Vehicle History - The MCW Metrobus

[Strathclyder]

To compliment my rather successful thread on the Volvo Ailsa from a few months ago and as something of a continuation of the Scania-Metropolitan thread, this thread concerns itself with the most successful of the 'upstarts' that emerged in the 70s to challenge the Leyland monopoly (at least in terms of numbers sold): the MCW Metrobus. This thread is mainly about the type's origins & development history, it's service history (this can include the prototype(s)/pre-production examples and the examples built for export) and present-day survivors, whether they be in preservation or fulfilling a non-PSV role of some kind. Personal recollections of them are of course also welcome, either from their in-service days or in preservation.

Some videos to round this opening post out, showcasing both Cummins & Gardner-powered Metros new to London, the West Midlands & Hong Kong:

Over to the rest of you.

 

[adrock1976]

I can recall the MCW Metrobus being a common sight in the West Midlands.

The only garages of West Midlands Travel I can think of that still had the Leyland Atlanteans around 1988 were West Bromwich and Dudley (unsure about Coventry and Washwood Heath).

Walsall, Perry Barr, West Bromwich, Dudley, Hockley, Lea Hall, and Birmingham Central had the Timesaver branded MCWs, which I believe had an extra gear in the gearbox.

 

[Mr Manager]

Not forgetting the Rolls Royce powered ones.

 

[Typhoon]

I can recall the MCW Metrobus being a common sight in the West Midlands.

The only garages of West Midlands Travel I can think of that still had the Leyland Atlanteans around 1988 were West Bromwich and Dudley (unsure about Coventry and Washwood Heath).

Walsall, Perry Barr, West Bromwich, Dudley, Hockley, Lea Hall, and Birmingham Central had the Timesaver branded MCWs, which I believe had an extra gear in the gearbox.

There weren't many Atlanteans around the West Midlands at any time. There was a very early batch usually seen on either the 48 or the 50 I believe. Most of the double deckers pre Metrobus were Fleetlines; not only was it Birmingham's stock bus but West Brom's, Walsall's and Coventry's too - they even got some from the Midland Red deal and, later, some ex-London ones. Coventry did have Metrobuses, how early I can't remember, as I believe did Washwood Heath.

You'll have some former WMPTE manager turning over in his grave with talk like that. The West Midlands looked after its own!

 

[JonathanH]

Considering how many were built and the characteristic noise they make far fewer have made it into preservation than other types. I guess the Bristol VR was wider spread around the country which meant more have been saved. Presumably there is also a mechanical / technical limitation around corrosion that means they are harder to preserve.

 

[Typhoon]

Considering how many were built and the characteristic noise they make far fewer have made it into preservation than other types. I guess the Bristol VR was wider spread around the country which meant more have been saved. Presumably there is also a mechanical / technical limitation around corrosion that means they are harder to preserve.

Over half the number built went to London Transport and West Mids. They were never an iconic London bus so it is perhaps not surprising that they are not common in collections round about the capitol. Wythall Transport Museum (just south of Brum) has a couple.

 

[busesrusuk]

I was a big fan of the Metrobus - thought it looked really good when they were first introduced. In later life I started to learn to drive in a Metrobus but by that time London Buses had replaced the hydraulic brakes with air brakes and I found it difficult to get a smooth braking compared to the DMS. I switched back to the DMS for the remainder of my training purely for the better braking characteristics and I subsequently passed my test in a DMS. However, the Metro was a far better drive overall with stellar acceleration compared to the DMS and romped along quite happily at about 45-50mph.

It was the Metrobus that started my fascination with Hong Kong buses and in particular the 11.3m two axle Metro's of China Motor Bus; huge powerful buses, but for sheer bulk the 12m triaxles were hard to beat especially when crush loaded. You really had to plan ahead to ensure you could actually get off at the stop you wanted.

Of course the ultimate development of the Metrobus was the Metroliner coach - a really impressive looking vehicle in my view.

