Very infrequent replacement buses (Northern)

[Andyh82]

Today services on the Ilkley line were replaced by buses

The rail service usually runs every 30 minutes Ilkley to Leeds and every 30 minutes Ilkley to Bradford

The bus replacement scheduled today was every 1-3 hours to Leeds and every 3-6 hours to Bradford. Such a low frequency they’ve basically closed the railway for the weekend

Is this a shortage of drivers at bus operators or Northern not wanting to pay for a more frequent service?

And also due to the usually frequent rail service, scheduled buses in this area are very thin on the ground having all been axed over recent decades, particularly towards Bradford

 

[Watershed]

From what I can see, replacement buses look to have been scheduled to both Leeds and Bradford on a half-hourly basis, just like the normal train service.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if rather less than that ended up operating. Northern, in common with most other TOCs, simply aren't willing to pay what's needed to get enough buses to cover their entire replacement bus schedule.

 

[Andyh82]

From what I can see, replacement buses look to have been scheduled to both Leeds and Bradford on a half-hourly basis, just like the normal train service.

That’s not what it says here

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/templates/N39/2023-03-03-to-2023-03-06-1677852240.pdf

For some strange reason Saturday is very limited, Sunday is hourly on each route

 

[Watershed]

That’s not what it says here

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/templates/N39/2023-03-03-to-2023-03-06-1677852240.pdf

For some strange reason Saturday is very limited, Sunday is hourly on each route

I was going based on what was in RTT and other open data providers. Looks like Northern have (unsurprisingly) experienced bus shortages:

Please CHECK BEFORE YOU TRAVEL on the Saturday 4th and Sunday 5th March due to late notice cancellations to rail replacement bus services on the following routes.

Saturday 4th March.

Buckshaw Parkway to Preston - Limited service running. .
Preston to Lancaster - Limited service running.
Blackpool North to Preston - Limited service running.
Bradford Forster Square to Ilkley - Limited service running.
Leeds to Ilkley - Limited service running.

Sunday 5th March.

Blackpool North to Manchester Airport - Limited service running.
Blackpool North to Hellifield - Limited service running.
Bradford Forster Square to Ilkley - Limited service running.
Leeds to Ilkley - Limited service running.

and therefore published a heavily reduced PDF that reflected what they thought they'd actually be able to resource, and cancelled the remaining buses (ignore the 'removed' trains in that link - these are the normal trains that were deleted when the engineering work timetable was uploaded).

 

[Adam0984]

Northern are really struggling to get enough replacement buses across the network, the same has happened in the west during the Preston block

 

[scrapy]

Northern are really struggling to get enough replacement buses across the network, the same has happened in the west during the Preston block

From a source within Northern. This is allegedly due to DFT meddling. They are now setting a what train companies can pay per mile for replacement transport as existing contracts with suppliers expire. This is lower than what Northern paid last year despite inflation. Northern are the first TOC to renew/start contracts under new terms, so expect other TOCs to have similar problems in the future.

Transport companies are already struggling for drivers so will be less and less likely to supply the railway on less favourable terms. The TOCs can then get away with saying they couldn't source transport.

 

[Adam0984]

From a source within Northern. This is allegedly due to DFT meddling. They are now setting a what train companies can pay per mile for replacement transport as existing contracts with suppliers expire. This is lower than what Northern paid last year despite inflation. Northern are the first TOC to renew/start contracts under new terms, so expect other TOCs to have similar problems in the future.

Transport companies are already struggling for drivers so will be less and less likely to supply the railway on less favourable terms. The TOCs can then get away with saying they couldn't source transport.

Yep exactly that didn't want to go into too much detail

 

[185]

This explains why on one route a 16 seat transit minibus turned up for 50 passengers recently to replace the last train of the night, leading to serious disorder and staff from other operators again having to clean their mess up for them.

 

[Gordonman]

Yep exactly that didn't want to go into too much detail

Adam,

Do you work in Northern Control?

If so thanks for your assistance yesterday with the problem we had at Shipley

 

[Adam0984]

No I'm not in control just train crew

 

[Andyh82]

From a source within Northern. This is allegedly due to DFT meddling. They are now setting a what train companies can pay per mile for replacement transport as existing contracts with suppliers expire. This is lower than what Northern paid last year despite inflation. Northern are the first TOC to renew/start contracts under new terms, so expect other TOCs to have similar problems in the future.

Transport companies are already struggling for drivers so will be less and less likely to supply the railway on less favourable terms. The TOCs can then get away with saying they couldn't source transport.

Thanks for this, it makes more sense as you’d expect coach companies to have available drivers at this time of year, it’s hardly peak coach trip season.

I’ve noticed the companies used seems to be getting worse, whenever any rail replacement is needed around Halifax, Huddersfield sort of way it’s always random operators from the Burnley area who provide unmarked plain white coaches or hen/stag/races style minibuses. It’s all very ramshackle.

 

[Horizon22]

This is an industry-wide problem and it's been going on for 2+ years. Rail replacement suppliers (i.e coach and bus companies) cannot source enough drivers to run these services. Now this is for a variety of reasons including the costs the TOC will / is allowed to pay as well having decreased as trends within the bus/coach companies themselves which are not easy to resolve.

 

[M60lad]

There is one reputable operator based in Greater Manchester that has done Rail Replacements for Northern in the past and used to provide quite a number of coaches for various replacements but unfortunately they are too busy with other work at the moment so can't do it.

 

[ChrisExcel]

Today services on the Ilkley line were replaced by buses

The rail service usually runs every 30 minutes Ilkley to Leeds and every 30 minutes Ilkley to Bradford

The bus replacement scheduled today was every 1-3 hours to Leeds and every 3-6 hours to Bradford. Such a low frequency they’ve basically closed the railway for the weekend

Is this a shortage of drivers at bus operators or Northern not wanting to pay for a more frequent service?

And also due to the usually frequent rail service, scheduled buses in this area are very thin on the ground having all been axed over recent decades, particularly towards Bradford

Hi there.. I suspect the aforementioned bus companies were ill informed over this decision by Northern. It's actually increasingly common for this to be happening as well. In the 1960's/1970's they were still major happenings like this occurring but generally they was more coordination between affected parties back then... plus better buses. Maybe i'll get struck down by other veg for saying this but a lot of bus companies... even other companies (oil corporations etc) are really putting all available resources into ultra max profiteering and unfortunately this is a culture that is predominant. and that basically translates into less but ultimately more fully laden buses becoming the new norm.