Valley Lines electrification project...or not as may now be the case

[gareth950]

Why did you not feel safe on a 142? They are much safer than walking, cycling or going by car.

I didn't feel safe because it felt like it was going to leave the tracks. Jumping up and down, rocking from side to side. The panels in the gangway hammering together. If I hadn't been on a 10 minute journey I was considering getting off and waiting for another train.

Depends how tolerant you are of a journey like that I suppose.

 

[Olaf]

Thanks. While they haven't even selected a single option yet, it looks like they intend to do all the work in three years. Start on site Feb 2017 for completion Dec 2019. Hope is does turn out like that so the Wales & Borders franchise Pacers don't need to be given a derrogation to last into the early 2020s.

The only things you will now need to worry about are the cuts due to be implemented in 2015/2016, the potential collapse of the Euro, and the implosion of the Sovereign Debt markets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I didn't feel safe because it felt like it was going to leave the tracks. Jumping up and down, rocking from side to side. The panels in the gangway hammering together. If I hadn't been on a 10 minute journey I was considering getting off and waiting for another train.

Depends how tolerant you are of a journey like that I suppose.

They've always been like that, and I don't recall any derailments.

Neil

 

[Olaf]

I didn't feel safe because it felt like it was going to leave the tracks. Jumping up and down, rocking from side to side. The panels in the gangway hammering together. If I hadn't been on a 10 minute journey I was considering getting off and waiting for another train.

Depends how tolerant you are of a journey like that I suppose.

I guess you never had the chance to ride on the Waterloo &City line before they relaid the track a few years back; now that was fun.

 

[Gareth Marston]

They've always been like that, and I don't recall any derailments.

Neil

I don't think that's a game changer in peoples perception of them and willingness to use them where are alteranstives!

 

[anthony263]

Network Rail are supposed to be doing some major work on the bridge which carries the Valley lines over the SWML just outside Cardiff Central as they climb to Queen Street.

Another rumour doing the rounds as I think some on here will have heard already is that some class 165's could be coming to Wales on short term loan at some point in the future although I doubt this very much due to the guage issue's so more than likely perhaps we could see these displacing some fgw class 150's to south wales.

As for which Valley lines routes should be done first I think:

1.) Ebbw Vale & Maesteg.
2.) Vale Of Glamorgan including Penarth and Barry Island branches
3.) Cardiff Bay & Coryton
4.) Rhymney
5.) Cityline
6.) Treherbert
7.) Merthyr Tydfil & Aberdare

 

[The Planner]

I suspect it wont be done in such distinct chunks but I agree the VoG should be up at the top.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I suspect it wont be done in such distinct chunks but I agree the VoG should be up at the top.

The whining from some quarters that the head of the valleys towns haven't been done first will be immense.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The WG will want some quick wins.
Coryton, Bay, Penarth and Maesteg would get things off the ground quickest.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I agree the VoG should be up at the top.

For what reason? Assuming the current frequency cannot be maintained with all services from both directions terminating at Cardiff Central you wouldn't be able to make use of VOG wires until some of the heads of the valleys routes had been done. In contrast, phase 1 of the north-west (England) electrification has enabled electric Manchester-Scotland services.

How about:

1. Maesteg - Ebbw Vale
2. Bridgend - Rhymney via Barry
3. Barry Island - Caerphilly/Bargoed
4. Treherbert - Penarth
5. Aberdare - Queen Street - Central - Ninian Park - Radyr
6. Merthyr Tydfil - Pontypridd
7. Radyr - Coryton - Cardiff Bay (tram-train)

??

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The WG will want some quick wins ------- off the ground quickest.

And you can bet the farm on this one.

 

[krus_aragon]

The WG will want some quick wins.
Coryton, Bay, Penarth and Maesteg would get things off the ground quickest.

Why do Penarth so early when virtually all its services run through north of Cardiff? I'd second your other points, though (assuming you're including the City Line with Coryton).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Assuming the current frequency cannot be maintained with all services from both directions terminating at Cardiff Central you wouldn't be able to make use of VOG wires until some of the heads of the valleys routes had been done.

Is the VoG being done on the (earlier) SWML electrification project, as a diversionary route?

