Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[VauxhallandI]

There's a difference between attending a meeting and observing it as a member of the public - having a meeting streamed or broadcast, and knowing that one may be seen, is a salutary experience.


The church is by no means the biggest business of all, and affording it was a stretch. Without veering off topic, you need to bear in mind that the asset value of the church includes the valuations of things like the buildings - in my area, donations are ~£3m/year short of funding what the church does already.

They could sell off some of the more empty ones.

Anyway back on topic - I think we should be going all out to encourage people out of their homes now. Maybe some remote access facilities could be offered in time but for now we need to reverse the propaganda and get people on their feet.

 

[35B]

They could sell off some of the more empty ones.

Anyway back on topic - I think we should be going all out to encourage people out of their homes now. Maybe some remote access facilities could be offered in time but for now we need to reverse the propaganda and get people on their feet.

I think little encouragement will be needed, once there’s a view that things are safe. Taking church as my example, there are very few avoiding services now.

 

[Darandio]

Yep but the assertion by @Darandio was that those people are in hospital because they've chosen not to be vaccinated. There could well be people in hospital who got a 1st vaccine as soon as they were offered it and are still waiting to be offered a 2nd.

Not my assertion, it was Matt Hancock last Wednesday.

24 is the Wednesday figure as there's a delay in the reporting. (You seem to have found an extra person?)

I haven't found anyone. Again, it was Matt Hancock last Wednesday.

 

[30907]

I think little encouragement will be needed, once there’s a view that things are safe. Taking church as my example, there are very few avoiding services now.

Yes, it has noticeably changed in ours in the last couple of weeks as people have got vaccinated - but lockdown has also revealed a considerable number of people who couldn't access worship (etc) in person and have enormously appreciated the new online opportunities from "their" church, and my impression is that many churches will continue offer livestream if they can afford the resources (equipment and people).

 

[kristiang85]

According to the Telegraph, being fully vaccinated won't mean an end to self isolation for 10 days if you are a COVID contact.

So what's the bleeding point then? Isn't this just going to put people off getting the vaccine?

 

[Snow1964]

Interestingly NHS vaccine seems to have changed tack, and is now offering chance to bring second jabs forward, both myself and my wife had texts about it on Sunday.

However as we both have slots (at same time and location) booked for 10 days time, we haven’t bothered to change them, especially as for first jabs booking was at least 6 days wait.

If we had been bringing second jab 2 or 3 weeks earlier, then probably would have done it.

Wonder if they have lots of spare slots in some areas so trying to get people done quicker now now that the vaccine supply is not tight like it was in April.

 

[DelayRepay]

I've just been able to bring my second jab forward, it was at the end of July (12 weeks) but I've moved it to early in July (8 weeks). I've also been able to move it to a closer location. This works out well for me as I am going on holiday at the end of July so any side effects should be long gone by then, and I'll have my second dose protection.

 

[birchesgreen]

My second jab is tomorrow, 10 weeks after my first though my GP texted me over a week ago so I could have had it last week if I wanted.

 

[Bantamzen]

According to the Telegraph, being fully vaccinated won't mean an end to self isolation for 10 days if you are a COVID contact.

So what's the bleeding point then? Isn't this just going to put people off getting the vaccine?

You do have to wonder. After all the positivity about our vaccination programme, I can honestly see it running into trouble if these double standards are continued much longer. The "experts" risk undermining the vaccination programme by making it sound useless.

 

[DelayRepay]

According to the Telegraph, being fully vaccinated won't mean an end to self isolation for 10 days if you are a COVID contact.

So what's the bleeding point then? Isn't this just going to put people off getting the vaccine?

I think if someone has symptoms, or is confirmed as being infected, then they should isolate regardless of their vaccine status.

But I don't think isolating because of being a close contact is necessary really. The risk of you having Covid is reduced by your vaccine and the risk of passing it onto a vulnerable person is reduced by their vaccine.

 

[big_rig]

You do have to wonder. After all the positivity about our vaccination programme, I can honestly see it running into trouble if these double standards are continued much longer. The "experts" risk undermining the vaccination programme by making it sound useless.

