Used wrong oyster card

[Snegianna]

Hello, asking here for someone I know -as they are guests of London and need help. They have been stopped by inspector whilst using someone else's 60+ oyster. Their address/name has been taken but no fine or any more information has been given with regards next steps (as far as ghee understood at least).

They are staying at a hotel and are leaving shortly. They are worried that any correspondence re this matter would not arrive on time and they will not be able to act in a timely manner.

What's going to happen if that correspondence does not reach them?

They are obviously happy to pay the fine but that option wasn't given to them...

What should they do ? They are in general good ppl and are in full panic mode.

Would much appreciate the advice !

 

[najaB]

They have been stopped by inspector whilst using someone else's 60+ oyster.

How did they come to be using someone else's Oyster Card?

 

[Snegianna]

Long story short. They borrowed the card from someone they were visiting by accident (along with some store loyalty cards they needed for the day). Didn't realise at first, but carried on using as had no clue ab the difference btw a regular Oyster card and a subsidized card.

 

[Snegianna]

How did they come to be using someone else's Oyster Card?

Any thoughts on how they can be helped to resolve ?

 

[najaB]

Didn't realise at first, but carried on using as had no clue ab the difference btw a regular Oyster card and a subsidized card.

Did they have a card of their own on them at the time they were stopped? If so, did it contain a travelcard or PAYG credit?

 

[PeterC]

It wouldn't be obvious to a non-Londoner by looking at the front of the card that it was a free pass rather than a standard Oyster although the owners name and photo should give a strong hint that isn't meant to be transferable.

EDIT
I quick bit of Googling of other discussion boards shows that people do innocently pick up the info that Oysters can be shared but not the limitations to this.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Could try calling TfL on 0343 2221234 and explaining their situation. Question also arises as to what address they gave. If it was the temporary (hotel) address, then that could be awkward. Would have been better to give actual home address.

 

[Snegianna]

Could try calling TfL on 0343 2221234 and explaining their situation. Question also arises as to what address they gave. If it was the temporary (hotel) address, then that could be awkward. Would have been better to give actual home address.

Well that's my point exactly - as they are international - they what ever address in UK they had handy ...tfl helpline unfortunately was unable to advice on this subject .. not far from trying to maybe agree with hotel to try and look out for the letter ...what would happen if the letter never reaches the them ? What is the procedure then ???

 

[Snegianna]

It wouldn't be obvious to a non-Londoner by looking at the front of the card that it was a free pass rather than a standard Oyster although the owners name and photo should give a strong hint that isn't meant to be transferable.

EDIT
I quick bit of Googling of other discussion boards shows that people do innocently pick up the info that Oysters can be shared but not the limitations to this.

To them it was just travel card - they didn't make much of the fact that it was looking non- standard ... Not that they really would know what the "standard" card meant to look like

 

[Snegianna]

Did they have a card of their own on them at the time they were stopped? If so, did it contain a travelcard or PAYG credit?

Just the banking cards (international ones). How do you think that impacts the situation ?

 

[najaB]

Just the banking cards (international ones).

How many journeys do they think they made, and over what period?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If they are non-UK residents and don't intend to return to the UK anytime soon then I don't see that they have much to worry about. I don't think TOCs would bother pursuing known international residents because of the difficulty of taking them to Court and enforcing any Court ruling. There is no way anyone would be extradited over a crime of this nature, so it would only ever be enforced if they returned to the UK.

 

[PeterC]

If they are non-UK residents and don't intend to return to the UK anytime soon then I don't see that they have much to worry about. I don't think TOCs would bother pursuing known international residents because of the difficulty of taking them to Court and enforcing any Court ruling. There is no way anyone would be extradited over a crime of this nature, so it would only ever be enforced if they returned to the UK.

Can action be taken against the owner of the 60+ card for allowing it to be used?

