Varamis Rail Given Operators Licence from ORR

[Class15]

On the return trip, the train has only 6 minutes between passing Camden Junction and Willesden West London Junction !

Doesn’t need any more than that surely?

 

[The Planner]

On the return trip, the train has only 6 minutes between passing Camden Junction and Willesden West London Junction !

What is wrong with that? its about 4 miles?

 

[jagardner1984]

Does anyone have insight into or understand the logic of Liverpool Street as opposed to Euston which would presumably be more direct ? Or would NR veto on the basis of HS2 works in coming years ?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

What is wrong with that? its about 4 miles?

My apologies, I forgot about the shorter route via Primrose Hill. Was thinking in terms of the West Hampstead route that the London Overground trains use

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2024 ==

<post on Thursday 23rd auto-merged >
Varamis unit 321419 was stabled outside PRDC at Willesden yesterday afternoon
(image shows the refurbished unit in situ, with a northbound London Overground train heading towards Stonebridge Park in the background)

 

[LUYMun]

Looks like 321419 formed part of a move from Mossend to Birmingham International, then return to Rugby.

x.com

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It's daylight and we're at International. We aren't used to this but you'll have to wait a while to find out why.

Realtime Trains | 5Z01 1022 Mossend Down Yard to Birmingham International | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z01 1022 departure from Mossend Down Yard to Birmingham International on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z02 1710 Birmingham International to Rugby Depot Access Line | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z02 1710 departure from Birmingham International to Rugby Depot Access Line on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Class15]

The London trains haven’t really taken off. What’s gone wrong I wonder?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I don’t know, but there is an article in today’s Guardian that quotes a Royal Mail spokesman, saying that “it will decommission its remaining freight trains (the DB Cargo operated Class 325 units) by 10 October, with a plan to increase the amount of post it moves by road”

Curiously, the RM spokesperson is later quoted as stating “it was becoming difficult to secure parts for maintenance and, after reviewing plans to acquire new trains, it was decided that using other commercial rail services and increasing road deliveries was a better option”.

Varamis ???

 

[DBS92042]

I don’t know, but there is an article in today’s Guardian that quotes a Royal Mail spokesman, saying that “it will decommission its remaining freight trains (the DB Cargo operated Class 325 units) by 10 October, with a plan to increase the amount of post it moves by road”

Curiously, the RM spokesperson is later quoted as stating “it was becoming difficult to secure parts for maintenance and, after reviewing plans to acquire new trains, it was decided that using other commercial rail services and increasing road deliveries was a better option”.

Varamis ???

321407 has been at Willesden Railnet Sidings for about a month now, I wonder if that's down there for training purposes?

 

[_toommm_]

Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but Varamis now have a 9th unit, 321342, collected from Wolverton yesterday:

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[Class 170101]

Does anyone have insight into or understand the logic of Liverpool Street as opposed to Euston which would presumably be more direct ? Or would NR veto on the basis of HS2 works in coming years ?

Not insight perhaps but when Varamis did their Presentation at Liverpool Street their map inplied services from Liverpool Street to Norwich and Liverpool Street / Kings Cross to Kings Lynn (also Kings Cross to Scotland via ECML I think) rather than Liverpool Street to Scotland.

The video in question, map visible around 12:00 to 12:30

 

[ainsworth74]

Reopened for @XCTurbostar to ask a question.

 

[dk1]

Reopened for @XCTurbostar to ask a question.

The anticipation is getting too much

 

[ainsworth74]

The anticipation is getting too much

See this is the thing, when we re-open a thread like this there's always that awkward gap between us re-opening it and something actually happening that's worth looking at

Sadly on this occasion @XCTurbostar is really letting the side down by making it an extremely long gap!

 

[dk1]

See this is the thing, when we re-open a thread like this there's always that awkward gap between us re-opening it and something actually happening that's worth looking at

Sadly on this occasion @XCTurbostar is really letting the side down by making it an extremely long gap!

Haha yes. Especially as Varamis cropped up earlier in a conversation and I was looking up any recent news on the company. It all seems to have gone worryingly quiet.

 

[Class15]

For anyone interested in the recent updates, there is currently no shortage of discussion in this other thread:

Varamis Rail Class 321s & 325s”

Anybody know what's happened to Varamis Rail at the moment. They haven't ran for a day or two now.

www.railforums.co.uk

It is all really speculation at this stage though, but some of it is informed.

 

[Brickz]

Hmmm, journey time isn't much quicker than a truck would do it. There are a few parcel firms with depots near Mossend, but I do wonder how many parcels they're sending to Birmingham, and how many of them could / would want to commit that by 6pm. A lot of parcel trucks are loose loaded (parcels just stuffed in to the trailer, not on to roll cages) and they get to a depot, dump their outbound trailer and pick up their in-bound one. This proposal seems to be adding extra steps for not much benefit.

I'd love to see more parcel traffic on the railway (like the Royal Mail services from Shieldmuir) but not sure this is an operationally efficient option.

E.g. DPD have a depot in Eurocentral (so ten minute drive to Mossend), and one of their super hubs is in Hinkley (30 / 40 minutes from Birmingham). DPD are probably big enough to just buy some natural gas (maybe one day electric) trucks and remove any environmental arguments that the railway puts forward. Why would they look at this? Or who is the customer supposed to be?