 

[anthony263]

That was the reason why I suggested the Vale Of Glamorgan be done as early as possible since it is a diversionary route when the line between Bridgend and Cardiff is shut.

Hopefully the relief lines between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Jct will be wired especially if in time the route to Gloucester is electrified and the WG does build some local stations between Cardiff and Newport

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any chance of seeing Porthcawl being once again rail-connected to the national network?

 

[edwin_m]

That was the reason why I suggested the Vale Of Glamorgan be done as early as possible since it is a diversionary route when the line between Bridgend and Cardiff is shut.

Hopefully the relief lines between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Jct will be wired especially if in time the route to Gloucester is electrified and the WG does build some local stations between Cardiff and Newport

Can't see VoG being done before the main line, simply because it is a diversionary route and it would be best not to be working on both at the same time.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why do Penarth so early when virtually all its services run through north of Cardiff? I'd second your other points, though (assuming you're including the City Line with Coryton).
Is the VoG being done on the (earlier) SWML electrification project, as a diversionary route?

I expect it will come down to technical aspects (power supplies etc) and a choice of service group.
Maybe Coryton-Central-Radyr as you say. A depot would have to be wired first, presumably Canton.
VoG might be a diversionary route but wouldn't be top of WG's priority list (beyond Barry/Island).
Maesteg is the easiest (short single track) and gets you EMUs running a fair distance along the main line.
Ebbw Vale is difficult to judge and is quite separate to the rest.
Pretty much everything else goes through Queen St which will have its own complications.

I'm pretty sure VoG won't be done as part of the main scheme, though I expect it will be well used during the main line wiring phase.
We still don't know the EMU plans between Bristol and Swansea, either.

 

[krus_aragon]

Any chance of seeing Porthcawl being once again rail-connected to the national network?

I expect it's in the same ballpark as reconnecting Amlwch.

 

[anthony263]

Any chance of seeing Porthcawl being once again rail-connected to the national network?

Something I would very much like to see again and certainly could bring a massive boost to the town which is fast becoming a commuter town for those working in Cardiff and Swansea especially thanks to the improved rail service from Pyle station.

That said some of the track bed has been filled in or built on so perhas the best hope of a railink would be light rail perhaps a shuttle between Porthcawl and Pyle.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Something I would very much like to see again and certainly could bring a massive boost to the town which is fast becoming a commuter town for those working in Cardiff and Swansea especially thanks to the improved rail service from Pyle station.

That said some of the track bed has been filled in or built on so perhas the best hope of a railink would be light rail perhaps a shuttle between Porthcawl and Pyle.

I think a dual carriageway has obliterated most of the Porthcawl route - and a housing estate has been built on the junction in Pyle. I don't know why it was shut in the first place.

Back to electrification, I read somewhere that the lower running costs will mean more investment in new routes, think it was SEWTA.

 

[Class 170101]

Clearly each part of the Valleys Electrification will be done in stages.
I would suggest that some of the current service groups may change in the interim from what they are today.

I believe I have asked this already but I don't think I have had a reply yet as to whether anyone knows whether the Vale of Glamorgan wiring will be paid for by the DfT (as a diversionary route) or the Welsh Assembly as part of the Valley Lines project.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Clearly each part of the Valleys Electrification will be done in stages.
I would suggest that some of the current service groups may change in the interim from what they are today.

I believe I have asked this already but I don't think I have had a reply yet as to whether anyone knows whether the Vale of Glamorgan wiring will be paid for by the DfT (as a diversionary route) or the Welsh Assembly as part of the Valley Lines project.

Network Rail certainly have plans to clear the route for IEP as the line from Port Talbot to Tondu and lower part of Maesteg branch. As Westminster is prt funding Valleys wires and the rest is being borrowed by NR and paid back by access charges from WG funding I suppose the answer is it's all in one big pot with no particular bit being the sole preserve of funding from either source.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Clearly each part of the Valleys Electrification will be done in stages.
I would suggest that some of the current service groups may change in the interim from what they are today.

I believe I have asked this already but I don't think I have had a reply yet as to whether anyone knows whether the Vale of Glamorgan wiring will be paid for by the DfT (as a diversionary route) or the Welsh Assembly as part of the Valley Lines project.