A couple of pics of Metro's to illustrate the thread including one of the relatively small numbers that didn't have MCW bodywork bodied :

Preserved WMPTE 2462 Apr18 | Spring gathering, Cobham. Apr 2… | Flickr
MTL London M879 | London Bridge | keith wood | Flickr
LG M1389 | Merton Garage. The bus has just arrived form Stoc… | Flickr
Preserved WM Travel 2957 Aug19 | Buses Festival, Gaydon. Aug… | Flickr
Preserved MPTE 0062 Sep19 | Merseyside running day, Sep 2019… | Flickr
Preserved West Midlands Travel 2989 Aug18 | Buses Festival, … | Flickr
OLST XMB779 May14 | St Paul's cathedral, May 2014 | keith wood | Flickr

 

[Statto]

There weren't many Atlanteans around the West Midlands at any time. There was a very early batch usually seen on either the 48 or the 50 I believe. Most of the double deckers pre Metrobus were Fleetlines; not only was it Birmingham's stock bus but West Brom's, Walsall's and Coventry's too - they even got some from the Midland Red deal and, later, some ex-London ones. Coventry did have Metrobuses, how early I can't remember, as I believe did Washwood Heath.

You'll have some former WMPTE manager turning over in his grave with talk like that. The West Midlands looked after its own!

It's not a surprise WMPTE had ties with MCW given where the factory was, stones throw from WMPTE's own Washwood Heath garage.


Merseyside on the other hand only had Metrobuses in small batches, as they had their ties with Leyland & the Atlantean, when MCW went belly up some Merseybus Metrobus MKII's were unfinished, so Merseybus finished them off at their own Edge Lane works.

I did like the Metrobus though, main issue was corrosion wasn't it, which was a trait with MCW built products, i do remember GMPTE Metrobuses which had Northern Counties bodywork that was fitted out for the GM Express network, some of these were at Tameside mostly for the 400, then Oldham, but some went to Atherton in the mid 90s.

 

[DunsBus]

It's not a surprise WMPTE had ties with MCW given where the factory was, stones throw from WMPTE's own Washwood Heath garage.


Merseyside on the other hand only had Metrobuses in small batches, as they had their ties with Leyland & the Atlantean, when MCW went belly up some Merseybus Metrobus MKII's were unfinished, so Merseybus finished them off at their own Edge Lane works.

I did like the Metrobus though, main issue was corrosion wasn't it, which was a trait with MCW built products, i do remember GMPTE Metrobuses which had Northern Counties bodywork that was fitted out for the GM Express network, some of these were at Tameside mostly for the 400, then Oldham, but some went to Atherton in the mid 90s.

If I'm correct the Metrobuses built for Strathclyde around the same time as the Merseybus batch were the subject of legal wrangles over warranties and spare parts, which delayed their delivery and saw them enter service on G-plates (their booked F-plates ending up on new Citybuses). Pretty sure too that WMT rejected one of its final Metrobuses as it was so poorly built.

 

[bobslack1982]

The Go Ahead Northern ones with Gardner 6LXCT (or 6LXDT - I’ve never been able to confirm which it was) were phenomenal machines. Part of the C - - - OCN batch. Did any of those make it into preservation? Or are there any videos of them?

 

[Journeyman]

I grew up in south west London, where bus services were dominated by Metrobuses allocated to Fulwell and Norbiton. They were introduced there when I was about five years old, and I remember them striking me as incredibly futuristic, especially because they sounded so radically different to everything else. They had a good long run in service, and I was well into my twenties by the time they went, so I fondly remember them as the archetypal bus of my youth! Certainly LT seemed capable of getting them to work properly, after all the problems they'd had with the Fleetlines and Metropolitans, and they seemed to have been a good buy.

I once travelled on one to Butlins in Bognor Regis, for a school trip one summer. That was pretty memorable!

