Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[TravelDream]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the view of most people that they take the jab for their own benefit. I don't know anyone who's had it for 'The Greater Good'.

This is definitely true.

When I had my first shot, it was definitely with potential 'vaccine passports' in mind. It's not only personal though. I worry a lot for my grandparents who are all in the 'at risk' age group.

They weren''t the sole reasons though. I'd like society in general to get back to normal as quickly as possible, and I think a high take-up makes that more likely. That's at least partly altruistic in my opinion.

 

[Lampshade]

It seems that you don't want the jab for the common good of the population but to enable YOU to go abroad

Probably the majority view in all fairness, especially in younger age groups.

 

[The Ham]

Probably the majority view in all fairness, especially in younger age groups.

I would suggest that most people do it for their own good (whatever that is, be that to travel, to ensure that they don't take time off work and the potential loss of income that may cause then, that they don't want to harm people that they love, that they want their job back and ending lockdown is a prerequisite of that), for the greater good is probably very few and many of the reasons which could be listed as that could also be listed as for personal benefit too.

 

[Freightmaster]

It seems that you don't want the jab for the common good of the population but to enable YOU to go abroad

You mean just like the vast majority of other vaccinations that adults have (other than the flu jab)??


Seriously, before Covid came along 90% of the population wouldn't consider going out of their way to
do anything "for the greater good" of society unless it was also of direct, tangible benefit to themselves,
but now there are seemingly millions of under 40s who are absolutely desperate to get jabbed up even
though they are at absolutely no personal risk from the virus whatsoever...

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing - I'm just astounded that decades of selfishness and lack of
responsibility/empathy for others can apparently be magically reversed by nothing more than a bit of
obviously stage-managed fearmongering by the government/media.

Are people really that emotionally malleable?




MARK

 

[Bantamzen]

It seems that you don't want the jab for the common good of the population but to enable YOU to go abroad

So what? Do you only ever do things for the good of others?

 

[DelayRepay]

They weren''t the sole reasons though. I'd like society in general to get back to normal as quickly as possible, and I think a high take-up makes that more likely. That's at least partly altruistic in my opinion.

That's one of the reasons I had my jab - one of the roadmap tests is whether the vaccination programme is successful. Every person who has a jab helps to support that. But I'm doing it because I hate the world of restrictions, not for anyone else's benefit.

As others have said there are also benefits for international travel. I also thought there might be benefits for attending events such as concerts. Whilst the press are now suggesting vaccine certification won't be used for domestic events, I suspect a lot have already had their jabs for that reason, so it's done its job without there being a political and civil liberties battle.

 

[Philip]

You mean just like the vast majority of other vaccinations that adults have (other than the flu jab)??


Seriously, before Covid came along 90% of the population wouldn't consider going out of their way to
do anything "for the greater good" of society unless it was also of direct, tangible benefit to themselves,
but now there are seemingly millions of under 40s who are absolutely desperate to get jabbed up even
though they are at absolutely no personal risk from the virus whatsoever...

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing - I'm just astounded that decades of selfishness and lack of
responsibility/empathy for others can apparently be magically reversed by nothing more than a bit of
obviously stage-managed fearmongering by the government/media.

Are people really that emotionally malleable?




MARK

I think to describe it as decades of selfishness and lack of responsibility isn't quite accurate. You could point the finger at Margaret Thatcher or at the 1960s revolution as two possible causes, but I would say there is more of a selfish/lack of responsibility attitude in general now than there was only 20 years ago.

However I think for many (including younger people) it is a combination of wanting to make sure they don't get badly affected by vaccine passports, and also for altruistic reasons; to help with the fight to get back to normal and to protect others. It isn't black and white.

 

[Simon11]

I'm 30 so can now book my jab. Not that I particularly want one after the side effects a 40 year old colleague had to his jab last week. He was fine initially but essentially his muscles seized up and he felt very cold. He had to take nearly 2 days off work, coming online for a short period in the afternoon on the 2nd day before going back to bed to try and recover. The primary reason I will have the jab is so I can go abroad. I have a foreign holiday planned for later in the year and I don't what to be denied travel or entry to that country, in mainland Europe, due to not been vaccinated.

Thats surely better than catching covid and having a whole week of side effects, plus 10 days isolating requirements?

I had a whole week of side affects after getting covid and would have much preferred two days!

