Veterans Railcard Named Companion

[Belgravia]

Hi everyone, would really appreciated your help clarifying the following.

I have a veterans railcard, and my spouse is listed on it as a named companion. We both travel from Woking to London for 2-3 days a week.

Occasionally the day we go into the office overlaps and we will get the same train to London that morning.

It is common for one of us to have to work late however, and therefore we end up returning on different trains.

On occasions such as this, if my spouse had bought a ticket that morning with the railcard discount applied, is it possible for her to “upgrade” her ticket in the evening to a “standard ticket” (without any discount). If so, what’s the most practical way of doing this? I.e. online, Waterloo station ticket office, guard onboard train?

As a follow-up question, we both take (different) onward journeys on the tube to get to our respective offices, hence we buy a return ticket to “ZONE U12* LONDN” which entitles us to two tube journeys. Is my spouse allowed to use the railcard discount on this portion of the journey (even though she won’t be travelling with me?)

Many thanks!

 

[E759]

Terms and conditions of your Railcard are here. In particular you should note terms 4.4, 4.5 & 4.6:

4.4 You can use your Railcard to buy discounted tickets for journeys on your own. You can also use your Railcard to buy discounted tickets for a named adult companion and up to four children travelling with you.

4.5 The maximum group size is the named cardholder, the named companion and four children aged between 5 and 15 years. The group must travel with the Railcard holder throughout the journey.

4.6 The named companion and/or accompanying children cannot travel without the cardholder.

From what you write it sounds like the railcard could have misused? Note that is a criminal offence. Take a look at Disputes & Prosecutions for railcard misuse cases to learn the consequences of misuse.

 

[Haywain]

is it possible for her to “upgrade” her ticket in the evening to a “standard ticket” (without any discount). If so, what’s the most practical way of doing this? I.e. online, Waterloo station ticket office, guard onboard train?

It may be possible at some ticket offices but there is no right to this. In fact the option to excess away a railcard discount is not explicitly designed into ticket issuing systems.

Is my spouse allowed to use the railcard discount on this portion of the journey (even though she won’t be travelling with me?)

No. If she is asked to produce the railcard she will not be able to and will be committing an offence. The discount is only valid when travelling with you.

 

[AlterEgo]

On occasions such as this, if my spouse had bought a ticket that morning with the railcard discount applied, is it possible for her to “upgrade” her ticket in the evening to a “standard ticket” (without any discount). If so, what’s the most practical way of doing this? I.e. online, Waterloo station ticket office, guard onboard train?

As @Haywain says there is no right to this, although if you find somewhere that does offer it, let the rest of us know!

As a follow-up question, we both take (different) onward journeys on the tube to get to our respective offices, hence we buy a return ticket to “ZONE U12* LONDN” which entitles us to two tube journeys. Is my spouse allowed to use the railcard discount on this portion of the journey (even though she won’t be travelling with me?)

No. Being caught doing this will result in being stopped, interviewed under caution, threatened with, and probably successfully prosecuted in the magistrates' court by TfL. Don't even think about it - get the ticket to Waterloo and use contactless from there.

 

[Belgravia]

It may be possible at some ticket offices but there is no right to this. In fact the option to excess away a railcard discount is not explicitly designed into ticket issuing systems.

No. If she is asked to produce the railcard she will not be able to and will be committing an offence. The discount is only valid when travelling with you.

Thank you Haywain. Very helpful response, I suppose whether there was a right to excess was the crux of my question.

I assumed as much for the tube journey part as well, but thought I’d ask in anycase.

Thank you also for properly reading my question and not assuming I was describing something that had actually occurred and jumping to conclusions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I note that for Woking-London, an Anytime Day Return is not hugely different from two Anytime Day Singles (£24.40 vs £26).

Thus, a good approach could be that you buy a return, but she buys a single out to travel with you, then a full price single back (I was going to suggest Network Railcard but it wouldn't discount as the single is the weekday minimum fare). If with you it could be a discounted single. Or it might be worth investigating a Gold Card for her (by buying the cheapest annual season in the former NSE area, I forget what it currently is but for a long time it was Hatton to Lapworth) and using that for the return half, as that has no minimum fare.

 

[Belgravia]

I note that for Woking-London, an Anytime Day Return is not hugely different from two Anytime Day Singles (£24.40 vs £26).

Thus, a good approach could be that you buy a return, but she buys a single out to travel with you, then a full price single back (I was going to suggest Network Railcard but it wouldn't discount as the single is the weekday minimum fare). If with you it could be a discounted single. Or it might be worth investigating a Gold Card for her (by buying the cheapest annual season in the former NSE area, I forget what it currently is but for a long time it was Hatton to Lapworth) and using that for the return half, as that has no minimum fare.

That’s a really good suggestion, I’d completely failed to notice that there’s not a big difference between the price of the two single tickets. Gold card could be a good option as well, but may wait for post-covid working patterns to settle before committing. Added bonus as well that it can be added to an Oyster card for off-peak journeys.

 

[Watershed]

may wait for post-covid working patterns to settle before committing

It's not really that big a commitment, as you can get a refund of the season if you change your mind. It won't be pro-rata but you will still get a decent amount back if, for example, you decide 2 months in that it isn't right for you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only potential spanner in these works is the precise meaning of "throughout the journey". I've heard people suggest it means the Railcard holder and others must have the exact same tickets, but nothing in the T&C (nor indeed for the Network Railcard) actually says that, and so to me the "common law" meaning would be that the accompanied person's journey must be the same as or a subset of that of the cardholder such that they are accompanied between entering and leaving Railway property.

 

[swt_passenger]

Only potential spanner in these works is the precise meaning of "throughout the journey". I've heard people suggest it means the Railcard holder and others must have the exact same tickets, but nothing in the T&C (nor indeed for the Network Railcard) actually says that, and so to me the "common law" meaning would be that the accompanied person's journey must be the same as or a subset of that of the cardholder such that they are accompanied between entering and leaving Railway property.

The potential problem that then occurs is the named companion has no railcard to show their entitlement if they get stopped by staff at a barrier when leaving a station, if the railcard holder has decided to continue on elsewhere. Same would apply to any railcard that allows more people than the holder to travel, eg a Network card.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The potential problem that then occurs is the named companion has no railcard to show their entitlement if they get stopped by staff at a barrier when leaving a station, if the railcard holder has decided to continue on elsewhere. Same would apply to any railcard that allows more people than the holder to travel, eg a Network card.

Nope

Only potential spanner in these works is the precise meaning of "throughout the journey". I've heard people suggest it means the Railcard holder and others must have the exact same tickets, but nothing in the T&C (nor indeed for the Network Railcard) actually says that, and so to me the "common law" meaning would be that the accompanied person's journey must be the same as or a subset of that of the cardholder such that they are accompanied between entering and leaving Railway property.

However an easier argument would be that a return ticket allows one to make two journeys, one in each direction, and thus someone accompanying for one of those journeys (with an appropriate discounted single ticket) is absolutely fine.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nope

You think everyone would do that? Get off train, escort person to barrier, wait for next train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You think everyone would do that? Get off train, escort person to barrier, wait for next train?

There are people who would do that in order to use the discount, yes.