Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[brad465]

The Sunday Telegraph tomorrow is reporting that the planned vaccine passports would not be ready until the autumn (which given the Government's track record isn't surprising):



So what will happen is they'll either delay opening the venues requiring them until the autumn and cause a huge backlash because of that delay, or they'll reopen them before the passport is introduced and create massive question marks about why a passport is necessary in the autumn and not the previous few months the venues in question were open for without them.

 

[Class 33]

If it's going to take until the autumn for the vaccine passports to be ready, then they may as well just ditch the idea completely! By then all adults(apart from those who do not want or unable to take the vaccine for some medical reasons) will have got their first jab, and a very large majority will have got their second jab. Hospital numbers and daily deaths will be absolutely miniscule. Absolutely no justifications for social distancing and face mask wearing to still be going by then. So it's just absolutely pointless this going ahead, may as well just be ditched!

 

[Cdd89]

The screenshot above bears more than a passing resemblance to the Railcard app!

 

[Tomp94]

It's not about "safety" or "health" its about control and mass data gathering, and another excuse for big pharma and government chums to make a few bucks. Less than 1000 healthy people under the age of 60 have been killed from/of covid.
We should not need a bloody passport to prove anything.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It's a start, but does also show how weak and easily influenced he is (not that we didn't already know that).

It’s a good start, and it means that people en masse should pressure him more since he’s relaxed on passports for not only pubs and restaurants but also hotels, I never saw that coming I thought hotels would want passports

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2021 ==

The Sunday Telegraph tomorrow is reporting that the planned vaccine passports would not be ready until the autumn (which given the Government's track record isn't surprising):

View attachment 93760

So what will happen is they'll either delay opening the venues requiring them until the autumn and cause a huge backlash because of that delay, or they'll reopen them before the passport is introduced and create massive question marks about why a passport is necessary in the autumn and not the previous few months the venues in question were open for without them.

Boris had already said venues can reopen from Spring has he not? So by autumn which is six months away having vaccine passports for concerts and nightclubs would be utterly redundant since an unvaccinated person could go to a club every Friday for six months with no new cases, one thinks that he’s probably going to quietly drop the idea, surely he’d want them right away.

Also many pubs have a club area will they say need passports or not?? It’s unclear but good for the pubs and restaurants for pushing back against passports

 

[MikeWM]

Well, Johnson is backing down a bit on his plans for vaccine passports....

It's a trap!

From Nick Eardley's Twitter (BBC reporter, usually pretty up to scratch with these things):

Will NOT be needed for pubs and restaurants when they re-open in the coming weeks.

But No 10 not ruling them out further down the line - perhaps to reduce social distancing requirements.

Ah, so they're not even trying to disguise that its a trap.

Included : Major sports stadiums, Nightclubs, Festivals, Theatres, Concert Venues, Cinemas
Excluded : Pubs, Restaurants, Non Essential Shops, Buses, Trains, Hotels

But there are three categories to worry about:

- Required
- Optional for the venue (probably as an alternative to 'social' distancing nonsense)
- Not allowed

Unless the suggestion is that there will be no 'up to the venue' allowed, it will either be a legal requirement or legally not allowed.

Also, given the demographic that usually goes to them, this will be the final blow to cinemas, which were already looking in a very precarious situation for a number of reasons.

The screenshot above bears more than a passing resemblance to the Railcard app!

No longer human beings, we will just be represented by QR codes.

Plus it doesn't bear thinking about the ID theft implications of having to expose your name, date of birth and passport photo to all and sundry, if it is anything remotely like the example shown.

 

[bramling]

It's a trap!



Ah, so they're not even trying to disguise that its a trap.



But there are three categories to worry about:

- Required
- Optional for the venue (probably as an alternative to 'social' distancing nonsense)
- Not allowed

Unless the suggestion is that there will be no 'up to the venue' allowed, it will either be a legal requirement or legally not allowed.

Also, given the demographic that usually goes to them, this will be the final blow to cinemas, which were already looking in a very precarious situation for a number of reasons.

It’s obvious a false dichotomy is going to be engineered - you accept vaccine passports, or “social distancing” has to stay (until when?).

So much for send this packing in 12 weeks...

A lot of what we see now is BJ continuing the same old theme of blame the people for anything negative which could potentially be pinned on him.