 

[flymo]

For the Hong Kong variants you simply could not beat a ride on one on the old KMB route 70 with the 2 + 3 seating upstairs. Front seat on the 3- side so the wide open front sliding window giving you the outdoor feeling. thrashing up Nathan Road, through Lion Rock then barrelling down into Tai Wai. Drifting at 50km/h round the roundabouts in Fanling on the way to Sheung Shui.. Wind in your face, flies in your teeth for over 90 minutes of fun filled non-aircon thrash. And all for less than 70p.... (at the time).

 

[Bristol LHS]

The Go Ahead Northern ones with Gardner 6LXCT (or 6LXDT - I’ve never been able to confirm which it was) were phenomenal machines. Part of the C - - - OCN batch. Did any of those make it into preservation? Or are there any videos of them?

Were those the ExpressLink ones? Amazing buses inside and out, quite ahead of their time - forerunners of today’s impressive X-Lines fleet.

 

[MotCO]

How about a Metrobus Metrobus?

Photo scans0009

Metrobus operated a handful of Metrobuses - here BYX259V is seen on route 147 at Old Steine, Brighton

www.flickr.com

(My photo)
Picture shows a blue and yellow Metrobus, operating for Metrobus in Brighton

 

[carlberry]

The Go Ahead Northern ones with Gardner 6LXCT (or 6LXDT - I’ve never been able to confirm which it was) were phenomenal machines. Part of the C - - - OCN batch. Did any of those make it into preservation? Or are there any videos of them?

The Key Publishing book about the Metrobus states that the 11 Express Link vehicles had a 6LXDT engine, a 12.7 litre version of the 10.45 litre 6LXCT

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Go Ahead Northern ones with Gardner 6LXCT (or 6LXDT - I’ve never been able to confirm which it was) were phenomenal machines. Part of the C - - - OCN batch. Did any of those make it into preservation? Or are there any videos reof them?

They were fantastic machines. Chester le Street depot had three (3779/3780/3785) that were used on the X1/X10 Newcastle to Middlesbrough and X70 Newcastle to Darlington and they were ridiculously quick. I think that they were hammered and whilst one was looked at for preservation, corrosion was a big problem. I think they were 6LXCTs - EDIT - @carlberry has checked and they were DTs. As I've said before, I have great memories of travelling on the 722/723 Newcastle to Darlington on Northern's standard examples in the UTN-Y and A-BCN batches and the difference in performance on those compared to the similar aged United Olympians was pronounced.

Aside from the occasional London example, the only other place where I travelled on them was, of course, the West Midlands where even in the early 2000s, they were still very common with 20 year old examples still in service with many of the Mk2s having been extensively rebuilt by Marshall of Cambridge especially at the rear end. It was always a treat to head to Dudley, not a commonly heard phrase, to enjoy travelling on Metrobuses and Lynxes.

 

[Strathclyder]

If I'm correct the Metrobuses built for Strathclyde around the same time as the Merseybus batch were the subject of legal wrangles over warranties and spare parts, which delayed their delivery and saw them enter service on G-plates (their booked F-plates ending up on new Citybuses). Pretty sure too that WMT rejected one of its final Metrobuses as it was so poorly built.

Indeed. The story goes (am open to correction here) that the Metrobus order in question was reduced from 50 to 25 and the simultaneous B10M Citybus order was increased from 70 to 95 to make up for the resulting shortfall. The F-plates in question were:

• F89-99 JYS (AH7-AH17)
• F790-795 LSU (AH18-AH23)

 

[37114]

Not forgetting the Rolls Royce powered ones.

Yes, Bristol had 5 of them (strange purchases bearing in mind the Bristol factory was still open) with RR engines

Considering how many were built and the characteristic noise they make far fewer have made it into preservation than other types. I guess the Bristol VR was wider spread around the country which meant more have been saved. Presumably there is also a mechanical / technical limitation around corrosion that means they are harder to preserve.

