Uses for redundant Class 67s.

[paulclass43]

With SERCO using 73/9's on the Caledonian Sleeper and Chiltern already moving to Class 68's for their mainline services. It strikes me that there are going to be alot of very modern, capable Class 67 lying around doing nothing 90% of the time.

I know everyone says the 67's are rubbish at everything. Well I say onone, 67015 if memory serves haul 2600 tonnes of loaded HTA hoppers of Hull Docks ABP boundary back in 2008. I was doing work experience with my brother in law and I was hanging out of a window painting the frames on a house that overlooks Hedon Road and the ABP/ Nettwork Rail boundary. It hauled it to Drax and brought the empties back to Hull were the 67 was replaced with a 66.

Now, I know they can't do that all the time it would kill them. But it got me thinking. Why are they not deployed on Intermodal Services to displace 66's etc to heavier duties as the growth in freight traffic makes more work.

67's have operated Intermodal before, and with ease. So why are they been faced with redundancy and possible withdrawa?

Any ideas on FOC reluctance to use them. And also what would you use the 67's on to keep them working?

 

[SprinterMan]

Good idea for a thread FGW will be taking redundant Chiltern machines in September to work the Night Riviera and finally dispense with their dire 57s. Hopefully they decide to do a couple of Summer Saturday services with them and hired in Mark 2s as well Rumours (that are yet to be backed up) exist saying that ATW are considering a 3rd LHCS diagram with a 67.

Adam

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well I think I'm right in saying that pretty much all of them are in storage at the minute?
I highly doubt that there as ever been a moment where all 30 of them have been used at one time let alone 15.
The truth is that this has happened to a lot of locos over the past 20 or so years. E.g Class 58s and 60s
Both just ended up sitting around rotting to the point where they cannot return.
When does DB's lease for them end?
Thanks,
Ross

 

[Boothby97]

Well I think I'm right in saying that pretty much all of them are in storage at the minute?
I highly doubt that there as ever been a moment where all 30 of them have been used at one time let alone 15.
The truth is that this has happened to a lot of locos over the past 20 or so years. E.g Class 58s and 60s
Both just ended up sitting around rotting to the point where they cannot return.
When does DB's lease for them end?
Thanks,
Ross

No, I think theres only one stored?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are 67s suitable at all for "Thunderbird" work?

 

[CosherB]

On what basis are all Class 67's "stored"? Apart from the Class 68, they're the only credible long-term ETH-fitted diesel loco, so I'm sure DBS will find work for a good proportion of them. What's the alternative? The likes of DRS or WCRC start sniffing around them? To call these locos as rubbish is a gross inaccuracy.

 

[cf111]

Are 67s suitable at all for "Thunderbird" work?

They do exactly that on the ECML. My memory is terrible but I think that they are located at King's Cross, Peterborough, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

 

[alexl92]

If they've nothing better to do with them, could they add in a few extra thunderbird locos along the ECML? One at York or Doncaster, maybe?

 

[ainsworth74]

If they've nothing better to do with them, could they add in a few extra thunderbird locos along the ECML? One at York or Doncaster, maybe?

That would depend on if anyone wants to pay for it. Though if there really is no other work at all DB may be willing to do offer them up on the cheap as it's better than just having them sat around!

 

[FQ]

If they've nothing better to do with them, could they add in a few extra thunderbird locos along the ECML? One at York or Doncaster, maybe?

There already is one at Donny. Locations for thunderbirds are Kings Cross, Doncaster, Newcastle and Edinburgh. It would be good to add one in at Peterborough though.

 

[fgwrich]

Good idea for a thread FGW will be taking redundant Chiltern machines in September to work the Night Riviera and finally dispense with their dire 57s. Hopefully they decide to do a couple of Summer Saturday services with them and hired in Mark 2s as well Rumours (that are yet to be backed up) exist saying that ATW are considering a 3rd LHCS diagram with a 67.

Adam

Still seems to be unconfirmed at the moment. And the Class 57 reliability issues have only really been with the hire in's from DRS. FGWs are rather more reliable than the 57 Fleet seems to be given credit for.

No, I think theres only one stored?

Correct, From memory I think it's 67030 Which was in store for at least a year, which now seems to be back in traffic. But there is another which is stored. 67003 along with another Skip Still has ETS Issues which has prevented it from running any passenger train.

That would depend on if anyone wants to pay for it. Though if there really is no other work at all DB may be willing to do offer them up on the cheap as it's better than just having them sat around!

If they've nothing better to do with them, could they add in a few extra thunderbird locos along the ECML? One at York or Doncaster, maybe?

The ECML Thunderbird Contract is reportedly up for renewal soon. No doubt that one will feature some tough competition from DB keen to find uses for this things, and DRS keen to find uses for either the 68 fleet or the ex VT 57/3s with couplings which may be useful after IEP introduction.

 

[Chester025]

Correct, From memory I think it's 67030 Which was in store for at least a year, which now seems to be back in traffic. But there is another which is stored. 67003 along with another Skip Still has ETS Issues which has prevented it from running any passenger train.

