Very worried - advice much appreciated

[parksd]

Hello,

Let me start by saying I am very regretful and I know I have made a big mistake which I can guarantee I will not be ever doing again. I have been struggling financially and for the past 6 months or so, some weeks if money has been tight I have been do-nutting train tickets instead of paying the full fair.
I was caught today at a London terminal scanning a barcode ticket that had just been purchased on the uber app, which flagged for being purchased last minute. It had been purchased for 1 stop only when I had actually travelled further.
When asked, I said I had travelled 1 stop only but forgot to buy a ticket until I was already on the train, which they did not question further although I am sure they hear this often.
They took my full name, address and details about how I looked, and they then printed me off a £50 TSGNPF fine which I paid online 10 minutes later.

The issue is - I am terrified that they are going to use my barcode ticket scan which linked to my uber account to investigate my journey history which could flag several suspicious journeys. Or that they are going to use my name and address to investigate me further. I have heard of people receiving summons letters in the post and having to backdate payments for all suspicious journeys. Although I know I deserve this, this would be really devastating because my financial situation is so tight that if I had to pay a big fine at once I would be in deep financial difficulty.
How likely is this to happen? Any advice would be much appreciated as I am in a real state worrying about this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:55 ==

I forgot to mention that I also used a 25-30 railcard on this ticket, and I gave them my date of birth when they took my details which shows my age is actually older. They did not mention this - but I am concerned that this could factor into any decision to investigate me further.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello,

Let me start by saying I am very regretful and I know I have made a big mistake which I can guarantee I will not be ever doing again. I have been struggling financially and for the past 6 months or so, some weeks if money has been tight I have been do-nutting train tickets instead of paying the full fair.
I was caught today at a London terminal scanning a barcode ticket that had just been purchased on the uber app, which flagged for being purchased last minute. It had been purchased for 1 stop only when I had actually travelled further.
When asked, I said I had travelled 1 stop only but forgot to buy a ticket until I was already on the train, which they did not question further although I am sure they hear this often.
They took my full name, address and details about how I looked, and they then printed me off a £50 TSGNPF fine which I paid online 10 minutes later.

The issue is - I am terrified that they are going to use my barcode ticket scan which linked to my uber account to investigate my journey history which could flag several suspicious journeys. Or that they are going to use my name and address to investigate me further. I have heard of people receiving summons letters in the post and having to backdate payments for all suspicious journeys. Although I know I deserve this, this would be really devastating because my financial situation is so tight that if I had to pay a big fine at once I would be in deep financial difficulty.
How likely is this to happen? Any advice would be much appreciated as I am in a real state worrying about this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:55 ==

I forgot to mention that I also used a 25-30 railcard on this ticket, and I gave them my date of birth when they took my details which shows my age is actually older. They did not mention this - but I am concerned that this could factor into any decision to investigate me further.

Welcome to the forum

As you have paid the penalty fare, it's most likely that this is the end of the matter. But we can't guarantee this: it's possible that the railway will now look back at your previous tickets, and want to know more about it. So keep a close eye on your post (and emails as well) just in case they come back to you. If they do, then please come back to us, and we'll do our best to help you through what's happening.

It's also really important that you now buy the right fare in advance for every train journey that you make. If you don't and you get caught, then the railway may then look back at your record and see that you haven't learnt your lesson from this time. That's the sort of thing that leads to them coming down hard in that they may decide that only being taken to court would teach you to follow the rules.

 

[parksd]

Thanks for the welcome and for getting back to me - I will of course now pay the right fare, I have totally learnt my lesson.
My issue is I have a bad anxiety problem and I feel like this is going to really keep me up at night wondering if that letter is coming.
Are there examples you are aware of where someone was issues a fine and paid straight away but was still investigated further and received one of the letters? I know you cannot guarantee anything, just wondering if you know any more about the likelihood.
Thank you for your time

 

[parksd]

Welcome to the forum

As you have paid the penalty fare, it's most likely that this is the end of the matter. But we can't guarantee this: it's possible that the railway will now look back at your previous tickets, and want to know more about it. So keep a close eye on your post (and emails as well) just in case they come back to you. If they do, then please come back to us, and we'll do our best to help you through what's happening.

It's also really important that you now buy the right fare in advance for every train journey that you make. If you don't and you get caught, then the railway may then look back at your record and see that you haven't learnt your lesson from this time. That's the sort of thing that leads to them coming down hard in that they may decide that only being taken to court would teach you to follow the rules.

Thanks for the welcome and for getting back to me - I will of course now pay the right fare, I have totally learnt my lesson.
My issue is I have a bad anxiety problem and I feel like this is going to really keep me up at night wondering if that letter is coming.
Are there examples you are aware of where someone was issues a fine and paid straight away but was still investigated further and received one of the letters? I know you cannot guarantee anything, just wondering if you know any more about the likelihood.
Thank you for your time

 

[Chiltern 165]

I forgot to mention that I also used a 25-30 railcard on this ticket, and I gave them my date of birth when they took my details which shows my age is actually older. They did not mention this - but I am concerned that this could factor into any decision to investigate me further.