As for cinemas, why would we expect BJ to give a toss if they go bust and their staff are made redundant? Does BJ even know what a cinema is, unless they visited them whilst at the Bullingdon Club?!...

 

[Ascotroyal]

Well the article does still say that a review of social distancing(and face mask wearing) is still coming up, so both could still go on 21st June. And by then I don't know how an earth they can continue to justify keeping these restrictions going any longer than that.

Social distancing, socially distanced. God, I absolutely detest these phrases that were introduced last year! They have got to be the most grating phrases ever in my opinion! Can't wait till the time(fairly soon hopefully) when we finally stop hearing and seeing these damn words!

Can add "The new normal" like the 2 phrases you have mentioned above that i also can not stand.

 

[duncanp]

Want to visit Granny? Make sure to have your cleanliness certification ready!

Grandparents could use Covid passport app to screen birthday party guests

Government-backed app will be used by major events and could see fans sit in different parts of stadiums according to their virus status

www.telegraph.co.uk

I actually can't tell if they're taking the p!$$ with this or not.

This is a couple of days late, surely.

If it had been published on April 1st, it would have made a good April Fools joke.

But seriously, how the hell are they going to check up on this?

Are the police going to raid Granny's house and demand to see the COVID status certification of anyone present?

Actually pretend I didn't say that, because if they can close down a church service, as happened on Good Friday, I wouldn't put it past the more zealous of police forces to start raiding house parties and demanding to see whether people have the correct COVID status certification.

 

[Bantamzen]

Want to visit Granny? Make sure to have your cleanliness certification ready!

Grandparents could use Covid passport app to screen birthday party guests

Government-backed app will be used by major events and could see fans sit in different parts of stadiums according to their virus status

www.telegraph.co.uk

I actually can't tell if they're taking the p!$$ with this or not.

This article is so badly written its actually funny. Its obviously a story from Denmark, but they've tried really hard to make it sound like its also planned here.

Well, Johnson is backing down a bit on his plans for vaccine passports....

Boris Johnson ditches pub vaccine passport plans in hospitality boost

BORIS Johnson has ditched plans to force customers to show a vaccine passport every time they go into a pub. In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from…

www.thesun.co.uk

In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from new Covid safety rules.

The vaccine passport is dead if this is true (it is the Sun after all). But if it is, there is no way in hell that the sports and entertainment industries would accept being singled out when pubs & restaurants are not.

 

[DustyBin]

He's backing down a bit in order to try to divide the opposition. The trouble is that the whole concept needs to not exist at all for domestic scenarios. The more focused it is on a limited range of venues, the more it will be deemed "reasonable" to keep it in place forever. Also note the ongoing social distancing and masks in pubs

I agree, we’re being manipulated (again) and once we accept this in principle it will be rolled out more widely. It’s basically coercion; vaccine passports or social distancing, take your pick.

The risk is that a system will still be introduced, from which some (or many) things are exempted. Once the system has bedded in, the list of exemptions starts shrinking.

Again, I agree.

From Nick Eardley's Twitter (BBC reporter, usually pretty up to scratch with these things): https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1378459799269048321

That looks like confirmation, vaccine passports or social distancing. It’s increasingly obvious that the return to normal we were looking forward to on June 21st isn’t happening; it was another lie. Those resisting vaccine passports will be deemed to have brought this upon themselves no doubt (conveniently ignoring the fact that vaccine passports are not normal).

Can add "The new normal" like the 2 phrases you have mentioned above that i also can not stand.

“Covid secure” is the one that gets me, meaningless drivel. I find “the new normal” as sinister as it is irritating.

 

[duncanp]

I agree, we’re being manipulated (again) and once we accept this in principle it will be rolled out more widely. It’s basically coercion; vaccine passports or social distancing, take your pick.



Again, I agree.



That looks like confirmation, vaccine passports or social distancing. It’s increasingly obvious that the return to normal we were looking forward to on June 21st isn’t happening; it was another lie. Those resisting vaccine passports will be deemed to have brought this upon themselves no doubt (conveniently ignoring the fact that vaccine passports are not normal).



“Covid secure” is the one that gets me, meaningless drivel. I find “the new normal” as sinister as it is irritating.

It will be interesting to see what happens on June 21st then.

