Utilising ECS services as express services

[Mathieu]

I've noticed many ECS movements across the Strathclyde area and wondered why they aren't used as express services, albeit with odd stopping patterns but could still be useful.

For example, 5C05 1808 Carstairs to Yoker C.S. could run as 1C05 1808 Carstairs to Garscadden, stopping at Motherwell, Rutherglen, Argyle Street, Glasgow Central Low Level, Partick, Garscadden. Then operate as 5C05 1932 Garscadden to Yoker C.S.
[http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G80722/2019/04/01/advanced]

 

[Mathieu]

Another on could be 5H61 0909 Springburn to Yoker C.S. could run as 1H61 0909 Springburn to Garscadden, stopping at Duke St., High St., Glasgow Queen St. Low Level, Partick, Garscadden. Then operate as 5H61 09:31 Garscadden to Yoker C.S.
[http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G80856/2019/04/01/advanced]

 

[30907]

Your first example isn't a very good one, as it has oodles of pathing time between Motherwell and Rutherglen and is overtaken by the following Edinburgh-Glasgow-Ayr. However, that's not the main issue.

When a passenger train terminates and its next working is ECS time has to be allowed for the train to be cleared of passengers - traincrew on the forum will enlighten us further - and doing so on a through platform such as Garscadden is better avoided. E.g. an evening train that currently terminates at Woking is being extended passenger to Farnham from May to ease congestion.
There may also be a staffing issue, as I think on Strathclyde the train would have to carry a second staff member.

Interestingly, there are examples of contra-peak trains which were once ECS but now run in service on the Blackfriars- Beckenham Junction route. I suspect this is because there isn't time at Beckenham in the evening for the one crew member (it's DOO) to check the train, ditto Blackfriars in the morning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are a number of Tring stoppers in the morning and evening which are extended to/from Bletchley as the stock lives there as do the crews so they might as well run in service.

 

[Ianno87]

Interestingly, there are examples of contra-peak trains which were once ECS but now run in service on the Blackfriars- Beckenham Junction route. I suspect this is because there isn't time at Beckenham in the evening for the one crew member (it's DOO) to check the train, ditto Blackfriars in the morning.

Sometimes it's also because it's quicker to reset the passenger information displays when going Passenger-to-Passenger than Passenger-to-ECS or vice-versa.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Another old timer will no doubt be able to confirm, but I'm sure in the early 70's there was a set of empties from Blackfriars to Orpington that ran as a passenger train for staff between Lewisham and Beckenham Jn and a similar reverse movement in the afternoon. I'm sure I used it when doing my ticket office training at the old Divisional Mangers Office at Beckenham.

 

[Mathieu]

Another old timer will no doubt be able to confirm, but I'm sure in the early 70's there was a set of empties from Blackfriars to Orpington that ran as a passenger train for staff between Lewisham and Beckenham Jn and a similar reverse movement in the afternoon. I'm sure I used it when doing my ticket office training at the old Divisional Mangers Office at Beckenham.

I think 5C05 1808 Carstairs to Yoker C.S. might be a passenger service for staff as it has booked stops on the way to Yoker C.S.

 

[30907]

Another old timer will no doubt be able to confirm, but I'm sure in the early 70's there was a set of empties from Blackfriars to Orpington that ran as a passenger train for staff between Lewisham and Beckenham Jn and a similar reverse movement in the afternoon. I'm sure I used it when doing my ticket office training at the old Divisional Mangers Office at Beckenham.

Yes there was. ISTR the WTT showed it as ECS with a note "available for staff" - IIRC the old District offices were at Orpington so it simplified travel for staff from the Dartford lines who transferred.
Edit: 08+14 Holborn- Beckenham and 16+45 Swanley-Holborn in 1979 (I'd forgotten that - assumed it was the sets that had berthed in platform 4) - don't think it had changed since 1967.

 

[mrcheek]

In fairness, it seems that every year, a small number of ecs moves are being converted to actual services.
In the early mornings, some GWR Paddington services via Bristol temple Meads start at Weston-super-Mare. And the former ecs movement from Bristol to Weston has become a passenger service on some of them

 

[David M]

The fly on the wall from Glasgow Central a couple of Sundays ago had an Edinburgh 156 stuck behind a Kilmarnock one. The Edinburgh one was then cancelled as it was 10 minutes late and passengers forced to get off. The train then ran as ECS to Waverley 'to catch the delayed time back'. I did wonder - why not say anyone going to Waverley, stay on as this is now Express and, even, that it was likely to have a delay at Haymarket so why not stop at both? All staff were on board so no issues in that regard.

