Verification letter (fare evasion)

[cwk809]

Hi. It happened just a week ago. After getting off the national rail train (I was inside the station already). When I tapped in (Stratford), it showed seek assistance, but I was in a rush since I was already late for work, and I wanted to sort it out when I arrived at my destination (central hackney), where there are kiosks. As soon as I arrived, I approached the staff member there, she said I only had 1.20p left, and I did not have a valid ticket. She told me not to explain to her and explain myself in the letter. I was deeply shocked because I was honest with her and had no intention of escaping. But the fact is that I do not have a valid ticket.
I always commute the same route and have never been charged for that. Does any experience the same issue as me? and do you guys have any suggestions or ideas on what will happen next? Many Thanks.

 

[jeremyjh]

Hello. From the details you give, it seems like you boarded the train knowing that you had not successfully touched in. Others will surely have things to say about the process and how to write a good response, but I'd start with this: it's possible the member of staff was doing you a favour of sorts by suggesting you not mention to her that you've done this before. The letter is asking for details about the incident in question, so I'd stick to things that are strictly relevant to that particular individual journey.

 

[cwk809]

Hello. From the details you give, it seems like you boarded the train knowing that you had not successfully touched in. Others will surely have things to say about the process and how to write a good response, but I'd start with this: it's possible the member of staff was doing you a favour of sorts by suggesting you not mention to her that you've done this before. The letter is asking for details about the incident in question, so I'd stick to things that are strictly relevant to that particular individual journey.

I thought I had tapped in, but I did not know I didn't have enough money.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought I had tapped in, but I did not know I didn't have enough money.

Had you not tapped in on the way to Stratford?

 

[cwk809]

Had you not tapped in on the way to Stratford?

I did tap in, but it showed seek assistance 36 (I thought I had a history of tapping in), but I was really in a rush and wanted to sort it out when I arrived. When I spoke to the staff (i did not know they were inspectors), they said no valid ticket

 

[Starmill]

I did tap in, but it showed seek assistance 36 (I thought I had a history of tapping in), but I was really in a rush and wanted to sort it out when I arrived. When I spoke to the staff (i did not know they were inspectors), they said no valid ticket

Where did you board the train that you took to Stratford, and what happened there?

 

[swt_passenger]

I did tap in, but it showed seek assistance 36 (I thought I had a history of tapping in), but I was really in a rush and wanted to sort it out when I arrived. When I spoke to the staff (i did not know they were inspectors), they said no valid ticket

I meant how did you pay for the trip TO Stratford?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I did tap in, but it showed seek assistance 36

Barrier code 36 is insufficient PAYG, presumably?

 

[cwk809]

I meant how did you pay for the trip TO Stratford?

Because I took the national rail train (GA), then got off Stratford (I was inside the platform), (I did not need to tap from the barriers) (I just tapped the small machine)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

Where did you board the train that you took to Stratford, and what happened there?

I took GA to Stratford where I was in platform 9, and then I tapped in and walked to platform 1

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

Barrier code 36 is insufficient PAYG, presumably?

probably but I have no idea

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

Barrier code 36 is insufficient PAYG, presumably?

I topped up regularly and have never been accused of fare evasion. now I know what 36 means

 

[swt_passenger]

Because I took the national rail train (GA), then got off Stratford (I was inside the platform), (I did not need to tap from the barriers) (I just tapped the small machine)

So you did have a valid ticket for GA?

Seems to me this is a basic weakness of the platform validator setup, it is trying to tell you that you can’t enter, but you’re already physically inside the barriers. Then eventually you can’t get out.

Is your Oyster card registered, or did they take your name and address at Hackney Central?

Post #2 asked about “the letter”, have you actually had a letter yet, because a week seems fast.

 

[cwk809]

So you did have a valid ticket for GA?

Seems to me this is a basic weakness of the platform validator setup, it is trying to tell you that you can’t enter, but you’re already physically inside the barriers. Then eventually you can’t get out.

Is your Oyster card registered, or did they take your name and address at Hackney Central?