I think in project terms the VoG is not part of the main line work (HOPS etc).
That might change if the same contractor is used, but there's no clue about that.
The announcement said DfT would pay £105m for the Cardiff-Bridgend section, and give WG £125m as a contribution to the rest (under WG management).

 

[Envoy]

Surely, new stations should be built now - prior to wiring? I would nominate one on the Penarth branch at Cogan with a footpath to the bridge over the Ely. Such a station could be called "Cardiff Bay West". It is most unfortunate that a Tesco was built taking up land that would have been ideal for a P & R car park for such a station. A footway could also be built from the Cardiff bound platform at Cogan (Barry line) going through the arch & over the railways to reach the Pont-Y-Werin footbridge. As things stand, pedestrians are trying to cross the main road. (The underpass that existed under the mini roundabout was filled in with big blocks. Goodness knows whether it can be re-excavated to form a pedestrian link from Cogan station to the Bay). All bad planning!

A station should also be built at Hirwaun with the Aberdare service extended.

I doubt this will happen but it would be really great if the Rhymney line could be extended to Pant in order to link with the Brecon Mountain Railway. (Google Earth shows old trackbeds in this area though the Heads of the Valleys road now lives through them).

East of Cardiff, a new station should surely be built on the Relief lines at St.Mellons - along with car parking.

NW of Cardiff, the re-build of the single track line to Cregiau - which means bridging the M4 - should be a priority as applications are now coming in to build housing estates on the farmland running NW from Fairwater/ Pentrebane.

A line from Caerphilly to Newport via Machen would also be useful to many people in the Rhymney Valley.

 

[Rhydgaled]

A station should also be built at Hirwaun with the Aberdare service extended.

Where's your sense of ambition? Why stop at Hirwaun? Try to get to Glyn-Neath and have a tram-train connection from there into Swansea (unfortunately, if you tried to do it heavy rail you would have to terminate at a new 'Swansea Docks' station near one of the park and ride sites.)

 

[anthony263]

If a link to Beddau is opened my money would be for the cheaper option via Pontyclun especially since it would be easier to path electric trains on the SWML than diesel units.

As for new stations we are still waiting fro Brackla station to finally be constructed after how many years? anyway I would like to see station built at Ely Mill to be served by a half hourly service to/from Maesteg proving direct interchange with the cityline

 

[Rhydgaled]

If a link to Beddau is opened my money would be for the cheaper option via Pontyclun especially since it would be easier to path electric trains on the SWML than diesel units.

As for new stations we are still waiting fro Brackla station to finally be constructed after how many years? anyway I would like to see station built at Ely Mill to be served by a half hourly service to/from Maesteg proving direct interchange with the cityline

The Cardiff-Bridgend section does not seem to have the capacity for everything everyone wants to throw at it. For example, it doesn't make sense for the Swanline service to terminate at Port Talbot and not provide a through service to Cardiff, but Network Rail want that to happen if Maesteg trains run to Cardiff every half hour. If there were a branch off the GWML at Pontyclun, could the route be 4-tracked from there to Cardiff? Same for Brackla station, could it be used to provide a loop and overtaking opertunities for fast services? The other questions is could electric freight take a fast passenger path (Wikipedia says class 92s can do 87mph, but can they do that on a freight?) which could help capacity. Bridgend station itself is a capacity bottleneck which would be very hard to 4-track, personally I'd like to see a new double-track link built between Cardiff and Bridgend, effectively 4-tracking the GWML but with the fasts on a different, shorter, alignment. But is there any point in that if Bridgend station remains with just 2 through tracks?

 

[Envoy]

I bet that many would like to see a station at St.Fagans to serve the Castle/Museum. This could be done by placing a loop off the main line onto the bed of the old line that ran up to the Drope viaduct line = now A4232. (A confusing array of buses run to St.Fagans from the city centre with some going to the car park whilst others go to the church. It is a pity that all don't just serve the entrance by the church and save all the confusion as well as the difficult hill). Anyway, due to being on the mainline, it is unlikely that capacity will be found for such a stop.