The roadmap does not say that the easing planned for 21st June is dependent on a system of "COVID certification" being ready, only that the easing is dependent on the figures for cases, vaccinations, hospitalisations and deaths.

If the government thinks it can delay the abolition of social distancing until the App is ready, it will face an almighty revolt in parliament, quite a large level of civil disobedience in the country, and increasing levels of civil unrest.

And the longer it takes for the App to be ready, the more chance there will be that the data shows that "COVID certification" is completely uncecessary.

 

[Cdd89]

If the government thinks it can delay the abolition of social distancing until the App is ready, it will face an almighty revolt

I wonder. Most people seem to love the word “caution”, so you / we are gambling on that sentiment changing. I hate the idea of vaccine passports and I also hate restrictions. But some of the opposition to vaccine passports is from Zero Covid people who equally think nothing of imposing as many restrictions as possible.

I do think it’s credible that in two months we could face the social choice between theatres staying closed (or operating with unworkable social distancing), and theatres being open but with a passport/testing scheme. I’m desperate to get back to the theatre and my preference would be without social distancing and without vaccine passports. In fact I’d be prepared to do so now, with the vulnerable vaccinated and myself not.

The question is whether that’s accepted by politicians and the public, and if it isn’t accepted (plenty of people are going on about large events not resuming until 2022, let’s say cases are moving slowly upwards in a couple of months), whether passporting is a less bad evil if it does get acceptance for these things opening a bit earlier? I’m honestly not sure and I’m aware that any form of ID is an incredibly slippery slope, but even so I don’t think it’s an easy choice!

 

[Richard Scott]

I wonder. Most people seem to love the word “caution”, so you / we are gambling on that sentiment changing. I hate the idea of vaccine passports and I also hate restrictions. But some of the opposition to vaccine passports is from Zero Covid people who equally think nothing of imposing as many restrictions as possible.

I do think it’s credible that in two months we could face the social choice between theatres staying closed (or operating with unworkable social distancing), and theatres being open but with a passport/testing scheme. I’m desperate to get back to the theatre and my preference would be without social distancing and without vaccine passports. In fact I’d be prepared to do so now, with the vulnerable vaccinated and myself not.

The question is whether that’s accepted by politicians and the public, and if it isn’t accepted (plenty of people are going on about large events not resuming until 2022, let’s say cases are moving slowly upwards in a couple of months), whether passporting is a less bad evil if it does get acceptance for these things opening a bit earlier? I’m honestly not sure and I’m aware that any form of ID is an incredibly slippery slope, but even so I don’t think it’s an easy choice!

But it's a choice that shouldn't have to be made. It's more goalpost shifting and for absolutely no benefit.

 

[Cdd89]

But it's a choice that shouldn't have to be made. It's more goalpost shifting and for absolutely no benefit.

(Just in case it wasn’t clear from my post), I fully agree with this statement!

 

[kez19]

Maybe throwing a spanner here but if the politicians want the public to take these up do we really believe they themselves let alone in media will have one or do we as suspect it’s one for us and none for them?

I’m tad suspect in this media drive for it (be media alone or be both parties), which feels like a trial by media.

 

[Smidster]

But it's a choice that shouldn't have to be made. It's more goalpost shifting and for absolutely no benefit.

But the fact that it has no benefit does not matter if the perception is that it will help "save lives" and is the only way to restore freedoms

There will be no civil unrest or riots - overwhelming majority will comply of it allows them to get out of the house and won't care about the negative consequences on civil liberties or equality groups.

There is majority support for this in the population...the view here is very much s minority.

 

[DustyBin]

But the fact that it has no benefit does not matter if the perception is that it will help "save lives" and is the only way to restore freedoms

There will be no civil unrest or riots - overwhelming majority will comply of it allows them to get out of the house and won't care about the negative consequences on civil liberties or equality groups.

There is majority support for this in the population...the view here is very much s minority.

Im not sure I’d go as far as to say there’s majority support, but an awful lot of people simply won’t consider the wider implications. I do agree that many people will accept (if not actually support) just about anything at this stage as they’re so beleaguered.

 

[Darandio]

There is majority support for this in the population...the view here is very much s minority.

Is that right?

 

[Richard Scott]

(Just in case it wasn’t clear from my post), I fully agree with this statement!

No you were definitely clear. I certainly didn't read it any other way!!

