using someone else's student card

[muratd]

Hello everyone, yesterday I was caught by an employee while traveling on an overground bus with a zip student card I found on the ground. He took the card from me and asked for my information. When I refused, he insisted, and I only showed him a card with my name and surname on it. I gave him an address that belonged to an acquaintance, and I gave him the wrong date of birth and age. He wrote everything down in a small notebook and let me go without giving me anything. I found out a letter was sent. If I send it back, could they find me again by pointing out the wrong address? I know what I did was wrong.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone, yesterday I was caught by an employee while traveling on an overground bus with a zip student card I found on the ground. He took the card from me and asked for my information. When I refused, he insisted, and I only showed him a card with my name and surname on it. I gave him an address that belonged to an acquaintance, and I gave him the wrong date of birth and age. He wrote everything down in a small notebook and let me go without giving me anything. I found out a letter was sent. If I send it back, could they find me again by pointing out the wrong address? I know what I did was wrong.

Welcome

Is this TfL in London? I assume so.

Well, as this escalates through the usual process they will send letters to that address you gave (your acquaintance's address) and those letters, if not responded to, will eventually likely be letters form a court, which I suspect might after some time then become visits from a court bailiff trying to find you.

I would tend to think your acquaintance won't be very happy when that happens and if your acquaintance knows your address - given that they took your name from what you showed them so the bailiffs are looking for a person with that name - that acquaintance might tell them where to find you - because that is a way to get rid of bailiffs they don't want calling at their address.

By the time things have got to court and bailiffs trying to collect a court fine debt have been involved, the sum of money to be paid will inevitably be much larger than it would have been had they been able to find you with less hassle.

Some of this may depend on how old you are - eg if you are over 18 years of age.

Do you have the letter that you say you know was sent to your acquaintance? Do you know what it says?

 

[6Gman]

Hello everyone, yesterday I was caught by an employee while traveling on an overground bus with a zip student card I found on the ground. He took the card from me and asked for my information. When I refused, he insisted, and I only showed him a card with my name and surname on it. I gave him an address that belonged to an acquaintance, and I gave him the wrong date of birth and age. He wrote everything down in a small notebook and let me go without giving me anything. I found out a letter was sent. If I send it back, could they find me again by pointing out the wrong address? I know what I did was wrong.

This is a little confusing. By "I found out a letter was sent" do you mean that you now understand that a letter will be sent?

Since you were only caught yesterday they'd hardly have already sent a letter.

@WesternLancer is correct in outlining what's likely to happen.

They will send a letter to the address you gave.
It then depends on what your acquaintance does. If he/she forwards it to you then come back here for advice. If he/she bins it then the process outlined will play out as explained up to and including bailiffs at the door. A third possibility would be that your acquaintance might return the letter marked "not at this address". Not sure what that might lead to ...

 

[muratd]

Welcome

Is this TfL in London? I assume so.

Well, as this escalates through the usual process they will send letters to that address you gave (your acquaintance's address) and those letters, if not responded to, will eventually likely be letters form a court, which I suspect might after some time then become visits from a court bailiff trying to find you.

I would tend to think your acquaintance won't be very happy when that happens and if your acquaintance knows your address - given that they took your name from what you showed them so the bailiffs are looking for a person with that name - that acquaintance might tell them where to find you - because that is a way to get rid of bailiffs they don't want calling at their address.

By the time things have got to court and bailiffs trying to collect a court fine debt have been involved, the sum of money to be paid will inevitably be much larger than it would have been had they been able to find you with less hassle.

Some of this may depend on how old you are - eg if you are over 18 years of age.

Do you have the letter that you say you know was sent to your acquaintance? Do you know what it says?

When the officer asked, I said I was 26 years old and that the incident happened yesterday. The letter just arrived, and my friend will come and give me information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:56 ==

When the officer asked, I said I was 26 years old and that the incident happened yesterday. The letter just arrived, and my friend will come and give me information.

I apologize for the incorrect translation because I used a translation tool. The letter didn't arrive; the incident happened yesterday.

 

[Swedenorer]

You must tell your acquainted immediately and make sure he gives you any letter that arrives. You must then deal with it honestly. If you don't what Western Lancer outlines will most likely happen.