Post #2 asked about “the letter”, have you actually had a letter yet, because a week seems fast.

yes. I got the letter within 3 days and asked my lawyer to reply. I am shocked since I have no intention of not paying my fee.
I have a valid ticket for GA, but it does not matter since I do not have a valid ticket for Overground.
I have attached all my oyster history to the Verfication letter.
The lawyer said it is highly mitigated. But he cannot guarantee that it is 100% successful

 

[island]

What ticket did you use to get to Stratford?

 

[Starmill]

I topped up regularly and have never been accused of fare evasion. now I know what 36 means

To be fair you don't really need to know what it means. If you don't see the reader display 'enter' then you haven't started a Pay as you Go journey.

Given you touched and were shown a message to seek assistance, but didn't, and then boarded a train, unfortunately it will be very difficult to argue against any accusation that you were trying to avoid paying.

 

[cwk809]

So you did have a valid ticket for GA?

Seems to me this is a basic weakness of the platform validator setup, it is trying to tell you that you can’t enter, but you’re already physically inside the barriers. Then eventually you can’t get out.

Is your Oyster card registered, or did they take your name and address at Hackney Central?

Post #2 asked about “the letter”, have you actually had a letter yet, because a week seems fast.

Because there are no staff/kisoks nearby. I need to walk at least 3 mins to the entry. Becuase I am already late.
A long time ago, this happened to me; when I spoke to the underground staff, they allowed me to top up and dedecuted from my Journey without any problem.

 

[Starmill]

yes. I got the letter within 3 days and asked my lawyer to reply. I am shocked since I have no intention of not paying my fee.
I have a valid ticket for GA, but it does not matter since I do not have a valid ticket for Overground.
I have attached all my oyster history to the Verfication letter.
The lawyer said it is highly mitigated. But he cannot guarantee that it is 100% successful

It strikes me that it would be easier for you in future to just buy a ticket from wherever you boarded the Greater Anglia service to Hackney Central. This will allow you to make connections without the need to touch.

 

[cwk809]

What ticket did you use to get to Stratford?

My national rail train stopped in Stratford platform 9, and I needed to walk to platform 1

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

It strikes me that it would be easier for you in future to just buy a ticket from wherever you boarded the Greater Anglia service to Hackney Central. This will allow you to make connections without the need to touch.

I spoke to them, GA and overground are two different companies, and I need to tap to change in Stratford. They do not sell ticket to Hackney in GA

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

To be fair you don't really need to know what it means. If you don't see the reader display 'enter' then you haven't started a Pay as you Go journey.

Given you touched and were shown a message to seek assistance, but didn't, and then boarded a train, unfortunately it will be very difficult to argue against any accusation that you were trying to avoid paying.

But as soon as I arrived in Hackney, I approached the staff there immediately. But I guess this does not justify

 

[island]

I spoke to them, GA and overground are two different companies,

but you can get a through ticket

and I need to tap to change in Stratford.

No you don't

They do not sell ticket to Hackney in GA

Yes they do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

Given you touched and were shown a message to seek assistance, but didn't, and then boarded a train, unfortunately it will be very difficult to argue against any accusation that you were trying to avoid paying.

This is correct and is the essence of the matter.

The correct action to take would have been to use your ticket from wherever to Stratford to exit the station, and top up your Oyster card. (There used to be some top up machines within the ticket barriers though I think these have been done away with.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Are there barriers at Hackney Central? Are they often open?

 

[Starmill]

Are there barriers at Hackney Central? Are they often open?

Yes and no respectively.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2022 ==

I spoke to them, GA and overground are two different companies, and I need to tap to change in Stratford. They do not sell ticket to Hackney in GA

It sounds very likely that you were given incorrect advice here; this forum is a good source of information about your journey if you'd like to understand more about this. I note that you have however decided not to tell us where you're actually travelling from so it's unlikely that there's anything to add.

 

[Master29]

Why would you want to "sort the problem out" at Hackney Central rather than Stratford where you could have cleared things up easier given you were in a hurry anyway? Just an observation that might be relevant.