The "experts" are basically anti-vaxxers by a different name now. When the rubber hits the road they evidently don't have the confidence in the product to allow for the release of restrictions. Same with masks - e.g why can somebody returning from an amber list country not go for a walk outside at 1AM wearing a mask? Because the 'experts' don't really believe in them. Easy to prescribe, but difficult to actually believe in enough to let people do things. Public opinion is obviously very different when it comes to the vaccines as opposed to the small group of freaks obsessed with getting in the news (Independent Sage, etc) and I would argue much more rational - it is up to Government to see sense here.

 

[peters]

I think little encouragement will be needed, once there’s a view that things are safe. Taking church as my example, there are very few avoiding services now.

Presumably either your church had a low attendance (in relation to the size of the church) pre-COVID or they have put on additional services, as churches aren't permitted to use their full capacity.

According to the Telegraph, being fully vaccinated won't mean an end to self isolation for 10 days if you are a COVID contact.

So what's the bleeding point then? Isn't this just going to put people off getting the vaccine?

The point of any vaccine is to try and prevent you from getting a serious illness.

Same with masks - e.g why can somebody returning from an amber list country not go for a walk outside at 1AM wearing a mask?

I presume you said 1am because you think not many people will be out at that time. Remember when the supermarkets said to shop at quiet times when possible and it then resulted in 10-11am on Sundays being the busiest time of the week for supermarkets?

 

[kristiang85]

The point of any vaccine is to try and prevent you from getting a serious illness.

Yes, but the government is trying to persuade people who likely won't get a serious illness to get it too. By saying things like they will still need to isloate from just having contact, that isn't going to persuade people to get it.

And if our relaxations are dependent on high vaccine uptake (which I think is wrong anyway; it should be health stats alone), this is a problem.

 

[peters]

Yes, but the government is trying to persuade people who likely won't get a serious illness to get it too.

As I said in an earlier post it would be nice and simple if only people over a certain age or with certain health conditions could get a serious illness from the virus. However, there have been young people without diagnosed health conditions who have got seriously ill from it. I have an underlying medical condition but not one that qualified me for early vaccination. Regardless of that I want to do everything I can to avoid getting nasty illnesses as I found having flu at the same time as having my existing underlying medical condition was very unpleasant.

 

[kristiang85]

As I said in an earlier post it would be nice and simple if only people over a certain age or with certain health conditions could get a serious illness from the virus. However, there have been young people without diagnosed health conditions who have got seriously ill from it. I have an underlying medical condition but not one that qualified me for early vaccination. Regardless of that I want to do everything I can to avoid getting nasty illnesses as I found having flu at the same time as having my existing underlying medical condition was very unpleasant.

Yes but most people know that they have underlying conditions. My point is that, once vaccinated, your chances of developing serious COVID symptoms are miniscule. Thus a simple contact should not be necessary for you to have to isolate for 10 days. As you say, you've had bad effects from flu, so you've generally made extra precautions during flu seasons with that knowledge. It's basic common sense. Mandating that people isolate due to possibly having contact is madness, for their mental health and for the economy in general.

The best chances we have as a nation against this are for high vaccine uptake, and healthy younger people are less likely to bother if it's not going to change these rules for them.

 

[Bantamzen]

As I said in an earlier post it would be nice and simple if only people over a certain age or with certain health conditions could get a serious illness from the virus. However, there have been young people without diagnosed health conditions who have got seriously ill from it. I have an underlying medical condition but not one that qualified me for early vaccination. Regardless of that I want to do everything I can to avoid getting nasty illnesses as I found having flu at the same time as having my existing underlying medical condition was very unpleasant.

Younger people do sometimes have underlying conditions, and as @kristiang85 says most will know it. And I don't want to belittle yours or others people's potential conditions, but it really is up to those individuals, their medical professionals, family etc to understand and mitigate for any risk. Nobody can expect the rest of society to curtail their lives for the extraordinarily small risk that they might come into contact with, and infect someone at greater risk. Its just not feasible.

There will of course be some people unaware of their risk, and speaking as someone who lost his sister to just such a situation following her having had flu I would still not expect anyone to do what we have been asked to do for the last 14 months.