Corrosion was a big issue (as it was for the MCW bodied DMS' and the Metro Scania), WMT ended up rebuilding quite a few, you can tell the ones they did as they made the lower deck rear window smaller as part of the work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, Bristol had 5 of them (strange purchases bearing in mind the Bristol factory was still open) with RR engines

They were an NBC experiment for operational testing; Maidstone and District had a batch too but possibly with Gardner engines. However, it was Northern who were the main NBC purchasers with 15 Mk1s and 82 Mk2s (I think).

One interesting order was a then privatised East Kent buying some

 

[Typhoon]

They were an NBC experiment for operational testing; Maidstone and District had a batch too but possibly with Gardner engines. However, it was Northern who were the main NBC purchasers with 15 Mk1s and 82 Mk2s (I think).

One interesting order was a then privatised East Kent buying some

M & D - I think some had Gardner engines as part of the trial, possibly one or two with Rolls Royce engines.

East Kent - 21 Metrobus Mk2s (I think), so a reasonable number for an ex-NBC but not in the Northern class; spent a lot of their life on Thanet (and on the run to Canterbury along the island road). They also bought Metroliners so someone was a fan of MCW!

 

[RELL6L]

My recollection is hazier than I thought it would be on these!
The vast majority had the Gardner 6LXB engine which, by this time, was pretty slow and plodding. I think all the PTEs had some but London and West Midlands had by far the most.
I'm afraid I found them rather boring, they were not especially characterful and more or less all the same.

London had a batch of 22(?) with Cummins engines. Did many others have Cummins engines? The engine became common later in Olympians and Lynx and generally they went like the clappers.
South Yorkshire had a large batch. I know their Dominators had Rolls Royce engines but did their Metrobuses too?
Yorkshire Traction had a low height batch.
Greater Manchester had some with Northern Counties bodies. A batch of these replaced the Metropolitans on the 400 Trans Lancs Express, they may have had Cummins or Rolls Royce engines.
East Kent, Bristol, Maidstone and District, Northern, plus municipals Reading, Newport, Hull, Leicester, all of who took the Metropolitan before.
No doubt there were others but I don't remember at the moment.

 

[Geordie driver]

Only some memories to add, the company I worked for in Newcastle bought about ten of these from London around 1999, 3 speed full auto and all with a top speed just over 30mph.

We went down in a mini bus and picked them up at a service station on the A1 just north of London, I forget which one.it was the middle of winter but I was well wrapped up, had my radio and had a flask and sandwiches with me. Cab heaters were ok.

Took us best part of 5 hours to get down south, then the long journey back, 250 miles at just over 30mph, I think I stopped once for a wee. That was a long, long day.

As for the vehicle themselves, I loved them, smooth and easy to drive, brakes and horn were great, I believe they even had indicators fitted, mind, I never used them.

The middle door was removed as we had a long standing agreement not to use them For the most part they were kept on works and schools services. Most drivers on the main rotas hated them as they were so slow.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My recollection is hazier than I thought it would be on these!
The vast majority had the Gardner 6LXB engine which, by this time, was pretty slow and plodding. I think all the PTEs had some but London and West Midlands had by far the most.
I'm afraid I found them rather boring, they were not especially characterful and more or less all the same.

London had a batch of 22(?) with Cummins engines. Did many others have Cummins engines? The engine became common later in Olympians and Lynx and generally they went like the clappers.
South Yorkshire had a large batch. I know their Dominators had Rolls Royce engines but did their Metrobuses too?
Yorkshire Traction had a low height batch.
Greater Manchester had some with Northern Counties bodies. A batch of these replaced the Metropolitans on the 400 Trans Lancs Express, they may have had Cummins or Rolls Royce engines.
East Kent, Bristol, Maidstone and District, Northern, plus municipals Reading, Newport, Hull, Leicester, all of who took the Metropolitan before.
No doubt there were others but I don't remember at the moment.