 

[Yew]

But it's a choice that shouldn't have to be made. It's more goalpost shifting and for absolutely no benefit.

Indeed, if they want to introduce it, they should be required to provide empirical evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it is effective, and that it has a cost/benefit ratio which is within the standard NHS range for approval of treatments.


I am certain that they will do neither, because they know what the results of such analysis would be.

 

[Eyersey468]

Indeed, if they want to introduce it, they should be required to provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it is effective, and that it has a most/benefit ratio which is within the standard NHS range for approval of treatments.


I am certain that they will do neither, because they know what the results of such analysis would be.

+1

 

[richa2002]

Indeed, if they want to introduce it, they should be required to provide empirical evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it is effective, and that it has a cost/benefit ratio which is within the standard NHS range for approval of treatments.


I am certain that they will do neither, because they know what the results of such analysis would be.

Therefore is pretty much as conclusive proof as any (if you needed any more) that all this theatre is almost nothing to do with health but everything to do with the evil human desire for power and control.

 

[kez19]

Therefore is pretty much as conclusive proof as any (if you needed any more) that all this theatre is almost nothing to do with health but everything to do with the evil human desire for power and control.

Aah mind though what you say could well be saying.. I’ll get a bit of tinfoil for you.

In short I fully agree with you here!

 

[kristiang85]

Indeed, if they want to introduce it, they should be required to provide empirical evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it is effective, and that it has a cost/benefit ratio which is within the standard NHS range for approval of treatments.


I am certain that they will do neither, because they know what the results of such analysis would be.

Well they never did it with masks, lockdowns or curfews, so I don't expect them to start now.

 

[Bantamzen]

But the fact that it has no benefit does not matter if the perception is that it will help "save lives" and is the only way to restore freedoms

There will be no civil unrest or riots - overwhelming majority will comply of it allows them to get out of the house and won't care about the negative consequences on civil liberties or equality groups.

There is majority support for this in the population...the view here is very much s minority.

You haven't been keeping up with events have you?

 

[TravelDream]

I really hope these don't come in as once they come in, they will be very difficult to get rid of. Also, given this government's record, they won't be out until next year, be described as 'world-beating' and not actually work.
Though I do think they are basically inevitable for international travel.

If it's going to take until the autumn for the vaccine passports to be ready, then they may as well just ditch the idea completely! By then all adults(apart from those who do not want or unable to take the vaccine for some medical reasons) will have got their first jab, and a very large majority will have got their second jab. Hospital numbers and daily deaths will be absolutely miniscule. Absolutely no justifications for social distancing and face mask wearing to still be going by then. So it's just absolutely pointless this going ahead, may as well just be ditched!

It should be more than that. Pfizer has already completed its trial with kids aged 12-15 and submitted that data to the FDA in the US. They US should license it for everyone aged 12+ within the next couple of weeks. Hopefully they will submit and get approved in the UK in the near future. The Oxford/AZ kids trial has started and should report by summer as well.

By summer, I hope we will be swimming in vaccine (relatively) so the second jab could be brought forward too.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, if they want to introduce it, they should be required to provide empirical evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it is effective, and that it has a cost/benefit ratio which is within the standard NHS range for approval of treatments.

First time for everything I suppose !

 

[kristiang85]

Remember that income tax was unpopular when it came in, and was promised as an emergency war measure. Yet now we see it as an essential part of life.

Same as that, on a much smaller scale, we don't bat an eyelid now going through the ridiculous ritual of pouring liquids into 100ml bottles and a plastic bag when we get on a plane, despite being told 15 years ago it was a temporary measure until technology was developed to sort it.

I really fear that unless we stop this dead in our tracks that the generation after us will see having to prove their "cleanliness" to do normal activities as a standard way of life.

 

[bengley]

Remember that income tax was unpopular when it came in, and was promised as an emergency war measure. Yet now we see it as an essential part of life.

Same as that, on a much smaller scale, we don't bat an eyelid now going through the ridiculous ritual of pouring liquids into 100ml bottles and a plastic bag when we get on a plane, despite being told 15 years ago it was a temporary measure until technology was developed to sort it.

I really fear that unless we stop this dead in our tracks that the generation after us will see having to prove their "cleanliness" to do normal activities as a standard way of life.

Another thing which was temporary... The Dartford Crossing toll charge...