 

[peters]

As you say, you've had bad effects from flu, so you've generally made extra precautions during flu seasons with that knowledge.

Not quite. I don't think the effects I've had from flu are worst than most others have got, it was bad enough for me to be too ill for work but not so ill I had to spend the whole time in bed. The problem I had was having those symptoms at the same time as different symptoms of another underlying health condition making things worse than if it had just been flu. Think of it like you have the flu virus and then you get a stomach bug before you get rid of the flu, getting the second illness isn't going to make a cough worse, or make your sinus more blocked but it will make you feel even less well with a longer list of symptoms.

The best chances we have as a nation against this are for high vaccine uptake, and healthy younger people are less likely to bother if it's not going to change these rules for them.

The carrot on the end of a stick for young healthy people could be foreign holidays, with the EU saying vaccinated people from 'third countries' will be allowed to take holidays in the EU. PCR tests can cost around £100 a time, so a free vaccine to avoid those is a big financial incentive. However, you could say the UK government have bitten some of that carrot off the stick by currently requiring those returning from 'green countries' to take a test!

 

[35B]

Presumably either your church had a low attendance (in relation to the size of the church) pre-COVID or they have put on additional services, as churches aren't permitted to use their full capacity.

We do have significant “spare” capacity, yes - the building is usually only truly full at Remembrance and for the Christingle service. And that does make implementing distancing much easier while allowing a more “normal” sized congregation.

 

[AlterEgo]

The first vaccine recipient, William Shakespeare, is reported to have died today of an unrelated illness.

 

[Bantamzen]

The first vaccine recipient, William Shakespeare, is reported to have died today of an unrelated illness.

Although the BBC were very careful not to make this clear. Very disrespectful in my opinion.

 

[Ediswan]

Although the BBC were very careful not to make this clear. Very disrespectful in my opinion.

The first sentence of the BBC article is:

The second person in the world to get the Pfizer-BioNTech jab has died of an unrelated illness.

 

[35B]

The first sentence of the BBC article is:

The trouble is, others will leap onto this to try to suggest causation - rather than the basic reality that an 81 year old whose already hospitalised may not live as long after vaccination as some.

 

[peters]

The trouble is, others will leap onto this to try to suggest causation - rather than the basic reality that an 81 year old whose already hospitalised may not live as long after vaccination as some.

Yep. The first batch of Pfizer vaccines were administered to those over 80 already in a specific hospital or who were already due to attend that hospital for an outpatient appointment. To be honest his death isn't really a national news story.

Captain Tom Moore died of COVID after being told he couldn't have the vaccine.

 

[roversfan2001]

Captain Tom Moore died with COVID after being told he couldn't have the vaccine.

Corrected that for you.

 

[nlogax]

Just had my second and final AZ jab done. Or will there be three...four... five?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Corrected that for you.

Exactly

 

[johncrossley]

Interestingly NHS vaccine seems to have changed tack, and is now offering chance to bring second jabs forward, both myself and my wife had texts about it on Sunday.

I didn't have any such text, yet thanks for the tip. I'm 46 so there has been no advertisement about getting the second jab after 8 weeks instead of 12, but I thought I would try and cancel the original appointment and rebook anyway. I now have an appointment 8 weeks after my first jab.

 

[MDB1images]

24 currently in hospital in Bolton with COVID, compared to 12 a week ago is a 100% increase week on week. If that trend continues it would be extremely worrying, even if 24 is a number the local NHS can manage. The last time Bolton hospital had a figure in the mid 20s was in mid September 2020, around the time the government was thinking about a further lockdown in October, only to then put it off and to then do it in November instead.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nhstrust&areaName=Bolton%20NHS%20Foundation%20Trust

Local media reporting the figure now at 41 in Bolton Hospital with COVID.

 

[Snow1964]

Anyone now 30 and up can book first jab on NHS vaccines site (if not already called by GP)

Second jabs can now be amended and brought forward to nearer 8 weeks by logging back on and manage your booking for anyone 50

 

[Mintona]

Thanks for the update. I checked this morning and it still said 32 but see it has changed to 30 now. I can get involved.

Not that I am overly enthusiastic to do so.