There is a chance that GTR (operator of southern, thameslink, GX, and Great Northern) decide investigate you further.

Luckily you were given an on the spot fine, which means the officer handled it, not the back office.

 

[Swedenorer]

Remember you could have been prosecuted.

Remember too with the information they now have investigating your journey history is the work of a few minutes and those doing this will know exactly what they are looking for.

If they do contact you again come back here for advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

Let me start by saying I am very regretful and I know I have made a big mistake which I can guarantee I will not be ever doing again. I have been struggling financially and for the past 6 months or so, some weeks if money has been tight I have been do-nutting train tickets instead of paying the full fair.
I was caught today at a London terminal scanning a barcode ticket that had just been purchased on the uber app, which flagged for being purchased last minute. It had been purchased for 1 stop only when I had actually travelled further.
When asked, I said I had travelled 1 stop only but forgot to buy a ticket until I was already on the train, which they did not question further although I am sure they hear this often.
They took my full name, address and details about how I looked, and they then printed me off a £50 TSGNPF fine which I paid online 10 minutes later.

The issue is - I am terrified that they are going to use my barcode ticket scan which linked to my uber account to investigate my journey history which could flag several suspicious journeys. Or that they are going to use my name and address to investigate me further. I have heard of people receiving summons letters in the post and having to backdate payments for all suspicious journeys. Although I know I deserve this, this would be really devastating because my financial situation is so tight that if I had to pay a big fine at once I would be in deep financial difficulty.
How likely is this to happen? Any advice would be much appreciated as I am in a real state worrying about this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:55 ==

I forgot to mention that I also used a 25-30 railcard on this ticket, and I gave them my date of birth when they took my details which shows my age is actually older. They did not mention this - but I am concerned that this could factor into any decision to investigate me further.

So you have been both
a) short faring and
b) using a railcard discount that you are not entitled to

- and it looks like you were issued with a Penalty Fare by Thameslink Southern Great Northern (aka GTR)? (upload a copy with the ref number and any personal details obscured if you want that checked)

- and you have paid that Penalty Fare in full? (if so keep proof of payment and keep any paperwork you were given and keep it long term)

To add to the sound advice already given it's possible that you have had a lucky escape and nothing further will come from this.

All you thus need to do is to stop evading fares because sooner or later your luck will run out

But - it is possible they might investigate further so you are right to consider the risk of this. I would say on the balance of probabilities they probably won't but it can't be ruled out

Rather than just be worried about it there are a few things you can do to be prepared for that, so you are well placed to deal with it if they contact you and take any action.

These are things you can do

- they would have up to 6 months to take criminal court action for this sort of offence. So for the next 6 to 7 months it's vital that you watch out for and can receive post at the address you gave them (also keep an eye on e-mail and spam). If you move address during that time take action to set up a proper Royal Mail postal redirection (see Royal Mail website), rather then rely on next householder or landlord or whatever to give you any post.

- They have up to 6 years to pursue you for a civil debt for fares they think are owed, but that is less serious for you as it does not involve a criminal record

- privately go through your on line ticketing account and list out any fares you know to be incorrect, which if they investigated your account would look suspicious to the railway. Keep that list safe in case you need it

- then work out what the fare for each single journey would be at the Anytime Single fare for those trips - aim to save up that money in a bank account that you can access relatively easily. This is because if they did contact you your objective would be to try to seek an out of court settlement with them over this - which would involve them offering not to prosecute you in court in exchange for you paying the fares they think you owe - this is to deal with the situation you have heard about and mention in your post

- Have a look on this forum for other GTR cases to get the idea of what happens

- Do not delete your online ticket account (because they could still access it anyway in an investigation but you couldn't so you are at a disadvantage) - however, you might quietly want to start buying tickets from a different retailer - although they can potentially access data from any ticket retailer if investigating a crime

- If there is something you can do that would work to legitimately reduce your fares (eg buy a Railcard like a Network Railcard) then consider that - but check the T&Cs to see if it would actually save you money before doing that - but it is something you could say you did to change your ways after this incident

If you get contacted by the railway company on the next 6 or 7 months, or indeed after that, or receive anything from a court - then head back here for specific advice on it.

The most important thing to do to avoid this escalating is to check for post / e-mail / spam over coming months as mentioned above.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

But - it is possible they might investigate further so you are right to consider the risk of this. I would say on the balance of probabilities they probably won't but it can't be ruled out

If the Penalty Fare has been paid, do they still have grounds to prosecute? If the OP remains silent about other dubious ticketing, would they have enough to threaten prosecution?

 

[WesternLancer]

If the Penalty Fare has been paid, do they still have grounds to prosecute? If the OP remains silent about other dubious ticketing, would they have enough to threaten prosecution?

