of work to attempt to justify such a development (e.g. highlighting the economic benefit to the area, Westminster Council, etc).

 

[pitdiver]

I must agree with the Grand Wazoo. The plan has got nothing to do with transport integration but the plans of the Grosvenor company. I have just remembered that one of the more bizarre plans that was mentioned would the setting up of "Satellite" Coach stns N,S,E.W. Never did find out how passengers would interchange but the idea was o keep asmany coaches as possible out of central London. I think this plan was mentioned as far back as 2006 when I joined NX

 

[freetoview33]

Thing is Old Oak would be a good location just because there would be transport links (Better than most places it could be relocated to)

Satellite coach stations could work! I guess then the main interchange point would become Heathrow Airport (As most places have a coach to/from there anyway)

Victoria Coach Station is in a good location but is really too small now to cope. It could do with a major referb and don't get me wrong I would prefer that option! I always thought it would be beneficial if there was a subway from the Coach station(s) to Rail station/underground. Would save the mad rushes crossing the road and people having no idea where to go!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Victoria Coach Station is a listed building which could cause some complication, but obviously it's about property speculation. And if we get another mayor that likes property speculation as much as Boris, it'll close.

The idea of satellite coach stations isn't all bad though. When I used to take the coach I used to try and get off at Golders Green because it was quicker than riding the bus all across the centre of town. A satellite coach station which is well connected (as OOC will be with Crossrail) isn't such a stupid idea.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The problem with satellite coach stations or one further out of the city centre is cost. A lot of people use the coach rather than the train simply due to price. I you move the coach station around so people then have to use the tube / crossrail / whatever to get into the city centre then you have to add the cost of that to the cost of the coach ticket. Ultimately pushing up the total price for people.

 

[freetoview33]

The problem with satellite coach stations or one further out of the city centre is cost. A lot of people use the coach rather than the train simply due to price. I you move the coach station around so people then have to use the tube / crossrail / whatever to get into the city centre then you have to add the cost of that to the cost of the coach ticket. Ultimately pushing up the total price for people.

Not really as many people then get the tube anyway!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Not really as many people then get the tube anyway!

It really depends on where you are going. For me, heading to my girlfriends in Camden, an interchange at OOC would add to the cost of the journey (as currently I can get a bus from Victoria that stops outside her flat) and I would imagine the same to be true of others heading to central locations. There would probably be winners aswell though (especially if you are using the interchange to head elsewhere on HS1 or the GWML or Crossrail) and of course it won't affect people who would likely be using the tube a lot on that day anyway (as they would probably end up hitting their oyster daily cap regardless).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Victoria Coach Station is a listed building which could cause some complication, but obviously it's about property speculation. And if we get another mayor that likes property speculation as much as Boris, it'll close.

The idea of satellite coach stations isn't all bad though. When I used to take the coach I used to try and get off at Golders Green because it was quicker than riding the bus all across the centre of town. A satellite coach station which is well connected (as OOC will be with Crossrail) isn't such a stupid idea.

Only the white art deco bit is listed and that at Grade II so whilst it's a bit more complicated, it isn't as though they can't do much. There's a lot they can do which is why it's so attractive as a realisable asset!!

Appreciate that satellite coach stations will have some benefits for some people; I'm sure the odd person uses Heathrow as a boarding point having not been anywhere near a plane. So the idea of them serving outlying hubs is not without merit.

However, for the majority, not serving the central area and being forced to change in OOC will prove nothing more than further inconvenience. Also, can you imagine NatEx terminating at OOC whilst Megabus continues into Central London? Imagine the loss of competitive advantage.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Also, can you imagine NatEx terminating at OOC whilst Megabus continues into Central London? Imagine the loss of competitive advantage.

Where would Megabus run to then since they also use Victoria Coach Station?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Where would Megabus run to then since they also use Victoria Coach Station?

Bulleid Way?

 

[Busaholic]

Why not go the full hog and relocate the main line station to OOC as well? Or Beckton slagheaps or anywhere where the oligarchs don't wish to buy up. Jusy the sort of issue which Farage should be flagging up, but as there aren't any destitute Roumanians involved don't expect a peep out of him. The proposal being mooted is so depressing it will probably go ahead. My short public transport career started with London Coastal Coaches at Victoria Coach Station in pre-NBC days and I still visit on my increasingly rare London visits, though never on a coach.