67003 worked last Saturday! -

67003 Doncaster by Chester025, on Flickr

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps DBS may sell/lease the locos abroad if regular work can not be found in the uK

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

Well I think I'm right in saying that pretty much all of them are in storage at the minute?
Ross

No mate, you're not right. The only ones out of traffic at the moment are:
67004 after a collision with a tree
67006
67018
67020

All the others are available or in traffic for ScotRail beds & Fife Circle (028 seems to have worked that for ages now), East Coast Thunderbird duties, Arriva Trains Wales WAG services, Chiltern, and a couple at Derby RTC (012 & 027) on test trains.

 

[fgwrich]

67003 worked last Saturday! -

67003 Doncaster by Chester025, on Flickr

Didn't say it was out of traffic, just barred from Passenger use. Was it providing ETS on this divert? As that is why it's been barred from ATW & Chiltern Use since last year. Also hence it's inclusion on the Sandites, a bit of which I see it is still wearing.

 

[Bodiddly]

Scotrail thunderbirds in 3 years time? HST's have been known to fail at times!

 

[XCTurbostar]

No mate, you're not right. The only ones out of traffic at the moment are:
67004 after a collision with a tree
67006
67018
67020

All the others are available or in traffic for ScotRail beds & Fife Circle (028 seems to have worked that for ages now), East Coast Thunderbird duties, Arriva Trains Wales WAG services, Chiltern, and a couple at Derby RTC (012 & 027) on test trains.

I stand corrected. Most will probably continue thunderbird work until that's exhausted and then they will probably find they're way into other parts of the network. I think the chances of them being sold on are very slim due to the fact they are in railway terms pretty much brand new, even if certain members don't like them!

Thanks,
Ross

 

[CosherB]

I think the chances of them being sold on are very slim due to the fact they are in railway terms pretty much brand new, even if certain members don't like them!

DBS don't have a great record when it comes to offloading 'useful' locos, with the notable exception of the Class 60's to Colas. Interestingly, however, DBS signed a 15 year lease for the 67's with Angel Trains ...... and it's now 2015 ......

 

[Jamesb1974]

DBS don't have a great record when it comes to offloading 'useful' locos, with the notable exception of the Class 60's to Colas. Interestingly, however, DBS signed a 15 year lease for the 67's with Angel Trains ...... and it's now 2015 ......

I'd imagine if DBS don't have a use for them, they'll stop leasing them. Saves on money!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would the 57s that get used for "Thunderbird" work be better off on freight duties with a freight toc? The 67s could take over the "Thunderbird" and diversion drag duties

 

[BantamMenace]

Potential for bidders for the new TPE and Northern ITTs to get a cheap deal on some LHCS for the likes of the S&C, Cumbrian Coast, Liverpool - Newcastle?

120 new carriages to be EMUs with drags until electrification reaches the likes of Barrow, Scarborough, Middlesborough, Chester...

 

[RichmondCommu]

Potential for bidders for the new TPE and Northern ITTs to get a cheap deal on some LHCS for the likes of the S&C, Cumbrian Coast, Liverpool - Newcastle?

120 new carriages to be EMUs with drags until electrification reaches the likes of Barrow, Scarborough, Middlesborough, Chester...

However, unless the locomotive can be controlled from the cab of the EMU you have the issue of having to run round the train at where ever the train terminates. Is it possible to run round a train at Leeds without operating restrictions?

You could of course top and tail but that would lead to additional leasing costs for the additional locomotive.

 

[MCR247]

Second page and no mention of 442s yet?! hock:hock:

 

[CosherB]

Second page and no mention of 442s yet?! hock:hock:

don't you dare! lol

 

[SuffolkRaider]

So what about the 442's...............(ducks quickly behind conveniently placed 67) lol

 

[Qwerty133]

Top and tail dragging 442s on Northern services, until a diesel 444 is made...

 

[HSTEd]

Top and tail dragging 442s on Northern services, until a diesel 444 is made...

A diesel 444..... wouldn't that have the class number... 144?

 

[paulclass43]

I don't think there are any 67's in storage at the minute. They just seem to sit in sidings idling doing nothing but waste diesel.

I have a feeling that when IEP is introduced there won't be alot of work for Thunderbirds, distributed traction is going to make them very resilient,, especially with the Hitachi Traction Packages.

If the ECML thunderbirds continue it will be new DRS Class 88 electrics with last mile diesels.

So that's going to leave three with ATW, 1 for Powderall to Oxwellmains binliners, 2 on royal train duty (rumours that they may switch to 68 power), and 3 for FGW. Oh are Scotrail still using them on the Fife circle?

I wonder if it would be worth regeering them to 100mph to increase tractive effort. All but two are permanently restricted to 100mph now anyways. What about Isolating the ETH system and shunting an extra 500hp to the traction motors??

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

I don't think there are any 67's in storage at the minute.

Already posted which 67's are out of traffic/stored at the moment. Only 4 of them, and 1 is due to collision damage.

 

[paulclass43]

Can't see unrealistic things like top and tailing EMU's happening for obvious reasons.

In a few years time there are going to be nice new DMU's and EMU's on Northern Rail and TPE so LHCS is out there.

I really can't see 67's having much of a future in passenger or thunderbird use. I beleive their future if they're are given the chance to have one, is going to be in freight.