 

[LowLevel]

I'm 30 so can now book my jab. Not that I particularly want one after the side effects a 40 year old colleague had to his jab last week. He was fine initially but essentially his muscles seized up and he felt very cold. He had to take nearly 2 days off work, coming online for a short period in the afternoon on the 2nd day before going back to bed to try and recover. The primary reason I will have the jab is so I can go abroad. I have a foreign holiday planned for later in the year and I don't what to be denied travel or entry to that country, in mainland Europe, due to not been vaccinated.

I had my Pfizer vaccine 2 days ago (I'm in my 30s) and bar a sore arm and maybe feeling a little tired (hard to tell as a shift worker!) I've had no real issues.

 

[matt]

I had my Pfizer vaccine 2 days ago (I'm in my 30s) and bar a sore arm and maybe feeling a little tired (hard to tell as a shift worker!) I've had no real issues.

Same here, other than a sore arm I was fine.

 

[Simon11]

Same here, other than a sore arm I was fine.

And same here. Just a sore arm after getting it last Friday when I had it and nothing else.

 

[TravelDream]

I had my Pfizer vaccine 2 days ago (I'm in my 30s) and bar a sore arm and maybe feeling a little tired (hard to tell as a shift worker!) I've had no real issues.

I had it week or so ago and felt absolutely fine. Perhaps the tiniest ache in my arm when moving it, but otherwise nothing at all.

 

[nlogax]

It seems that you don't want the jab for the common good of the population but to enable YOU to go abroad

And..?

 

[Lampshade]

Same here, other than a sore arm I was fine.

My arm wasn’t even that sore, a little heavy though, like I was carrying a bag of shopping.

 

[kristiang85]

It seems that you don't want the jab for the common good of the population but to enable YOU to go abroad

Yes and so did I. I have almost zero risk of dying from COVID, and I have the common sense and ability to seat at home if I ever did get symptoms, but I've had the jab so reduce the risk of hassle later in the year when I travel.

I do feel it's a bit wrong though as I feel its much better we sent these jabs to vulnerable people in developing countries who need it far more than me. But that's the cards we've been dealt with...

 

[3rd rail land]

Thats surely better than catching covid and having a whole week of side effects, plus 10 days isolating requirements?

I had a whole week of side affects after getting covid and would have much preferred two days!

He was well enough to work after 2 days off but he wasn't feeling his usual self when he returned to work. I do understand the side effects can vary quite a bit from person to person.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm 30 so can now book my jab. Not that I particularly want one after the side effects a 40 year old colleague had to his jab last week. He was fine initially but essentially his muscles seized up and he felt very cold. He had to take nearly 2 days off work, coming online for a short period in the afternoon on the 2nd day before going back to bed to try and recover. The primary reason I will have the jab is so I can go abroad. I have a foreign holiday planned for later in the year and I don't what to be denied travel or entry to that country, in mainland Europe, due to not been vaccinated.

To be fair, such side effects are pretty damn rare. Most people I know just got a sore arm, or at worse felt something similar to a hangover the morning after.

 

[DelayRepay]

To be fair, such side effects are pretty damn rare. Most people I know just got a sore arm, or at worse felt something similar to a hangover the morning after.

With the A vaccine it felt like a bad hangover but lasted three days! AZ seems to have worse side effects in younger people, but of course anyone under 40 who's getting a first dose now won't get AZ.

It is quite amusing because all the older people in my team had their jab during the day and went straight back to work. As us young(ish) 'uns had it, we all had 2 - 3 days of virtually no work.

 

[TravelDream]

Side effects more likely with Oxford/AZ than Pfizer and more likely among women than men.
That's according to a UK study anyway published in The Lancet - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

These are the numbers for the first dose:
AstraZeneca - 39.3% for women and 26.2% for men.
Pfizer - 16.2% for women and 9.3% for men.

The number studied after a second dose was tiny and was only for Pfizer, but indicated more side effects after the second dose.

 

[Yew]

It seems that you don't want the jab for the common good of the population but to enable YOU to go abroad

It's not that long ago that the head of the vaccine task-force said that vaccinating everyone "was not going to happen". Given that we don't require such high coverage for any other respiriatory illness; the idea that it is necessary for the 'common good' is perhaps better described as 'reassuring hypochondriacs'

And that's before we consider that we're leaving vulnerable in other countries unvaccinated, whilst we vaccinate those at low risk; who cares about saving lives and not squandering humanities limited vaccine supplies, when there are political points to be scored.

 

[Djgr]

Side effects more likely with Oxford/AZ than Pfizer and more likely among women than men.
That's according to a UK study anyway published in The Lancet - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

These are the numbers for the first dose:
AstraZeneca - 39.3% for women and 26.2% for men.
Pfizer - 16.2% for women and 9.3% for men.