 

[Snegianna]

If they are non-UK residents and don't intend to return to the UK anytime soon then I don't see that they have much to worry about. I don't think TOCs would bother pursuing known international residents because of the difficulty of taking them to Court and enforcing any Court ruling. There is no way anyone would be extradited over a crime of this nature, so it would only ever be enforced if they returned to the UK.

If they are non-UK residents and don't intend to return to the UK anytime soon then I don't see that they have much to worry about. I don't think TOCs would bother pursuing known international residents because of the difficulty of taking them to Court and enforcing any Court ruling. There is no way anyone would be extradited over a crime of this nature, so it would only ever be enforced if they returned to the UK.

Well in all honesty they would like to be able to return at some point and to be fair they are trying to mitigate the issue. What exactly happens with this situation ? 1. Are they issued a just penalty ? Or 2. There is a court ? If so what happens if they do not respond (for reasons of not getting the letter ) to the correspondence? 3.
What records it goes on?

 

[Snegianna]

How many journeys do they think they made, and over what period?

...Well that one journey

 

[najaB]

...Well that one journey

Just so that we're clear, you earlier said

Didn't realise at first, but carried on using

Which reads, to me at least, like there was more than one journey involved.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In the scale of offences, this is fairly small, and I think that ForTheLoveOf's comment at post #12 is likely to be accurate. But this is obviously a matter which is worrying your friend. So what I would suggest is for your friend to write to

Transport for London Customer Service
4th Floor
14 Pier Walk
London SE10 0ES

And in that letter
- Explain what happened and when
- give their regular address
- offer to pay the cost of the journey(s) that weren't paid for, and any costs that Transport for London (TfL) have faced.

TfL may then write back offering a settlement, or your friend may never hear from them again.

There can be no guarantee that TfL will agree a settlement, and once they have your friend's contact details, TfL would then be in a position to go to court. But everything will be being done in the open, and your friend will not feel that they are running away from their responsibilities. So this also means that there will be nothing to prevent your friend coming back to the UK at any time.

If TfL do want to go to court, they have up to six months to do so. So it won't be until June 2019 that your friend knows whether or not they will be in the clear.

 

[Snegianna]

In the scale of offences, this is fairly small, and I think that ForTheLoveOf's comment at post #12 is likely to be accurate. But this is obviously a matter which is worrying your friend. So what I would suggest is for your friend to write to

Transport for London Customer Service
4th Floor
14 Pier Walk
London SE10 0ES

And in that letter
- Explain what happened and when
- give their regular address
- offer to pay the cost of the journey(s) that weren't paid for, and any costs that Transport for London (TfL) have faced.

TfL may then write back offering a settlement, or your friend may never hear from them again.

There can be no guarantee that TfL will agree a settlement, and once they have your friend's contact details, TfL would then be in a position to go to court. But everything will be being done in the open, and your friend will not feel that they are running away from their responsibilities. So this also means that there will be nothing to prevent your friend coming back to the UK at any time.

If TfL do want to go to court, they have up to six months to do so. So it won't be until June 2019 that your friend knows whether or not they will be in the clear.

Thank you very much -Think you captured the essence of it - they actuality very law abiding and jerk to cooperate! ... Should tfl desire to go to court- with them not being residing in the U.K. -Would they need to be present ?

 

[Snegianna]

Thank you very much -Think you captured the essence of it - they actuality very law abiding and jerk to cooperate! ... Should tfl desire to go to court- with them not being residing in the U.K. -Would they need to be present ?

Aplolgies meant "keen to cooperate

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Should tfl desire to go to court- with them not being residing in the U.K. -Would they need to be present ?

According to the document that I have found here, if matters get as far as court and your friends want to plead guilty, they can do that by sending a letter.

Do I have to attend the court in person?
No. If you are pleading guilty, you can complete the relevant form included with the
Single Justice Notice or Requisition and return it to the court, along with the means
form on which you state your financial incomings and outgoings.

