USA Pre-clearance facilities in the UK

[signed]

So transiting through Shannon or Dublin are perhaps better options, on the way there at least.

Or Brussels in a few years, though I don't know what airlines will fly Brussels to the US.

Sadly the UK is not US's baby and doesn't get a Pre-Clearance facility

 

[Tetchytyke]

Sadly the UK is not US's baby and doesn't get a Pre-Clearance facility

It's almost certainly more that we won't pay the cost of having the infrastructure put in for it. The US have been trying to expand the scheme for years, for very similar reasons as to why we like having juxtaposed border controls in France and Belgium.

Heathrow T5 would be a perfect location for a pre-clearance facility but we know how HAL are basically allergic to spending money.

 

[najaB]

Sadly the UK is not US's baby and doesn't get a Pre-Clearance facility

There have been rumours that it may be coming to Edinburgh in the near future.

US border control could soon be moved to UK airports – with Edinburgh setting the pace.

“Preclearance” of American frontier formalities has been commonplace for decades for travellers from Canada and Ireland to the US.

Dublin airport is a thriving hub for transatlantic flights, with US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) staff processing passengers ahead of their flights – allowing the traveller to leave the destination airport immediately on arrival, or board another plane.

But no UK airport has set up such facilities, despite repeated rumours that they might.

Now the chief executive of Edinburgh airport has told The Independent he is talking to the US and UK governments about the “great opportunity” to establish preclearance in Scotland.

This UK airport is hoping to be the first to offer ‘preclearance’ on US flights

Exclusive: American frontier officials could be stationed at Scottish airport ‘two to three years after an agreement is signed’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[jfollows]

There have been rumours that it may be coming to Edinburgh in the near future.

This UK airport is hoping to be the first to offer ‘preclearance’ on US flights

Exclusive: American frontier officials could be stationed at Scottish airport ‘two to three years after an agreement is signed’

www.independent.co.uk

Manchester was rumoured in 2015, so I’ll only believe it when I see it.

 

[najaB]

Manchester was rumoured in 2015, so I’ll only believe it when I see it.

Indeed, the only proof is US shoes on the ground. But the fact that they're even in negotiations proves that we're not the red-headed stepchild as suggested above.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Sure, with Aer Lingus though I wish I'd been able to give BA001 a go.

Oh definitely. Maybe it will come back when hybrid jets are a thing and it can be marketed as a more environmentally friendly version of business travel.

Or Brussels in a few years, though I don't know what airlines will fly Brussels to the US.

Sadly the UK is not US's baby and doesn't get a Pre-Clearance facility

I don't think it's particularly needed if you wish to visit from the UK, Dublin is only a short hop from most UK airports. I'm not sure a direct flight from the UK to US would be much more environmentally friendly than the UK-IE hop + the IE-US flight, especially if it's on Ryanair with their load factor and emissions per passenger.

 

[najaB]

I'm not sure a direct flight from the UK to US would be much more environmentally friendly than the UK-IE hop + the IE-US flight, especially if it's on Ryanair with their load factor and emissions per passenger.

Obviously depends on the airline and aircraft but the most polluting part of a flight is the take-off and climb to cruising altitude, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work out worse.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Obviously depends on the airline and aircraft but the most polluting part of a flight is the take-off and climb to cruising altitude, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work out worse.

Fair enough. Ferry + flight may be better than, hahahaha.

 

[jonnycoleraine]

Oh definitely. Maybe it will come back when hybrid jets are a thing and it can be marketed as a more environmentally friendly version of business travel.

I don't think it's particularly needed if you wish to visit from the UK, Dublin is only a short hop from most UK airports. I'm not sure a direct flight from the UK to US would be much more environmentally friendly than the UK-IE hop + the IE-US flight, especially if it's on Ryanair with their load factor and emissions per passenger.

It's never going to be worth it.

A UK to ROI flight (esp with eg Ryanair) as a non guaranteed connection, any delay messes up the transatlantic leg and you're completely stuck.

Never mind even if it is guaranteed and a delay still costs you a day, never worth it. Fly direct if at all possible.

 

[signed]

I don't think it's particularly needed if you wish to visit from the UK, Dublin is only a short hop from most UK airports. I'm not sure a direct flight from the UK to US would be much more environmentally friendly than the UK-IE hop + the IE-US flight, especially if it's on Ryanair with their load factor and emissions per passenger.

Wouldn't that add like 2 or 3h if everything goes well?

 

[AlastairFraser]

It's never going to be worth it.

A UK to ROI flight (esp with eg Ryanair) as a non guaranteed connection, any delay messes up the transatlantic leg and you're completely stuck.

Never mind even if it is guaranteed and a delay still costs you a day, never worth it. Fly direct if at all possible.

I suppose it only works out if you leave plenty of time! Although from your username, it seems that isn't an issue for you as you can just drive or take the train and coach over the border to Dublin Airport.

Wouldn't that add like 2 or 3h if everything goes well?

It depends where you are in the UK. Often a flight across to Dublin from a local airport is quicker than driving or taking public transport to one with a transatlantic connection, and then you save the time at the US end from the preclearance.

For example, the area of South East Wales around Cardiff has over 1.5 million people, and I believe the nearest airport with transatlantic flights would be Heathrow (2hr 30 min drive/2hr20 min train from Cardiff or less from Newport). Most of the region is within 1hr of Cardiff/Bristol Airport by road, it's around a 45 min flight and you could well be passing US preclearance by the time you reach the terminal at Heathrow.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wouldn't that add like 2 or 3h if everything goes well?

