Used expired Railcard

[Polo5959]

Hello,

Two months ago I took the train to go from Liverpool street station in London to Stansted airport. I took a ticket with a railcard as I though my railcard was still valid. when I had a control I realised my railcard was expired since 3weeks.

I was prepared to pay a fine but instead the person kept me on the side 40min to fill papers and check address and everything...

yesterday I receive a fine of 87.05 (a settlement of £80 toward our costs incurred plus £7.05 fare avoided)

I understand that I need to pay a fine for this but I feel like this fine is too high for what it is. Cost of ticket without railcard was £17).

Do you think it's normal? and if not what way can I appeal this fine?

Thanks,

Paul

 

[JBuchananGB]

This is normal. In fact as rail penalties go, it is lenient. Recommendation: prompt payment.

 

[Polo5959]

Ok. What bothers me is that a person who passed through the control while I was doing all the papers had no ticket and was fined for this but he had to pay on the spot, and the total was something around £40, I had the paying machine just next to me.

I said to the guy that It's ok I can pay a fine like the guy next to me, I don't mind paying for a fine for having no tickets but he insisted saying it was different because I have a ticket but it's just the wrong rail card (no railcard in this case as it was expired). So it doesn't make any sense to pay the double for having no railcard than having no tickets.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Also seems unusual just to ask you to pay back the incorrectly claimed £7.05 discount (on top of the £80.00 administration fee), rather than the full £20.70 cost of an undiscounted Anytime Single from London to Stansted Airport.

As @JBuchananGB has posted upthread, best to chalk this one up to experience, and settle up. You're unlikely to get anywhere by complaining that some other punter may have been treated differently.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you have an expired railcard the company will often want to take your details and investigate it further, to see how many times you have travelled without a discount.

Asking to pay a Penalty Fare is not usually a productive idea, as hardened fare evaders will almost always ask this question to dispose of their indiscretion there and then and avoid further investigation. Unfortunately, by the letter of the law, by travelling without a valid railcard and claiming the discount you did commit a criminal offence and the settlement fee is meant to cover their costs in investigate the extent or otherwise of your indiscretions.

 

[Darandio]

So it doesn't make any sense to pay the double for having no railcard than having no tickets.

With no valid railcard you had an invalid ticket, it's equivalent to holding no ticket at all.

Whilst you may feel the settlement is high and unjust, the advice as above is to pay it.

 

[skyhigh]

Do you think it's normal?

That's a relatively small fee to pay compared to others that have been reported on here.

and if not what way can I appeal this fine?

There's no appeals process. You're welcome to tell them you won't pay the settlement offer, but they will simply take you to court (and win, as you've committed a criminal offence) which will give you a criminal conviction and a greater amount to pay to settle.

I don't mind paying for a fine for having no tickets but he insisted saying it was different because I have a ticket but it's just the wrong rail card (no railcard in this case as it was expired). So it doesn't make any sense to pay the double for having no railcard than having no tickets.

They would have wanted to investigate your purchase history to see if you'd bought other tickets in that 3 weeks. You might feel the settlement offer is high, but you don't really have an option. There's no automatic entitlement to a Penalty Fare.

 

[Birmingham]

Ok. What bothers me is that a person who passed through the control while I was doing all the papers had no ticket and was fined for this but he had to pay on the spot, and the total was something around £40, I had the paying machine just next to me.

I said to the guy that It's ok I can pay a fine like the guy next to me, I don't mind paying for a fine for having no tickets but he insisted saying it was different because I have a ticket but it's just the wrong rail card (no railcard in this case as it was expired). So it doesn't make any sense to pay the double for having no railcard than having no tickets.

It's an interesting point to be fair as it implies had you not shown the falsely railcard-discounted ticket - as if you had no ticket at all - you may have had a more favourable outcome. However, you obviously didn't know you were even committing that offence until your ticket was checked!

 

[AlterEgo]

It's an interesting point to be fair as it implies had you not shown the falsely railcard-discounted ticket - as if you had no ticket at all - you may have had a more favourable outcome. However, you obviously didn't know you were even committing that offence until your ticket was checked!

Yes this is the real sickener. Someone with no ticket who never buys one can’t realistically have their travel history investigated, yet someone with a history of buying tickets (just the “wrong” ones) gets the TOC audit. Doesn’t seem fair, but it is what it is.

 

[island]

I’m afraid settlement offers aren’t up for negotiation – cough up or you’ll be headed to court and at least double the bill.