 

[deltic]

Westminster City Council committee meeting reported in early April
"TfL are reviewing options for the relocation of Victoria Coach Station (VCS) to make
way for Crossrail Line 2 works to the Departures Hall Site in the early 2020s and for
the removal of some buses from the front of the mainline station at Victoria "

 

[Busaholic]

Westminster City Council committee meeting reported in early April
"TfL are reviewing options for the relocation of Victoria Coach Station (VCS) to make
way for Crossrail Line 2 works to the Departures Hall Site in the early 2020s and for
the removal of some buses from the front of the mainline station at Victoria "

Now I'm even more depressed. Victoria Bus Station is the jewel in London Buses' crown - a bus station exactly where people want it, busy at least eighteen hours a day. What is the matter with these people?

 

[deltic]

Now I'm even more depressed. Victoria Bus Station is the jewel in London Buses' crown - a bus station exactly where people want it, busy at least eighteen hours a day. What is the matter with these people?

Westminster have a great dislike of buses and coaches and would like to get rid of the latter completely and reduce the former considerably.

 

[Busaholic]

Westminster have a great dislike of buses and coaches and would like to get rid of the latter completely and reduce the former considerably.

I had some experience of Westminster Council when I worked for Camden Council and gave housing advice sessions at a centre in Fitzrovia jointly funded by the two boroughs. I was strictly forbidden (by Westminster) to help their residents in any way! Of course, if you live in Eaton Square and your cars are regularly impeded by the hoi-polloi on public transport you will let the council know your feelings : after all, you do do have to pay 10% of the Central London Congestion Charge.

 

[pitdiver]

I always got the impression when I worked for TfL that VCS didn't really fit in. However apart from that as an operational coach station it is a nightmare.Totally impractical you have pedestrian walking in front of coaches and numerous conflicting moves. Not only for passengers using it, the staff working and last but not least the coaches themselves, Perhaps I should explain.I worked for NX a a Customer Experience Mgr during which time I had a lot of dealings with VCS. But prior to that I had worked for TfL during which time I sat and the Healthb& Safety committee,

 

[glbotu]

Surely if you have 4 coach stations N,S,E and W of the city, replacing Victoria Coach Station, the only people with a major disbenefit are those who live in the city itself (which one might suggest would be less inclined to take the coach in the first place). So long as these coach stations are well connected to the centre of town, the total number of inconvenienced passengers is decreased dramatically.

Currently, everyone who wants a coach has to go to Victoria coach station, which puts additional, unwanted pressure on the severely overcrowded Victoria Underground Station.

 

[TAS]

Surely if you have 4 coach stations N,S,E and W of the city, replacing Victoria Coach Station, the only people with a major disbenefit are those who live in the city itself (which one might suggest would be less inclined to take the coach in the first place). So long as these coach stations are well connected to the centre of town, the total number of inconvenienced passengers is decreased dramatically.

Currently, everyone who wants a coach has to go to Victoria coach station, which puts additional, unwanted pressure on the severely overcrowded Victoria Underground Station.

I think the point is that some people change between services at VCS and would not want to have to catch a coach, cross London by alternative means with their luggage, then have to catch another coach. Obviously, the same already applies for rail services, but it seems a shame to reduce the level of service provided. I also don't know what proportion of passengers are actually changing service (it could well be rather low, in which case this is less of an issue).

 

[deltic]

I think the point is that some people change between services at VCS and would not want to have to catch a coach, cross London by alternative means with their luggage, then have to catch another coach. Obviously, the same already applies for rail services, but it seems a shame to reduce the level of service provided. I also don't know what proportion of passengers are actually changing service (it could well be rather low, in which case this is less of an issue).

I cant recall the exact figure but I think it is around 20-25% of NAxEX passengers who interchange at VCS but it is probably slightly lower overall. As a high proportion of passengers are elderly who most dislike interchanging the loss of a central London interchange system is the biggest challenge in looking for an alternative sight and is a deal breaker for NX. TfL cant build a new coach station anywhere unless they have usage agreements in place with the main operators otherwise they risk having a very expensive white elephant.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There's a lot they can do which is why it's so attractive as a realisable asset!!