 

[Snegianna]

According to the document that I have found here, if matters get as far as court and your friends want to plead guilty, they can do that by sending a letter.

Oh dear ! Somebody mentioned that pleading guilty is basically not ideal ...

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Oh dear ! Somebody mentioned that pleading guilty is basically not ideal ...

Not, as far as I can see, in this thread.

I am not a lawyer, but if what you said in your first post was accurate:

They have been stopped by inspector whilst using someone else's 60+ oyster.

then they are guilty of travelling without a valid ticket, and pleading guilty would be appropriate, as well as convenient.

 

[najaB]

I am not a lawyer, but if what you said in your first post was accurate…then they are guilty of travelling without a valid ticket, and pleading guilty would be appropriate, as well as convenient.

You are correct that they have no grounds to fight their corner, however it would be best to admit their guilt while dealing with the TOC/TfL (to achieve a settlement) before pleading guilty (in order to reduce their court-imposed fine).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You are correct that they have no grounds to fight their corner, however it would be best to admit their guilt while dealing with the TOC/TfL (to achieve a settlement) before pleading guilty (in order to reduce their court-imposed fine).

Yes. I think that is what I should have said. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Snegianna]

well they may have given address of the aparthotel they were staying and their maiden name (recently married so might have done so out of shock as not used to new name ). So ended up with a mish-mash of temp address and maiden name. And now absolutely confused and don't know what to do to resolve the situation.

 

[Snegianna]

You are correct that they have no grounds to fight their corner, however it would be best to admit their guilt while dealing with the TOC/TfL (to achieve a settlement) before pleading guilty (in order to reduce their court-imposed fine).

Thank you! To be fair - they would get whatever penalty would be required together somehow and pay it. But under no circumstances they can afford a record....so that is most definitely their utmost concerns.

 

[najaB]

But under no circumstances they can afford a record....so that is most definitely their utmost concerns.

I'm still not clear as to how many journeys they made. Was it just the one or possibly more?

 

[Snegianna]

Thank you! To be fair - they would get whatever penalty would be required together somehow and pay it. But under no circumstances they can afford a record....so that is most definitely their utmost concerns.

Hence why

I'm still not clear as to how many journeys they made. Was it just the one or possibly more?

One as far as I'm aware. Sorry my language might have been confusing - was meant to say the realised too late on the day it was a different card. And didn't think it 'd make any difference.

 

[najaB]

One as far as I'm aware. Sorry my language might have been confusing - was meant to say the realised too late on the day it was a different card. And didn't think it 'd make any difference.

No need to apologise, it's easy for meaning to get muddled in written form.

So, for clarity, your friend was stopped while using someone else's registered Oyster card. They had made only that one journey, and did not have another Oyster card on them. They gave the RPO their temporary UK address, but they will be leaving (or have already left) that address.

I'm not going to give advice that is specific to Oyster and TfL, but I'm sure that the Oyster specialists (e.g. @MikeWh ) will be able to advise appropriately.

The general advice is to cooperate with the TOC/TfL, don't attempt to shift blame and seek to settle without involving the courts.

 

[6Gman]

Long story short. They borrowed the card from someone they were visiting by accident (along with some store loyalty cards they needed for the day). Didn't realise at first, but carried on using as had no clue ab the difference btw a regular Oyster card and a subsidized card.

I'm finding this part of your account a little difficult to follow.

They are visitors from abroad (?) and were staying at a hotel. They visited someone and "by accident" borrowed an Oyster Card, along with some store cards. Was the idea that they could use the loyalty cards to the benefit of themselves (by discount) or the holder (by earning points)? Was it that the Oyster Card was with the store cards, and that's how they acquired it "by accident"?

Does the Oyster Card have the owner's name on it? I know some Oyster Cards don't - my wife and I have identical Oyster Cards, but they have slightly different entitlements so we have written our initials on them to ensure we don't accidentally use each other's cards.