I do not think that it is a good idea for Network Rail to suggest that Swanline services terminate at Port Talbot. If they could find the capacity to get them to Bridgend, I would like to see them then go to Cardiff via Llantwit Major & Rhoose (for the Airport - if it still exists)! Thus we would have a direct service from Swansea to Barry as well as helping connectivity to Cardiff Airport). Passengers from Swanline stations such as Llansamlet & Baglan could get off at Bridgend to be picked up by an express for Cardiff & points east.

Being so near to Cardiff Central, it would not make sense to have a main line stop at Ely Mill site. However, a new station on the City Line at this location is proposed.

I think that more should be done to market the City Line for cross Cardiff journeys. Perhaps a big poster with a diagrammatic map could be produced? I wonder how much effort is made to get people to use these services? Of course, the trouble is that they are only very 30 minutes which means that many use the buses - despite getting caught in traffic. Then, we have the over 60's on the buses because they get free travel and thus deprive the railways of off peak income - when plenty of spare capacity is usually available. The Welsh Government have to pay a subsidy to ATW for running un-economic services because they are funding the free bus travel for the over 60's!

 

[Rhydgaled]

I do not think that it is a good idea for Network Rail to suggest that Swanline services terminate at Port Talbot. If they could find the capacity to get them to Bridgend, I would like to see them then go to Cardiff via Llantwit Major & Rhoose (for the Airport - if it still exists)! Thus we would have a direct service from Swansea to Barry as well as helping connectivity to Cardiff Airport). Passengers from Swanline stations such as Llansamlet & Baglan could get off at Bridgend to be picked up by an express for Cardiff & points east.

I quite like that idea of sending the Swanlines via the VOG line actually. I once (on this forum, probably) suggested doing that with the second train per hour from Maesteg instead but I'm afraid that Bridgend station itself put paid to the idea (services in both directions using the VOG line have to use the same platform. Also, the west-facing bay at Bridgend is only accessible from the Maesteg branch so the Swanlines can't terminate there, leaving running them through to Cardiff via the main line as the only option to maintain calls at Pyle without slowing the fast services.

Not sure the Rhoose-Airport bus still exists though.

I think that more should be done to market the City Line for cross Cardiff journeys. Perhaps a big poster with a diagrammatic map could be produced?

There are quite a few such maps of the ValleyLines I think, this being one, but I've never noticed any on posters at Cardiff Central (or anywhere else, but I've not really visited many other stations in the area).

 

[Envoy]

Yes, a bus service run by NAT still links Rhoose station with the Airport terminal. Passengers must now pay £1 each way for the trip. It remains the quickest way by public transport to/from get from the Airport to Bridgend & points west. Unfortunately, no clear signs appear by the level crossing at Rhoose station telling travellers which side of the line they need to go for Bridgend & points west / Barry, Cardiff & the east.

Last time I checked the Airport, no clear signs marked which bus stop served the different services. A bus arrived marked 'Shuttle'. I said to the driver "What Shuttle are you? The one to Cardiff or the one to Rhoose station"? He said, "neither, I am the car park shuttle". No wonder this airport is going bust!

Regarding the City Line, I don't think that ATW even produce a mini printed timetable of the entire route. Surely, they should be targeting employers near the line to encourage cross city travel? The Inland Revenue at Llanishen comes to mind along with Cantonian & The Bishop of Llandaff High Schools. Heath Hospital generates huge amounts of traffic. Unfortunately, no shuttle bus links Heath Halt with the Hospital and many won't make the 20 minute walk - especially in winter.

 

[anthony263]

2Travel used to run two circular services from Heath Hospital to the surrounding area's which also passed Heath High Level station providing direct links to the Heath Hospital.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The SEWTA rail stratey published in 2013 stated that it would be possible to run at least 3tph from Swansea to Cardiff in addition to the 2tph from Beddau and Maesteg although using dmus would mean 1tph from Maesteg would have to run non stop between Cardiff and Bridgend.

The main issue does seem to be the freight services particulary along the stretch between Bridgend and Cardiff this could be sorted somewhat by routing more via the Vale of glamorgan etc.

SEWTA do claim in the study that another problem is due to the number of trains reversing at Cardiff Central however electrifiction could mean some of these services being linked to provide cross city connections.