The Northern ones were, I think, mainly Cummins L10 engined. The exceptions being the s*** off a shovel Expresslink ones, the Mk1s, and the first half batch of Mk2s where 3501-5 were Gardners and 3506-10 were Cummins. I think 3501-5 were originally at Chester le Street and 3506-10 at Murton but they were swapped over after a year or so as the Cummins were quicker and better suited to the cross Durham routes like the 722/723.

I think most of the PTEs took them, some as experimental (TWPTE) or in greater numbers. Oddly, Strathclyde, Merseyside and West Yorkshire took them, standardised on other models, and then took quite late batches again.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Somewhat surprisingly, the first bus I ever drove was a WMPTE Metrobus, on the private roadway at their training school during a visit arranged for GMT traffic trainees and schedules staff in the early 1980s. Didn't seem too difficult until I came down the rather steep humped section - quite nerve-tingling with such light controls. A subsequent circuit on a Fleetline was far trickier, but at least you felt more connected to the road in a bus of that era.

Soon after I would be occasionally conducting them from GMT's Princess Road depot, and rapidly began to loathe them, as did my usual drivers. Noisy, jerky things - the Metrobuses, not the drivers - and not a patch on the usual GMT Standard. Metrobuses might arguably be nicer looking, probably faster, but definitely less sophisticated. They also proved to be the first step on my life-long dislike of the Voith transmission.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Greater Manchester had some with Northern Counties bodies. A batch of these replaced the Metropolitans on the 400 Trans Lancs Express, they may have had Cummins or Rolls Royce engines.

GM's NC-bodied Metrobuses were somewhat later arrivals; 5201-10 were the Cummins engined ones and went to Tameside to cover the Trans-Lancs workings, taking over from Mk1 examples, 5301-5320 were Gardner engined and although fitted with high-backed seats tended to turn up on any service. The Cummins engine was a real boon on the 400 as it finally gave a drivers a chance to keep up (almost!) with other traffic on the numerous inclines on the route.

The standard Metrobuses (5001-5190) were allocated primarily to depots in the South and East areas, namely Altrincham (just the hydraulic-braked 5001-10), Birchfields Rd, Hyde Rd, Oldham, Princess Rd, Queens Rd (North area), Stockport and Tameside. As such Piccadilly Gardens was a real hotspot for the type though there were no specific services worked by them. An exception to this was Altrincham's fleet which was never common on its Manchester diagrams. It so happened that my last few unseen Metrobuses were all Altrincham based. I eventually discovered that they were regularly turned out on school runs serving Manchester High School for Girls, just off Wilmslow Road, and it was a real novelty to see 3 of the rarities in close order on the afternoon runs.

One distinctive feature of the the GM Metrobuses was the pronounced rattle from the engine bay when stationary but still in gear. This was due to the engine rocking just enough on its mounting for the casing to contact the engine bay cover ("bootlid"). I always took this to be a normal feature of the type until I made a few visits to London: LT Ms made no such sound. And the gearboxes were consistently smoother as well. I suspect the difference was down to maintenance regimes being more disciplined in London.

Overall I used to enjoy riding on them with the distinctive whine of the Voith gearbox and the air-suspension giving a vastly superior ride compared to a GM Standard (or Mancunian). But in hindsight they were clearly built on the cheap and I doubt any managers were sorry to see them go.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Overall I used to enjoy riding on them with the distinctive whine of the Voith gearbox and the air-suspension giving a vastly superior ride compared to a GM Standard (or Mancunian). But in hindsight they were clearly built on the cheap and I doubt any managers were sorry to see them go.

They were quite long-lived machines nonetheless.

