Using "altered" Railcard.

[pp236]

Hello,

I made a terrible mistake: I used and showed a railcard which was not mine but had my picture. When scanned, the member of staff of the GWR noticed and interviewed me and got my personal details. These will be sent to the prosecution team and I will receive a letter. This member of staff told me that most likely it will be a fine. I cannot go to court or have a criminal conviction as it would affect my personal and professional life.

I just want to tell them how sorry I am, that I am aware of the magnitude and consequences of the problem and that I am willing to pay any necessary fine.

Can I have any opinion on this? When should I expect to receive the letter? Is it possible to resolve it by responding to the letter, explaining the situation, apologise and accept to pay the fine first thing?

 

[Western Sunset]

Slightly confused; how come it's not your card but has your photo on it?

 

[pp236]

Slightly confused; how come it's not your card but has your photo on it?

I friend sent me a railcard screenshot (which I suppose it's theirs) with the picture on it, I did not think it was much of a problem.

 

[Xander]

Hello,

I made a terrible mistake: I used and showed a railcard which was not mine but had my picture. When scanned, the member of staff of the GWR noticed and interviewed me and got my personal details. These will be sent to the prosecution team and I will receive a letter. This member of staff told me that most likely it will be a fine. I cannot go to court or have a criminal conviction as it would affect my personal and professional life.

I just want to tell them how sorry I am, that I am aware of the magnitude and consequences of the problem and that I am willing to pay any necessary fine.

Can I have any opinion on this? When should I expect to receive the letter? Is it possible to resolve it by responding to the letter, explaining the situation, apologise and accept to pay the fine first thing?

At the end of the day, a railcard that isn't yours has been used for your travel so they're acting within their rights. How that card was made with your photo and someone else's details will likely be used against you.

Letters can take up to 10 working days but they're usually quicker than this - depends on when the revenue inspector finalises their report back at the office. This will have your options which typically will involve a fine to avoid court.

If its your first offence, I wouldn't worry. If your willing to pay an out of court settlement then pay up. I've never known GWR to go straight to court, even with people who have been evading £10,000+ worth of travel

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Welcome to the forum.

Did you purchase your (incorrectly) discounted rail ticket(s) online using, for example, Trainline?

If online, it will be quite easy for the investigations team to obtain/look at your ticket purchasing history to ascertain if you have previously bought any discounted tickets.

 

[pp236]

At the end of the day, a railcard that isn't yours has been used for your travel so they're acting within their rights. How that card was made with your photo and someone else's details will likely be used against you.

Letters can take up to 10 working days but they're usually quicker than this - depends on when the revenue inspector finalises their report back at the office. This will have your options which typically will involve a fine to avoid court.

If its your first offence, I wouldn't worry. If your willing to pay an out of court settlement then pay up. I've never known GWR to go straight to court, even with people who have been evading £10,000+ worth of travelthank

Thank you for reply.

Yes, this is my first offence. Is it possible to know, approximately, how much is the fine to avoid court/out of court settlement?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2022 ==

Welcome to the forum.

Did you purchase your (incorrectly) discounted rail ticket(s) online using, for example, Trainline?

If online, it will be quite easy for the investigations team to obtain/look at your ticket purchasing history to ascertain if you have previously purchased any discounted tickets.

Thanks,

I did purchase it using trainline, therefore I admitted to the inspector that I had used the railcard discount one time earlier (2 in total).

 

[Xander]

how much is the fine to avoid court/out of court settlement?

I couldn't guess. It depends on how much the ticket was and what you said to them.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, this is my first offence. Is it possible to know, approximately, how much is the fine to avoid court/out of court settlement?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2022 ==

It's not guaranteed that the investigations team will offer you the opportunity to "settle out of court" as they will be able to demonstrate a fairly clear intent to defraud the railway.

If they do, however, give you the opportunity to "settle out of court", you can probably expect to have to pay the full undiscounted anytime single fare for each and every occasion on which you have incorrectly/fraudulently claimed discounts, plus a three figure sum on top, towards their invesigation/administrative expenses.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As others have suggested, you may not get the option to settle this out of court: using a faked railcard is rather more serious than just choosing to buy a rather cheaper ticket than you're entitled to in that you created a fake to deceive the railways when your ticket was checked rather than just hoping to luck that you wouldn't be caught out using the wrong ticket.

But going to court may not be disastrous. Although fraud (which is what this is) can lead to a prison sentence it seems to me much more likely that you would receive a fine. When court costs and prosecution costs are added, this may come to quite a large amount - but you won't go to jail.

