Verification Letter - Fare evasion

[Fran7]

Hi All,
My sister received a TFL letter saying that she may be charged for fare evasion, she didn't touch up entering Clapton Station upon arriving at Liverpool Street she was stopped by two TFL/overground enforcers and told she had an incomplete journey one of the two TFL/officers asked for her details which she gave, all this was while she was standing still on the train side so upon leaving she touched out with her debit card see attached, one of the two TFL personnel said to her she was lucky not to get a fine but she would receive a punishing letter ie the letter that she now has received, saying this could go to court/be persecuted she now is super worry because she is a teacher and this could effect her if really goes to court any suggestion to what to do or how to mitigate this without a lawyer?
Thank you!

 

[Titfield]

Please can you post a copy of the letter received with all personal details and anything that may enable your sister to be identified redacted (ie obscured)?

Advice specific to your sister's issue can then be given.

 

[Fran7]

Thank you for your reply here is the letter

 

[Gloster]

I suggest that you also black out the case number., which is at the top of both sides.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2023 ==

Thank you for your reply here is the letter

 

[Papyrus]

I suggest that you also black out the case number., which is at the top of both sides.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2023 ==

And your sister’s name, she can be identified from the letter as posted

 

[Fran7]

Thank you

 

[MikeWh]

I'm a little confused here. Was she using an Oyster card, or was it a bank card? Can you post journey history for the day?

 

[Fran7]

I'm a little confused here. Was she using an Oyster card, or was it a bank card? Can you post journey history for the day?

She used her oyster from Heathrow to Clapton, and then she says she touched at Clapton to board the train to Liverpool Street when she got there and went to touch out the card didn’t work so a TFL
The employee took her card and said incomplete journey, then the first TFL person called a second one who asked my sister for her address and details telling her that she would receive a punishing letter, while this conversation was happening she was still standing on the train side so when she left she touched with her debit card, I will upload her journey both by oyster and debit card.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==

Here is her history for the 25th Aug, should she request footage of CCTV?

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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==

Thank you for your reply here is the letter

Hi Everyone,

This is what we thinking of sending to TFL in response to the letter

Dear Sir/Madam,

Regarding your letter dated Tuesday 25th August 2023, I acknowledge
that under the mentioned TFL regulations it appears that I have
committed an offence but I assure you that the act was committed
without malicious intent to avoid paying for my journey. As you can
see from the attached documents, I used my Oyster card from Heathrow
to Clapton. I believed that I had touched in when I alighted the
overground train from Clapton to Liverpool Street.

Unfortunately, when I tried to exit the station at Liverpool Street
and couldn’t do so I was approached by a TFL representative who took
my card from my hand and informed me that I had an incomplete journey.

The TFL officer did not identify himself, but I assumed by his
aggressive demanding demeanour he was an enforcement officer who then
called for a colleague to join him and asked for my details which were
duly provided.

The second officer verbally informed me that he would not fine me on
the spot and that I would receive a "punishing letter". When I exited
Liverpool Street overground, I paid for the journey with my Debit Card
(see attached document). I then paid again with my Debit Card from
Liverpool Street to Hammersmith to my final destination.

I travel on TFL almost every day for both work and personal reasons,
and I have never failed to pay for my journeys as you will see from
the attached monthly usage report.

I apologize profusely for any inconvenience this may have caused and I
hope that this matter can be resolved without further action needed.

Please accept my sincerest apology and assure you that this will not
happen again.

Kind regards,

Any feedback would be appreciated, also does anyone know how long will take for TFL to respond to the email?

Thanks

 

[MikeWh]

OK, thanks for the uploads.

What actually happened is that the journey from Heathrow to Clapton used up almost all the money on the card. When you touch in to start a journey the system checks that you have enough to make the cheapest journey from that station at that time. 60p was not enough so the validator will have beeped twice and showed a red light. The correct action at that time would have been to top up and then touch in again. When the card was touched out again at Liverpool Street the system will have tried to charge an incomplete journey, but again 60p was not enough hence why it failed again.

You have actually paid twice for the fare from Clapton to Hammersmith which is £3.40 at peak times.

If you haven't already sent the reply to TfL then I would amend it a bit. Keep the apology in place because you were not acting correctly. Explain that you now understand that the card had insufficient credit at Clapton and you realise that in future you need to check what the validator says carefully. Point out that you have actually overpaid on the debit card and enquire whether they can refund the auto completed journey. Finish by asking them if you can pay any administration fees to close the matter without further action. Enclose both journey histories so they can see that you do usually pay properly and did in the end pay for the journey using the debit card.

I hope that they may take your contrite apology along with your new understanding of how the system works and close the matter without further charge.


Other comments: You may not have realised that the journey from Heathrow was charged at peak rates even though it was the middle of the day. This may have contributed to the thought that you had enough on the card. Finally, Clapton to Hammersmith is a zone 2 to zone 2 journey via zone 1. You only pay for each zone once which is why the full fare was paid for Liverpool Street to Hammersmith. I hope this helps you to understand what happened, and good luck with your reply.

 

[Fran7]

OK, thanks for the uploads.

What actually happened is that the journey from Heathrow to Clapton used up almost all the money on the card. When you touch in to start a journey the system checks that you have enough to make the cheapest journey from that station at that time. 60p was not enough so the validator will have beeped twice and showed a red light. The correct action at that time would have been to top up and then touch in again. When the card was touched out again at Liverpool Street the system will have tried to charge an incomplete journey, but again 60p was not enough hence why it failed again.

You have actually paid twice for the fare from Clapton to Hammersmith which is £3.40 at peak times.

If you haven't already sent the reply to TfL then I would amend it a bit. Keep the apology in place because you were not acting correctly. Explain that you now understand that the card had insufficient credit at Clapton and you realise that in future you need to check what the validator says carefully. Point out that you have actually overpaid on the debit card and enquire whether they can refund the auto completed journey. Finish by asking them if you can pay any administration fees to close the matter without further action. Enclose both journey histories so they can see that you do usually pay properly and did in the end pay for the journey using the debit card.

I hope that they may take your contrite apology along with your new understanding of how the system works and close the matter without further charge.


Other comments: You may not have realised that the journey from Heathrow was charged at peak rates even though it was the middle of the day. This may have contributed to the thought that you had enough on the card. Finally, Clapton to Hammersmith is a zone 2 to zone 2 journey via zone 1. You only pay for each zone once which is why the full fare was paid for Liverpool Street to Hammersmith. I hope this helps you to understand what happened, and good luck with your reply.

Thank you so much for your feedback, I will reply to them today and amend the letter as you suggested. Thank you again for for the feedback.

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Does anyone knows how long it takes for TFL to get back to us after having sent the letter/email? Is worth send a second responses if I don’t hear anything by next month?
Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2023 ==

I have sent the letter about 10 days ago, shall I send a follow up ?