@Geordie driver recounts his experience of the Arriva examples. I think there was some refurbishment programme in Arriva (somewhere in the South?) for a number that came out of London and were put into places like Surrey and Colchester to enable fully depreciated fleet to release newer stuff elsewhere; those examples were probably 1981-5 vintage so they were a minimum of 15 years old and many were older. IIRC, at least some of the ones went up to the North East and were converted there though.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

They were quite long-lived machines nonetheless.

@Geordie driver recounts his experience of the Arriva examples. I think there was some refurbishment programme in Arriva (somewhere in the South?) for a number that came out of London and were put into places like Surrey and Colchester to enable fully depreciated fleet to release newer stuff elsewhere; those examples were probably 1981-5 vintage so they were a minimum of 15 years old and many were older. IIRC, at least some of the ones went up to the North East and were converted there though.

A while back I had a look around the www for photos of GMT 5001-10 (new in late 1979) in their later lives. As non-standard vehicles GMT/GMbuses disposed of them at de-reg when they were barely 7 years old. IIRC they initially landed with LT but all eventually passed to other operators. In particular 5001/4/5/8 ended up with Arriva East Herts & Essex (via Lea Valley or County Bus) and at least 5005 received full corporate Arriva livery, with all 4 lasting until at least 1998/9. I also found a pic of 5002 still running for Cottrells as late as 2004. So yes the type certainly could be made to last with the right level of TLC. I think the problem with GM was being so heavily reliant on Atlanteans and Fleetlines that the Metrobuses were seen as odd men out: I sometimes wonder if they might have gone on rather longer had they been concentrated at just 2 or 3 depots.

 

[adrock1976]

When I relocated to Scotland in 1998, I recall that First Glasgow's Possilpark garage had some Metrobuses, which were mainly dedicated to the Inner Circle 89/90 at the time.

In August 2000 when Possilpark closed, they were transferred to Parkhead, still mainly on the 89/90 alongside with the Volvo Citybuses making an appearance (Possilpark also had Volvo Ailsas that appeared on the 89/90). The Metrobuses seemed to have disappeared in 2002 when Parkhead had a fleet of Optare Solo midibuses (not a minibus and not a single decker, somewhere in between size wise) that became a staple on the 89/90 for a good while.

 

[DunsBus]

The Northern ones were, I think, mainly Cummins L10 engined. The exceptions being the s*** off a shovel Expresslink ones, the Mk1s, and the first half batch of Mk2s where 3501-5 were Gardners and 3506-10 were Cummins. I think 3501-5 were originally at Chester le Street and 3506-10 at Murton but they were swapped over after a year or so as the Cummins were quicker and better suited to the cross Durham routes like the 722/723.

I think most of the PTEs took them, some as experimental (TWPTE) or in greater numbers. Oddly, Strathclyde, Merseyside and West Yorkshire took them, standardised on other models, and then took quite late batches again.

Northern's ones were in the main Gardner 6LXB-engined. The exceptions were 3506-10 (Cummins L10) and Expresslinks 3779-89 (Gardner 6LXDT). 3787 received a Volvo repower in 1998 which turned it into a complete oddball.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2021 ==

Indeed. The story goes (am open to correction here) that the Metrobus order in question was reduced from 50 to 25 and the simultaneous B10M Citybus order was increased from 70 to 95 to make up for the resulting shortfall. The F-plates in question were:

• F89-99 JYS (AH7-AH17)
• F790-795 LSU (AH18-AH23)

I believe this was indeed the case. The Metrobus order was reduced by half due to the uncertainty over MCW's future with the balance changed to Citybuses. Ironically some of these Citybuses had G-OGD registrations following on from the final Metrobus, MB70.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Northern's ones were in the main Gardner 6LXB-engined. The exceptions were 3506-10 (Cummins L10) and Expresslinks 3779-89 (Gardner 6LXDT). 3787 received a Volvo repower in 1998 which turned it into a complete oddball.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2021 ==

Actually, you may have mentioned that before. I always thought the C-OCN buses were Cummins especially as they were buying L10 Olympians by that stage