 

[muratd]

The person the letter is going to is my friend, and they'll definitely do whatever I tell them to do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 13:14 ==

I’m scared that if I accept the fine, I’ll have to go to court and it will go on my record. If they gave me a small fine, I’d be willing to pay it.

 

[WesternLancer]

The person the letter is going to is my friend, and they'll definitely do whatever I tell them to do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 13:14 ==

I’m scared that if I accept the fine, I’ll have to go to court and it will go on my record. If they gave me a small fine, I’d be willing to pay it.

OK - when you get the letter from your friend then upload a copy of it here and people will give you advice on what to do about it - when you upload the copy here remove any personal information about you or any ref numbers on the letter so that it protects your privacy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 16:06 ==

I’m scared that if I accept the fine, I’ll have to go to court and it will go on my record. If they gave me a small fine, I’d be willing to pay it.

I suspect you are mixing up the process for a Penalty Fare which you may have seen posters at stations about, (£100 reduced to £50 if paid promptly), with the process of a court issuing a fine for an offence.

It does not sound like you have been issued with a Penalty Fare however. A Penalty Fare is not a fine although it seems like one.

Unfortunately TfL take the deliberate mis use of other people's reduced fare cards (zip cards / freedom passes etc) very seriously, because it allows you to make a lot of travel for free or reduced costs that you are not entitled to do.
TfL prosecute a lot of people in court for this every year - thousands of people in fact - so you have to consider that being taken to court is quite possible I'm afraid.

If it goes to court and the court decides you are guilty then the court will issue a fine (this is the punishment for the offence) and there is a record of that court punishment (a 'criminal record' - which is literally a record made by the court of a crime someone has committed) - you are required to declare that if asked about it for a period of time - possibly 1 or 2 years - it's the sort of thing you might get asked about in a job application, or for applying for something like insurance etc.
That being said this is a relatively minor offence.

We also see on here that many of these things are dealt with by the courts using something called the SJPN - the single justice procedure notice. This means you don't actually have to go to court and you can post back paperwork to the court with a plea, and then the court send you the details of the fine in the post.

But at the moment you don't know what is going to happen until you see what is in the letter that has been sent to you.

 

[muratd]

OK - when you get the letter from your friend then upload a copy of it here and people will give you advice on what to do about it - when you upload the copy here remove any personal information about you or any ref numbers on the letter so that it protects your privacy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 16:06 ==


I suspect you are mixing up the process for a Penalty Fare which you may have seen posters at stations about, (£100 reduced to £50 if paid promptly), with the process of a court issuing a fine for an offence.

It does not sound like you have been issued with a Penalty Fare however. A Penalty Fare is not a fine although it seems like one.

Unfortunately TfL take the deliberate mis use of other people's reduced fare cards (zip cards / freedom passes etc) very seriously, because it allows you to make a lot of travel for free or reduced costs that you are not entitled to do.
TfL prosecute a lot of people in court for this every year - thousands of people in fact - so you have to consider that being taken to court is quite possible I'm afraid.

If it goes to court and the court decides you are guilty then the court will issue a fine (this is the punishment for the offence) and there is a record of that court punishment (a 'criminal record' - which is literally a record made by the court of a crime someone has committed) - you are required to declare that if asked about it for a period of time - possibly 1 or 2 years - it's the sort of thing you might get asked about in a job application, or for applying for something like insurance etc.
That being said this is a relatively minor offence.

We also see on here that many of these things are dealt with by the courts using something called the SJPN - the single justice procedure notice. This means you don't actually have to go to court and you can post back paperwork to the court with a plea, and then the court send you the details of the fine in the post.

But at the moment you don't know what is going to happen until you see what is in the letter that has been sent to you.

So if the letter arrives, should I open it and write a defense? If I write that it was my first time and that I regret it, will they only give me a fine?

 

[WesternLancer]

So if the letter arrives, should I open it and write a defense? If I write that it was my first time and that I regret it, will they only give me a fine?

when you get the letter you need to see what it says and asks you about.

As I've explained TfL don't give fines. Only a court gives a fine.

This TfL document sets out what they say they will do and how they approach it - it's probably a good idea for you to read it carefully

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[AlterEgo]

So if the letter arrives, should I open it and write a defense? If I write that it was my first time and that I regret it, will they only give me a fine?