Good question. I had it in my mind that the situation where the payment of a Penalty Fare prevents further action had been over turned (seen something mentioned on here about a Chief Magistrate's ruling) but this may be wrong.

So it could be unlikely but the OP would do well to prepare themselves just in case. If nothing happens then that's a good outcome.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If the Penalty Fare has been paid, do they still have grounds to prosecute? If the OP remains silent about other dubious ticketing, would they have enough to threaten prosecution?

The major risk is that now that the railway know that the OP has dodged a fare, they will follow up on the basis of name and address (which the OP quite correctly gave) and Uber account (which I would expect to be available from the ticket having been scanned) to see if there are other occurrences of tickets having been bought for only one stop. If the railway find other occurrences which are within the last six months, then I would argue that as they have proof that the OP dodged a fare once (the admitted case, settled in itself by a penalty fare), then in the absence of anything from the OP to say otherwise it's shown beyond reasonable doubt that they dodged fares on other occasions because it's clear that short tickets have been bought by the proven fare dodger, so it's known that short tickets are used by them.

But I'd emphasise that it's still pretty unlikely that this will happen. Most obviously, the railway may not think that they have sufficient proof of other cases after all (I know there are people on this forum who will disagree with my analysis, and they may well be right to do so) but as well as that, checking through the OP's past record takes time and effort from the railway. They may not have the resource available to do that.

So my advice to the OP remains that there's no need to panic just now - but they do need to worry a little, so should keep their eyes open for letters from the railway. And as several people have said, they should make sure now that they always have the right train ticket before getting on board.

 

[IanMac]

I'm amazed that anyone with "a bad anxiety problem" would voluntarily indulge in anything that will sooner or later inevitably bring substantial anxiety.

 

[blimmo]

Good question. I had it in my mind that the situation where the payment of a Penalty Fare prevents further action had been over turned (seen something mentioned on here about a Chief Magistrate's ruling) but this may be wrong.

So it could be unlikely but the OP would do well to prepare themselves just in case. If nothing happens then that's a good outcome.

Payment of a penalty fare has never been enough to bar prosecution, only a decided (or time expired) appeal does that according to the regulations. It is this bar that the chief magistrate decided to ignore in the case you're thinking of. Paying a PF seems to stop prosecution with respect to that instance as a matter of policy though.

 

[district]

From my experience, if the PFN has been paid that will likely be the end of the matter.

If the RPI was suspicious about someone committing criminal fare evasion they would have reported the irregularity for it to be followed up.

I doubt this one is now in any queue to be looked at further, although if stopped again the train company will have details of the history of OP’s offending.

 

[tatitiliti]

Hello,

Let me start by saying I am very regretful and I know I have made a big mistake which I can guarantee I will not be ever doing again. I have been struggling financially and for the past 6 months or so, some weeks if money has been tight I have been do-nutting train tickets instead of paying the full fair.
I was caught today at a London terminal scanning a barcode ticket that had just been purchased on the uber app, which flagged for being purchased last minute. It had been purchased for 1 stop only when I had actually travelled further.
When asked, I said I had travelled 1 stop only but forgot to buy a ticket until I was already on the train, which they did not question further although I am sure they hear this often.
They took my full name, address and details about how I looked, and they then printed me off a £50 TSGNPF fine which I paid online 10 minutes later.

The issue is - I am terrified that they are going to use my barcode ticket scan which linked to my uber account to investigate my journey history which could flag several suspicious journeys. Or that they are going to use my name and address to investigate me further. I have heard of people receiving summons letters in the post and having to backdate payments for all suspicious journeys. Although I know I deserve this, this would be really devastating because my financial situation is so tight that if I had to pay a big fine at once I would be in deep financial difficulty.
How likely is this to happen? Any advice would be much appreciated as I am in a real state worrying about this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:55 ==

I forgot to mention that I also used a 25-30 railcard on this ticket, and I gave them my date of birth when they took my details which shows my age is actually older. They did not mention this - but I am concerned that this could factor into any decision to investigate me further.

As you’ve immediately paid the PFN, this is almost certainly the end of the matter.

Just count yourself VERY lucky it’s a penalty fare and not report for prosecution and pay the correct fare from now on as you’re on their radar.

 

[WesternLancer]

Payment of a penalty fare has never been enough to bar prosecution, only a decided (or time expired) appeal does that according to the regulations. It is this bar that the chief magistrate decided to ignore in the case you're thinking of. Paying a PF seems to stop prosecution with respect to that instance as a matter of policy though.

Thanks for responding on that. Yes that’s what I was thinking of.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Payment of a penalty fare has never been enough to bar prosecution

Did we not see West Midland Trains making various semi-literate accusations of other ticket irregularities against people who had settled Penalty Fares? After a while it seemed to stop and the rumour was that the someone or something higher up had banned the practice.

 

[Haywain]

Did we not see West Midland Trains making various semi-literate accusations of other ticket irregularities against people who had settled Penalty Fares?

That's nothing to do with prosecution, even if a letter might have suggested that it was.