So this should not be disastrous for your personal life. It's not as if you will be disappearing to prison for six months: rather it will be a somewhat embarrassing story to tell your friends and put up with their laughter. Obviously it would be better not to have this - but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

As for your professional life - much of that depends on what you do for a living. If you're in a role where your trustworthiness is very important (the law, healthcare, some roles involving handling other people's money - things like that) you may have a problem in that a conviction doesn't exactly say that you're reliable. But many jobs are more interested in how good you are at making widgets, or sweeping floors, or writing poetry and so on. If your job doesn't particularly involve trustworthiness then a conviction may not be too much of a problem.

Getting convicted for this is not a good thing, so it makes sense to do what you can to avoid it: there will plenty of good advice along soon as to what would be sensible to say when the railways are back in touch with you. But if you can't avoid the matter going to court, then it won't be the end of the world either. So don't panic!

 

[gray1404]

Letters can take up to 6 months to arrive following the date of the incident so it is important you keep an eye on your post continuously. Often it is quicker than this but it can take up to the above time.

 

[pp236]

As others have suggested, you may not get the option to settle this out of court: using a faked railcard is rather more serious than just choosing to buy a rather cheaper ticket than you're entitled to in that you created a fake to deceive the railways when your ticket was checked rather than just hoping to luck that you wouldn't be caught out using the wrong ticket.

But going to court may not be disastrous. Although fraud (which is what this is) can lead to a prison sentence it seems to me much more likely that you would receive a fine. When court costs and prosecution costs are added, this may come to quite a large amount - but you won't go to jail.

So this should not be disastrous for your personal life. It's not as if you will be disappearing to prison for six months: rather it will be a somewhat embarrassing story to tell your friends and put up with their laughter. Obviously it would be better not to have this - but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

As for your professional life - much of that depends on what you do for a living. If you're in a role where your trustworthiness is very important (the law, healthcare, some roles involving handling other people's money - things like that) you may have a problem in that a conviction doesn't exactly say that you're reliable. But many jobs are more interested in how good you are at making widgets, or sweeping floors, or writing poetry and so on. If your job doesn't particularly involve trustworthiness then a conviction may not be too much of a problem.

Getting convicted for this is not a good thing, so it makes sense to do what you can to avoid it: there will plenty of good advice along soon as to what would be sensible to say when the railways are back in touch with you. But if you can't avoid the matter going to court, then it won't be the end of the world either. So don't panic!

Thanks you for your reply.

I am really scared about this. The inspector said its most likely to get a fine and not to go to court. I am getting different opinions in the forum, I just hope I can solve this without going to court by paying the whole tickets without any discount plus the investigation team expenses and fares.

 

[spag23]

Bear in mind that your friend (presumably identifiable by GWR) who sent you the screenshot may be considered by them to be a party to this alleged offence. Have you contacted him/her?

 

[Deafdoggie]

cannot go to court or have a criminal conviction as it would affect my personal and professional life.

In the words of Norman Stanley Fletcher "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." But don't worry you won't be going to prison, so on the plus side things could be worse. Even if it went to court you'd "only" get a fine. Obviously the conviction too which maybe more problematic but is often less of an issue than people fear it will be. Honesty is always the best policy and demonstrates you've at least learned the error of your ways.

Yes, this is my first offence

I admitted to the inspector that I had used the railcard discount one time earlier (2 in total)

So not your first offence then. Merely your first time being caught. Honesty is always the best policy.

 

[Skymonster]

I am getting different opinions in the forum…

You are getting different opinions because no one here knows for sure what will happen. Until you get a letter from the Prosecutions Department you won’t know either, and that can take up to six months to arrive. They will consider the report from the staff member who apprehended you, the other evidence that is available (potentially including your past TrainLine purchases and whether they were railcard discounted), and then determine what charge to bring. It is up to the railway and you can‘t influence the decision now. Once you have the letter, to which you are likely to be asked to reply, you can get advice from people here on your best response strategy. Whether it is possible to settle out of court and how much that will cost you will only become more apparent when you hear from the railway. I suspect this isn’t what you want to hear if you’re already rather stressed about it, but for now you have to wait for the postie.

 

[RPI]

Your trainline previous bookings will more than likely bee obtained and the investigators will look at previous railcard discounted tickets and charge you for them along with an admin fee.

It may also be possible that your friend could be investigated should the investigator find who they are.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

What will happen next is that you are likely to receive a letter from the train company, or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. That said, as others have pointed out upthread, using an altered railcard is potenitally more serious offence and the train company may well decide to send the case to be dealt with at the Magistrates Court. If you are offered an administrative settlement you might regard it as a fine, but technically only a court can impose a fine, and so settling a case by means of an administrative settlement means you will not get a criminal conviction.

When you receive your letter post a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it.

 

[AlterEgo]

We see that GWR are normally pragmatic about things on the forum. That is, for open and shut Bylaw offences, and some of the Regulation of Railways Act offences which require intent, they almost always settle without court action.

That said, I'm not sure we have seen a case where someone has attempted blatant fraud by photoshopping a railcard with GWR, so while it's likely they will dispose of it without court, you never know.