That's unlikely. TfL will likely prosecute you for the offence in the magistrates' court. They will take particular interest in Zip Oysters because our - and no doubt their - experience is that a lot of people caught say they "found it on the ground", when in reality it seems more likely there's a Facebook or WhatsApp group doing the rounds to facilitate this kind of fraud.

 

[SECR 65]

Can I just follow up - have we established that the OP (original poster) is definitely dealing with TfL - I know this is believed to be the case, but I can't see that it has actually been stated by them themselves?

The distinction is important. Different Train Operating Companies deal with fare evasion in different ways.

EDIT: I suppose the mention is of a Zip Card, so presumably in London?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can I just follow up - have we established that the OP (original poster) is definitely dealing with TfL - I know this is believed to be the case, but I can't see that it has actually been stated by them themselves?

The distinction is important. Different Train Operating Companies deal with fare evasion in different ways.

EDIT: I suppose the mention is of a Zip Card, so presumably in London?

OP stated in post #1 that they were stopped on a bus, didn't they?

 

[SECR 65]

OP stated in post #1 that they were stopped on a bus, didn't they?

Yes they did.

I'm not completely in touch with London buses - I assume Oyster Cards are only valid on bus services operated on behalf of TfL? I just wanted to check that someone can be almost certain the OP is dealing with TfL?

 

[AndroidBango]

Yes they did.

I'm not completely in touch with London buses - I assume Oyster Cards are only valid on bus services operated on behalf of TfL? I just wanted to check that someone can be almost certain the OP is dealing with TfL?

You can only use Oyster on a TfL operated bus. The OP is dealing with TfL.

 

[muratd]

I honestly don't know what will happen; we'll wait and see when the letter arrives.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The person the letter is going to is my friend, and they'll definitely do whatever I tell them to do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 13:14 ==

I’m scared that if I accept the fine, I’ll have to go to court and it will go on my record. If they gave me a small fine, I’d be willing to pay it.

I suggest you tell your friend immediately that you used their name in this way. If he finds out about this via a letter, he may not be your friend much longer!

 

[WesternLancer]

I honestly don't know what will happen; we'll wait and see when the letter arrives.

I'm sorry this isn't good news nor what you you will want to hear - but I think you have to prepare yourself for the realistic prospect of court prosecution

We don't see much evidence on here of people apologising to TfL and saying they have not done this before, being let off with a warning. Is that even really correct? I suspect you meant not been caught doing this before - unless you picked up that student zip card and were caught using it the first time you travelled, you have committed the offence multiple times before being caught.

Their default procedure seems to be to prosecute people for fare evasion (c15,000 people a year according to TfL info published).

We do see cases of people using a specialist fares evasion solicitor being given warnings instead of court, so that seems to increase the probability of not being taken to court - but you would be looking at c£750 legal fees to the solicitor for that help - and a favourable outcome is not always guaranteed.

You need to read the TfL document I linked to and see what it says about mitigating circumstances - which is the main reason they say they don't prosecute - but I'm not sure what mitigation there is to 'finding someone else's card on the ground, taking it, knowing it was not yours, then using it regularly for travel' - but it's worth you at least checking that because that is what you would need to put to them when you reply to the letter they will send to seek to persuade them not to prosecute.

 

[dosxuk]

So if the letter arrives, should I open it and write a defense? If I write that it was my first time and that I regret it, will they only give me a fine?

Was it really the first time you used the card you found? Or was this just the first time you've been caught. TfL will find it very hard to believe that they managed to catch you on the very first time you attempted to use the card. And bear in mind they will be able to see exactly when and where the card was used - and a change in journey pattern will be pretty obvious - giving them a very good idea of when the card was actually first used illegitimately.

Basically, if it wasn't the very first time you used the card, don't include that in any of your messaging, they may already have enough evidence to prove you aren't telling the truth, which will cast doubt on everything else you say.

 

[muratd]

Thank you for the information.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the information.

Just to add - as the process progresses - you can get good help from here on questions you might have, how to best respond, what to expect and how the aim to get the best (or perhaps the least worst) outcome at each stage.