The number studied after a second dose was tiny and was only for Pfizer, but indicated more side effects after the second dose.

It should be pointed out that the vast proportion of the side effects identified in this study were trivial.

 

[35B]

It's not that long ago that the head of the vaccine task-force said that vaccinating everyone "was not going to happen". Given that we don't require such high coverage for any other respiriatory illness; the idea that it is necessary for the 'common good' is perhaps better described as 'reassuring hypochondriacs'

And that's before we consider that we're leaving vulnerable in other countries unvaccinated, whilst we vaccinate those at low risk; who cares about saving lives and not squandering humanities limited vaccine supplies, when there are political points to be scored.

The trouble is, Covid isn't a respiratory illness - it's disease that transmits like a respiratory illness but with many major effects elsewhere.

As for how we vaccinate, I'd rather we started by doing somewhere thoroughly (not just because somewhere happens to be here, though that's a benefit), and then moved on, rather than following the fallacy that we can o everything and everyone in strict order of risk.

 

[WelshBluebird]

With the A vaccine it felt like a bad hangover but lasted three days! AZ seems to have worse side effects in younger people, but of course anyone under 40 who's getting a first dose now won't get AZ.

It is quite amusing because all the older people in my team had their jab during the day and went straight back to work. As us young(ish) 'uns had it, we all had 2 - 3 days of virtually no work.

I'm 31 and had the AZ jab about a month ago. I struggled to sleep that night, felt hungover in the morning, was still ok to work though and felt totally normal by the time evening came around.

Side effects more likely with Oxford/AZ than Pfizer and more likely among women than men.
That's according to a UK study anyway published in The Lancet - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

These are the numbers for the first dose:
AstraZeneca - 39.3% for women and 26.2% for men.
Pfizer - 16.2% for women and 9.3% for men.

The number studied after a second dose was tiny and was only for Pfizer, but indicated more side effects after the second dose.

Worth saying those numbers include very minor side effects like headaches or an achy / itchy arm.

 

[Richard Scott]

The trouble is, Covid isn't a respiratory illness - it's disease that transmits like a respiratory illness but with many major effects elsewhere.

As for how we vaccinate, I'd rather we started by doing somewhere thoroughly (not just because somewhere happens to be here, though that's a benefit), and then moved on, rather than following the fallacy that we can o everything and everyone in strict order of risk.

But in very few people, too many clutching at straws like this as evidence for continual restrictions. I've had one vaccination and second be due soon so I'll take my chances now, thanks.

 

[takno]

It should be pointed out that the vast proportion of the side effects identified in this study were trivial.

It should also be pointed out that this study ended in March, and as a result the average age of participants in the study was 61. Even with the study, the percentage of people with side effects was twice as high in the participants under 55 than it was to the over 55s, with a strong indication that side effects correlate with a stronger existing immune response.

It's entirely believable based on this that the 40-49 age group who have been getting the jab recently have been suffering much more common and severe side effects than the participants in the study.

 

[35B]

But in very few people, too many clutching at straws like this as evidence for continual restrictions. I've had one vaccination and second be due soon so I'll take my chances now, thanks.

Very few being enough to kill many thousands, and bring many countries to a halt, from a standing start. God help us if this were a dangerous virus that killed a significant proportion of those infected.

 

[Djgr]

It should also be pointed out that this study ended in March, and as a result the average age of participants in the study was 61. Even with the study, the percentage of people with side effects was twice as high in the participants under 55 than it was to the over 55s, with a strong indication that side effects correlate with a stronger existing immune response.

It's entirely believable based on this that the 40-49 age group who have been getting the jab recently have been suffering much more common and severe side effects than the participants in the study.

I'm not sure what point you are making. Unhelpful scaremongering?

 

[TravelDream]

It should be pointed out that the vast proportion of the side effects identified in this study were trivial.

I thought that was a given. My mistake.

Serious reactions were exceptionally rare.

 

[Richard Scott]

Very few being enough to kill many thousands, and bring many countries to a halt, from a standing start. God help us if this were a dangerous virus that killed a significant proportion of those infected.

But not now we have a vaccination, I'm talking about now not 12 months ago.

 

[takno]

I'm not sure what point you are making. Unhelpful scaremongering?

What a weirdly unpleasant reply. I'm just pointing out that the headline stats from that paper are largely meaningless. I thought we were discussing side effects, which absolutely are occurring, and would certainly worry me if they were using AZ for younger patients.