Validity of Off-Peak Timing Starting Journey from Intermediate Station

[Randomer]

Hello all,

A brief question involving use of an Off-Peak (in this case validity B1 Not valid on trains timed to depart after 0429 and before 0930) ticket starting a journey from an intermediate station.

Essentially, I wish to travel from station B - C it is cheaper to buy a ticket from station A - B - C to take advantage of a different TOC setting the price of this ticket to be cheaper than the B - C journey. As I understand this would be valid under Section 16.4 of the NRCOT:

(Generally, you may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction
in the case of a return Ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the
Ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use.

However, my question falls in the area of the time restriction of the ticket. From my reading of the conditions as long as the train I travel on starts the journey from station B after 0930 then the ticket is valid, which I then did. On trying to carry out the journey last week the conductor of the service was of the opinion that the ticket may not be valid due to the train I am starting the journey on having passed through the station A before 0930?

To be completely fair to the conductor he also was quite honest about not being sure; didn't try to excess, penalty fair or TIR me and stated politely he would check with his TOC before taking any other action. In most cases a change of service at station B is necessary to complete the A-B-C journey so being on one of the few services to travel A-B-C direct seems to have been the issue.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Does the ticket specifically allow a break of journey on the outbound? It will show up on BR Fares.

If you can't break the journey, you can't start short. The ticket would be valid from A-C without the break that would allow you to join at B.

Also, if this a Day Return, I'm assuming that it would not be possible to arrive at B from A within the restrictions on the outbound. I can't see how this journey would be valid.

 

[Randomer]

Does the ticket specifically allow a break of journey on the outbound? It will show up on BR Fares.

Yes, Off Peak Day Return allowing Break of Journey on both legs on BRFares. It is restriction B1 with no other specific restrictions shown.

All the services from A-C stop at B. With some terminating at B or travelling a different route requiring a change of service. So a break of journey would be valid as far as I can see.

Also, if this a Day Return, I'm assuming that it would not be possible to arrive at B from A within the restrictions on the outbound. I can't see how this journey would be valid.

I think this is essentially the heart of the question. Is the back calculation of when the ticket could have been valid from necessary? If the restriction is taken as read starting the journey after 0930 from an intermediate station would seem to satisfy the restriction.

If not taken literally it would seem to bring up all kinds of questions in terms of when the ticket becomes valid e.g. is it the journey time of the first train to visit station A after 0930 reaching B or the train in particular you are joining if it is overtaken?

 

[Randomer]

Does the ticket specifically allow a break of journey on the outbound? It will show up on BR Fares.

An off Peak Day Return with validity code B2 with no further restrictions. Allowing a break of journey on both outbound and return legs.

Also, if this a Day Return, I'm assuming that it would not be possible to arrive at B from A within the restrictions on the outbound.

I think this is the heart of the question. Is the back calculation necessary for the train you are on vs. the train you could have caught from station A?

Or is it purely based on when the train is timed to depart the intermediate station? Effectively whether the train you are currently on is valid after 0930 having commenced from an intermediate station?

It might well be I was completely in the wrong but it does seem strange the conductor seemed so unsure if it was a cut and dry situation (he also didn't ask for name address etc. so not worried about getting a cheeky demand letter from them either).

 

[Puffing Devil]

My view is that you're trying to exploit a loophole that can easily be closed if pushed - it's a small matter to change your ticket to deny a break of journey.

The NRCOT also predicates the comment with "generally" - such a loophole as this is not a "generally". Start, stop and resume is very much a feature of unrestricted tickets.