Long story short, this feels like a solution looking for a problem.

The bigger heavier items get put onto pallets in the trailers so even if these type of things were to be transported via train it would free up alot of space for more parcels to be put in the trailers possibly reducing the amount of trailers needed to transport it all. It kind of depends if they using it for speed or to make it look like they are reducing their carbon footprint by reducing trucks driving on the road, also depending of the distance they trucks will be a double driver shift for example midlands to Cornwall and back in 1 shift takes 2 drivers

 

[XCTurbostar]

I’m sorry! I feel so bad letting you all down. I was going to ask if the proposals are still on track so to speak. The 8 321s are in a pretty bad state at PRDC!

The anticipation is getting too much

You gave me 12 minutes!

 

[John R]

I’m sorry! I feel so bad letting you all down. I was going to ask if the proposals are still on track so to speak. The 8 321s are in a pretty bad state at PRDC!


You gave me 12 minutes!

The other thread mentioned above suggests their next assignment will be conversion into razor blades sadly.

 

[sad1e]

From my photos the 321's in PRDC look to be in quite a poor state , i think these units will probably be the ones going for scrap if any do.


(Top image showing 321339, 321341, 321334 and 321440 )

(Bottom image showing 321407)

 

[MadMac]

View attachment 184396View attachment 184397
From my photos the 321's in PRDC look to be in quite a poor state , i think these units will probably be the ones going for scrap if any do.


(Top image showing 321339, 321341, 321334 and 321440 )

(Bottom image showing 321407)

For the benefit of the uninitiated, what’s PRDC?

 

[Darandio]

For the benefit of the uninitiated, what’s PRDC?

Princess Royal Distribution Centre, a Royal Mail hub.

 

[Mag_seven]

If anyone wants to speculate as to what may or should happen to the Varamis fleet then please use this thread:

What should happen to the Varamis Rail fleet?

mod note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/varamis-rail-given-operators-licence-from-orr.237159/ They look in perfect condition to be cascaded to ScotRail and marketed as “new trains”

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[dk1]

I’m sorry! I feel so bad letting you all down. I was going to ask if the proposals are still on track so to speak. The 8 321s are in a pretty bad state at PRDC!


You gave me 12 minutes!

So sorry I was intrigued.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

View attachment 184396View attachment 184397
From my photos the 321's in PRDC look to be in quite a poor state , i think these units will probably be the ones going for scrap if any do.


(Top image showing 321339, 321341, 321334 and 321440 )

(Bottom image showing 321407)

The top image is from a vantage point that shows the down platform at Harlesden station

 

[sad1e]

The top image is from a vantage point that shows the down platform at Harlesden station

I took that photo from Acton Lane Road bridge over the WCML , You would need a decent camera to get a shot of whatever is in the PRDC , I was just about able to pull that shot off with my camera's Lens at 300mm

 

[Randomer]

Can anybody find the actual prohibition notice issued to Veramis?

It seems the ORR Prohibition Notice Page hasn't been updated since 2023 and the Public Register doesn't seem to have it either.

At least some people appear to have read it or have details from it but I'm wondering if it is in the public domain.

Edited to add I don't think the site itself is no longer updated as improvement notices have been posted this year e.g. one sent to London Underground Limited in April 2025.

 

[Highview]

There is a press story about Varamis Rail in the Daily Telegraph, which seems to cover what has happened to them:

Access Restricted

An “environmentally sustainable” freight train company is on the brink of collapse because of high electricity prices.

Varamis Rail, which promotes itself as helping to “decarbonise” high-speed rail parcel deliveries using electric trains, has ceased all operations until mid-September.

One of its directors said the firm had been forced to stop paying staff, placing them on unpaid furlough instead, because it was struggling to break even.

Terry Livingstone, one of the company’s directors, said: “As a startup, we’re competing with road transport where all the costs and [profit] margins have been taken out already, so there’s very, very thin margins, and that’s what was difficult to compete with.”...

 

[Wyrleybart]

The mystery deepens then.
I thought I had seen some recent report about Varamis being in trouble financially, but would the company operations be "paused" until September when increased traffic might involve increased revenue ? If true, would Varamis have been able to stave off it's creditors, but remain solvent for the Autumn ?

 

[Suraggu]

The mystery deepens then.
I thought I had seen some recent report about Varamis being in trouble financially, but would the company operations be "paused" until September when increased traffic might involve increased revenue ? If true, would Varamis have been able to stave off it's creditors, but remain solvent for the Autumn ?

Press coverage and interviews are one thing, but then mentioning about staff being on unpaid furlough until at least September, possibly longer until they can fill a train with enough parcels to at least break even is something else to admit publicly.

Clearly all is not well within Varamis, what with the now cancelled scrap move to Newport Docks which is a quick way to get some what is much needed cash and that news article.

One wonders if they can hold off the creditors until September.

 

[swt_passenger]

There is a press story about Varamis Rail in the Daily Telegrapth which seems to cover what has happened to them. It may be behind a paywall so anyone with this access might wish to read and comment.

This has also been discussed in the Varamis thread here:

Varamis Rail 321s

It very much so is over for Varamis, paths to Newport just gone in. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K39994/2025-07-21/detailed Cancelled apperently

www.railforums.co.uk