 

[Highlandspring]

I did wonder - why not say anyone going to Waverley, stay on as this is now Express and, even, that it was likely to have a delay at Haymarket so why not stop at both? All staff were on board so no issues in that regard.

That would count as “skip stopping” which was banned by ScotRail in all but the most exceptional circumstances because of a hysterical media and political campaign. Everyone knows that cancelling and running empty is nonsense but unfortunately that’s the law of unintended consequences in action.

 

[gordonthemoron]

There are a number of Tring stoppers in the morning and evening which are extended to/from Bletchley as the stock lives there as do the crews so they might as well run in service.

I thought they already started/finished in Bletchley?

 

[Peter Kelford]

ECS could be run as passenger trains, but it is probably limited to additional coaches or units stuck onto the back of an existing train so that a path can be saved. For instance, empty stock from Carstairs to Yoker might have an additional MU put on the back of it, being quickly detached at Garscadden and proceeding up to Dalmuir.

 

[Highlandspring]

ECS could be run as passenger trains, but it is probably limited to additional coaches or units stuck onto the back of an existing train so that a path can be saved. For instance, empty stock from Carstairs to Yoker might have an additional MU put on the back of it, being quickly detached at Garscadden and proceeding up to Dalmuir.

The signalling system doesn't permit that, Garscadden isn't permissive.

 

[Peter Kelford]

The signalling system doesn't permit that, Garscadden isn't permissive.

Maybe a second block could be put onto the down side?

 

[Highlandspring]

£150000 for an IECC data change before you even think about designing, testing and installing anything on the ground.....

 

[Stopper]

The hysterical media campaign over skip-stopping was because ScotRail were beginning take the mick with it and were doing it more and more regularly. It had to stop. In the most exceptional of circumstances I can understand it, although the 17:15 E-G shuttle on Tuesday skipped Linlithgow despite being on time, so hundreds of passengers had to get off at Polmont and cram on the 3-car Cumbernauld back the way.

 

[Highlandspring]

In the most exceptional of circumstances I can understand it, although the 17:15 E-G shuttle on Tuesday skipped Linlithgow despite being on time, so hundreds of passengers had to get off at Polmont and cram on the 3-car Cumbernauld back the way.

That one was down to the driver misreading his schedule card.

 

[kilonewton]

...although the 17:15 E-G shuttle on Tuesday skipped Linlithgow despite being on time, so hundreds of passengers had to get off at Polmont and cram on the 3-car Cumbernauld back the way.

Surely the Cumbernauld would have been empty, as per the claims regularly made on this forum that they carry nothing but fresh air.
A friend was on said train, report was that regular Linlithgow passengers were getting up from seats and heading towards doors, a few worried glances at each other as the train wasn’t slowing down past the cricket ground, or Linlithgow UPL for those who only know the railway, then a rather hard application of brakes, too late to not overshoot as the case was, then on to Polmont.
I got the text message from my friend when the 17:15 from Queen St that I was on was at Falkirk High. I waved at him as we sailed through Polmont with the refugees still filing off the footbridge!

 

[Stopper]

Surely the Cumbernauld would have been empty, as per the claims regularly made on this forum that they carry nothing but fresh air.
A friend was on said train, report was that regular Linlithgow passengers were getting up from seats and heading towards doors, a few worried glances at each other as the train wasn’t slowing down past the cricket ground, or Linlithgow UPL for those who only know the railway, then a rather hard application of brakes, too late to not overshoot as the case was, then on to Polmont.
I got the text message from my friend when the 17:15 from Queen St that I was on was at Falkirk High. I waved at him as we sailed through Polmont with the refugees still filing off the footbridge!

A family member of mine was on the service. She said that there must have been close to 200 passengers piling over the footbridge at Polmont. A 3-car 385 holds 206 passengers, so I’d imagine regardless of anyone being on the Cumbernauld service or not, it would have been full by the time it left Polmont.

 

[kilonewton]

A family member of mine was on the service. She said that there must have been close to 200 passengers piling over the footbridge at Polmont. A 3-car 385 holds 206 passengers, so I’d imagine regardless of anyone being on the Cumbernauld service or not, it would have been full by the time it left Polmont.

Yeah, upon further questioning, my friend said it was a little snug. Although not 6 Nations level of snug. But we seem to have drifted off topic....