Velaro D and E320

[Crossforth]

I was just wondering if DB start operating through the tunnel to St. Pancras and when Eurostar get their E320's whether they will be put into the TOPS system? (Class 374?)

Just wondered if anybody knows any more on the subject.

 

[cj_1985]

i wouldnt imagine that they would be added on TOPS...
i say that as there wouldnt be much point adding it to TOPS unless they could run on Network Rail infrastructure ie. Not on HS1

although EWS when they set up ECR hired iirc 4x Vossloh G1206 and they were registered on TOPS as class 21... but that was apparently simply an admistration or accounting exercise not because the locos could or would be able to be used on NR metals.. unless you cound the track at Toton depot as NR (they were moved by road from Dollands Moor to Toton for repainting)

 

[ainsworth74]

As cj said I wouldn't expect that they will be put onto TOPS as they aren't (and couldn't anyway) going to be used on Network Rail metals. I would hazard a guess that the only reason that the Eurostars have a TOPS number is due to the fact that they used to run into Waterloo from the tunnel and were also expected to run North of London regularly in service as well. As these new trains won't be doing that and will be sticking to the CTRL I wouldn't expect them to get TOPS numbers.

I could of course be completely wrong however

 

[Nym]

Isn't HS1 run in terms of day to day running by Network Rail?

And where would one draw the line at ending the use of TOPS? If HSline only stock wern't inluded on TOPS, would the new stock on the HS2 line not be included, and if it wasn't, it wouldn't be ab;e to use the 'mixed purpouse' platforms at the new Euston station.

I'd say they proberbly will end up being included on TOPS, if for nothing else other than operational convenicence.

 

[ainsworth74]

Isn't HS1 run in terms of day to day running by Network Rail?

HS1 is owned by London & Continental Railways (actually I'm not sure on that point seeing as it was sold not so long ago) whilst Network Rail are sub contracted to act as infrastructure manager. I think the key distinction might well be ownership, NR don't own it they simply maintain it on behalf of the owner.

And where would one draw the line at ending the use of TOPS? If HSline only stock wern't inluded on TOPS, would the new stock on the HS2 line not be included, and if it wasn't, it wouldn't be ab;e to use the 'mixed purpouse' platforms at the new Euston station.

I would assume that HS2 will be owned by Network Rail surely therefore TOPS would be in play? However even if HS2 isn't owned by NR trains will be using Network Rail metals (from Birmingham to Glasgow and at Euston) hence will get TOPS classification. The new Eurostar and DB trains won't be so might not need to get TOPS.

 

[cj_1985]

i think the more important question rather than whether the ICE-3(V) and E* E320s will be on TOPS... is will they be required to display a yellow warning panel...

infact in response to my own question i guess we will see if E* include a yellow front when the first of the class 373 eurostar units gets the new livery.. if they still recieved a yellow front its fair to bet that the E320s will get a yellow front... but how about the ICE-3(V) units

ICE-3(V) = ICE-3 style Valero units

 

[Crossforth]

i think the more important question rather than whether the ICE-3(V) and E* E320s will be on TOPS... is will they be required to display a yellow warning panel...

infact in response to my own question i guess we will see if E* include a yellow front when the first of the class 373 eurostar units gets the new livery.. if they still recieved a yellow front its fair to bet that the E320s will get a yellow front... but how about the ICE-3(V) units

ICE-3(V) = ICE-3 style Valero units

My first thought was yes the Eurostar units will as the mock up of the E320 did but that was before they announced the change of livery.

Anyone know when we will first see the new livery?

 

[cj_1985]

My first thought was yes the Eurostar units will as the mock up of the E320 did but that was before they announced the change of livery.

Anyone know when we will first see the new livery?

im sure i read in one of the magazines that the new livery was expected to make its debut within the next few months... but would have thought that any relivery programme would coincide with the refurbishment of the units... althought acording to wikipedia.. the first class 373 isnt expected to be refurbished and released into service until some time next year (2012)

 

[jopsuk]

Re the yellow ends- I can't remember where it was I found it, but I had seen an official (NR) answer saying that yellow ends would not be required if the headlights of the train are to the latest pan-European standards (ie blindingly bright even in daylight)

 

[swt_passenger]

HS1 is owned by London & Continental Railways (actually I'm not sure on that point seeing as it was sold not so long ago) whilst Network Rail are sub contracted to act as infrastructure manager. I think the key distinction might well be ownership, NR don't own it they simply maintain it on behalf of the owner.

HS1's freehold is and was always owned by the DfT. LCR originally had the 'operating concession' and called this HS1 Ltd, but as you note this was sold to a consortium of two pension funds last year. "HS1 Limited is jointly owned by Borealis Infrastructure and Ontario Teachers Pension Plan, two Canadian pension funds" - although their trading name remains 'HS1 Ltd', as you'd expect.

As I understand it (from their website) HS1 Ltd is the 'infrastructure manager' and Network Rail is their 'infrastructure maintainer' and operates HS1 on a day to day basis.

Not that any of that answers the TOPS question though...

 

[gordonthemoron]

AIUI, trains in Netherlands are required to have a white panel on the front, whereas the UK requires yellow. France, Germany & Belgium are not fussed. So could there be a problem with Amsterdam-London trains?

 

[starrymarkb]

Netherlands is yellow or white (though Thalys seam to ignore it)

France technically requires stripes on the front for all rolling stock (though this is only ever enforced for Open Access)

And I suspect if they do appear on tops it will be as Class 407, pedants may argue that they are not third rail units, but it would be the most sensible thing to match them to their DB number (excluding check). But I think HS1's systems will probably be based on the UIC number as a newbuild international line.

ie xx-70-0395001-x
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My first thought was yes the Eurostar units will as the mock up of the E320 did but that was before they announced the change of livery.

Anyone know when we will first see the new livery?

Have a look at this

http://www.eurostar.com/UK/uk/leisure/about_eurostar/new_branding.jsp

Only a teaser but....

 

[Boothby97]

But if the Velaro-D dosen't have to be on TOPS why is the Class 373 registered by TOPS when it only now uses HS1 in Britain.

 

[Crossforth]

But if the Velaro-D dosen't have to be on TOPS why is the Class 373 registered by TOPS when it only now uses HS1 in Britain.

I assume because it used to run on normal metals when running out of Waterloo and out of King's Cross for GNER

 

[starrymarkb]

Ashford...

 

[jopsuk]

There are things that have been given TOPS numbers that have not run on British Rail/Railtrack/Network Rail metals. Some did have rails IN them though.