Yep, and given Boris bends over for every dodgy businessman between here and Kuala Lumpur, it'll close.

You only have to see the Evening Boris' gushing praise of the proposed new "city quarter" with its "cultural space" to see that much.

So the idea of them serving outlying hubs is not without merit.

However, for the majority, not serving the central area and being forced to change in OOC will prove nothing more than further inconvenience.

I'd agree, it wouldn't be ideal or even something I'd want. But it's not all bad, depending on what they replace it with. Sticking it out by the Westway would cut journey times (except for people going east), for one thing. It sometimes takes an hour just to get to the M1 from VCS.

And as others have said, VCS is getting cramped and isn't the best design in the world any more.

 

[pitdiver]

As I have worked at VCS in the past but mainly at Milton Keynes Coachway I can certainly vouch for the fact that quite a large number of passengers (please note) would interchange at VCS in the same way as a large number would change at BCS (Birmingham Coach Station).

i myself would often have to change there at VCS to go to the south coast.

As a matter of interest Milton Keynes Coachway was always considered to be the second busiest coach INTERCHANGE in the country. I think that was after Birmingham.
In my day we would have about 270 departures every 24 hrs.

 

[Deerfold]

Surely if you have 4 coach stations N,S,E and W of the city, replacing Victoria Coach Station, the only people with a major disbenefit are those who live in the city itself (which one might suggest would be less inclined to take the coach in the first place). So long as these coach stations are well connected to the centre of town, the total number of inconvenienced passengers is decreased dramatically.

Currently, everyone who wants a coach has to go to Victoria coach station, which puts additional, unwanted pressure on the severely overcrowded Victoria Underground Station.

No they don't. Most NX coaches stop at at least one other place in London besides VCS. Heathrow to the West, Golders Green to the North (and Marble Arch for those without luggage in the hold). Many of the services to the South and East have several stops. Megabus seems less keen on having several London stops.

 

[quarella]

T I always thought it would be beneficial if there was a subway from the Coach station(s) to Rail station/underground. Would save the mad rushes crossing the road and people having no idea where to go!

There was a mini bus shuttle in the early to mid eighties between the coach and train station. A beige Bedford CF if memory serves.

Also I knew I had seen coaches picking in a coach station across Buckingham Palace road so after searching on line for ages picked up my "Victoria Coach StationThe First fify years 1932-82" by Frank Woodworth and found the picture I was thinking of with National Express departures during the 1982 rail strike from the old BA Victoria terminal, Now part of the National Audit office and directly opposite Semley Place, which accesses the coach entrance to VCS. This then and now picture shows the terminal in 1976 with a pair of BA Atlanteans lurking inside along with a 2013 view. https://www.flickr.com/photos/rollthedice/9706209554/

 

[47802]

The problem with Victoria for those from/to the North is the length of time it takes to get from Golders Green to Victoria especially at peak time. OK you can use Golders Green as an alternate but its not great location to catch a Coach from in terms of facilities or exposure to the elements compared to Victoria.

 

[quarella]

The problem with Victoria for those from/to the North is the length of time it takes to get from Golders Green to Victoria especially at peak time. OK you can use Golders Green as an alternate but its not great location to catch a Coach from in terms of facilities or exposure to the elements compared to Victoria.

It is the same from any direction. The last bit is painfully slow though kudos to my Megabus driver last week to my Megabus driver who lost a few minutes around Hyde Park Corner to achieve a right time arrival. I am sure early arrivals are as much of a problem as delayed to the coach station.
Berrys of Taunton use Hammersmith Broadway bus station as their terminus and I have no problem with that, however I do feel there should be a fairly central interchange with facilities for the networked operations like National Express and Megabus. Something slightly better than the old Gloucester Road Coach station (Porta-cabin in a yard next to the underground station) and anything is better than running up and down Park Lane trying to find the Bakers Avon-London flyer (which has ceased operating) panicking when it drove past only for it to do another circuit as no spaces were available.

 

[Deerfold]

There was a mini bus shuttle in the early to mid eighties between the coach and train station. A beige Bedford CF if memory serves.

And another in the early 2000s - it didn't last long.

 

[telstarbox]

Has there been anything in TfL board papers about a relocation?