Depends. Aer Lingus Regional have a fairly comprehensive network from smaller regional UK airports to Dublin with through ticketing available into Aer Lingus trans-Atlantic long haul. Flying, say, Leeds-Dublin-New York is probably as quick as travelling to Manchester and picking up the Aer Lingus direct flight and you save the immigration queue on arrival.

 

[nlogax]

Manchester was rumoured, when I last checked Edinburgh still is..fair to say I'm losing any hope that this will happen to any UK airport.

 

[Chester1]

It's funny that some members first reaction was to knock their own country / or it's relationship with the US. Heathrow and Manchester won't pay for pre clearance because the airlines don't think they can recoup the cost of higher charges. The option has been offered by the US government for over a decade. Dublin and Shannon are in better locations for acting as the European pre clearance hubs and the business case stacks up for them. Shannon even gets pre clearance passengers while the London City Airport BA flight refuel on way to New York.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Shannon even gets pre clearance passengers while the London City Airport BA flight refuel on way to New York.

BA001 died with Covid. It’s long gone and the A318s are long gone.

 

[thejuggler]

It's never going to be worth it.

A UK to ROI flight (esp with eg Ryanair) as a non guaranteed connection, any delay messes up the transatlantic leg and you're completely stuck.

Never mind even if it is guaranteed and a delay still costs you a day, never worth it. Fly direct if at all possible.

I've done it via Dublin from Leeds and would choose that every time over the trip to Manchester and a wait of unknown hours at JFK doing border checks. Border checks at Dublin take about an hour.

Newark is quieter than JFK and flying an A321 means fewer passengers to board and unload, less luggage and in flight service is very quick.

 

[Chester1]

I've done it via Dublin from Leeds and would choose that every time over the trip to Manchester and a wait of unknown hours at JFK doing border checks. Border checks at Dublin take about an hour.

Newark is quieter than JFK and flying an A321 means fewer passengers to board and unload, less luggage and in flight service is very quick.

How much extra would you pay? Manchester's improved terminal 2 is designed with provision for pre clearance and separate departure area but there isn't uptake from the airlines. Dublin and Shannon appear to have saturated the market for passengers that are keen on pre clearance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2024 ==

BA001 died with Covid. It’s long gone and the A318s are long gone.

Oops, I completely forgot about that!

 

[AlastairFraser]

How much extra would you pay? Manchester's improved terminal 2 is designed with provision for pre clearance and separate departure area but there isn't uptake from the airlines. Dublin and Shannon appear to have saturated the market for passengers that are keen on pre clearance.

A cursory check of Skyscanner reveals Heathrow and Dublin/Shannon prices to NY are broadly similar most of the time (Dublin/Shannon sometimes being £50 cheaper).

I don't know about either European airport to other US destinations, but I don't think it would be significantly more expensive to travel from Manchester if US preclearance facilities were installed, than the current preclearance flights from Dublin/Shannon. It would attract a lot of passengers from all over GB (including from London - maybe US flight frequency from Heathrow would drop and free up space there).

 

[Chester1]

A cursory check of Skyscanner reveals Heathrow and Dublin/Shannon prices to NY are broadly similar most of the time (Dublin/Shannon sometimes being £50 cheaper).

I don't know about either European airport to other US destinations, but I don't think it would be significantly more expensive to travel from Manchester if US preclearance facilities were installed, than the current preclearance flights from Dublin/Shannon. It would attract a lot of passengers from all over GB (including from London - maybe US flight frequency from Heathrow would drop and free up space there).

The prices are due to other factors e.g. Dublin and Shannon are nearer to the US than Heathrow and Manchester. The airports have to pay for the facilities and staffing of pre clearance. These get passed onto the airlines who pass it to passengers. The US government has a long list of airports it would like to roll out pre clearance to but it has had few takers. Dublin and Shannon are well located for connecting with rest of Europe and have a reasonable sized direct market. There is probably a good economy of scale too.

I would like to see pre clearance at Manchester because I would probably use it and it's a good selling point. MAG have done the maths and haven't taken things further.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The prices are due to other factors e.g. Dublin and Shannon are nearer to the US than Heathrow and Manchester. The airports have to pay for the facilities and staffing of pre clearance. These get passed onto the airlines who pass it to passengers. The US government has a long list of airports it would like to roll out pre clearance to but it has had few takers. Dublin and Shannon are well located for connecting with rest of Europe and have a reasonable sized direct market. There is probably a good economy of scale too.

I would like to see pre clearance at Manchester because I would probably use it and it's a good selling point. MAG have done the maths and haven't taken things further.

I don't think that Dublin or Shannon are that much nearer for it to be a significant difference. The thing with Manchester is that it has the potential to take a huge chunk of the big UK-US market, at a lower cost than Heathrow does. We'll see if it becomes viable at some point. Maybe EMA would be a better option for the central location, potential to grow and lower expansion costs.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've done it via Dublin from Leeds and would choose that every time over the trip to Manchester and a wait of unknown hours at JFK doing border checks. Border checks at Dublin take about an hour.

The border checks at Dublin also take place in what would otherwise be 'dead' time, as you have to be at the airport that early anyway. The time you spend in the airport queue at Dublin is time you'd have spent in the airport anyway.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Manchester was rumoured in 2015, so I’ll only believe it when I see it.

Indeed. I was excited at the time but it looks like I will now be retired by the time it happens. As has been said above, with the recent and ongoing expansion at Manchester airport it is certainly built with pre clearance in mind.

 

[edwin_m]

Heathrow probably has enough passengers to spread the cost of pre-clearance so the extra per passenger isn't too much. However, financially their only reason to do that would be to increase passenger numbers, but they don't have the capacity to carry them.

For Manchester those economies of scale are much less, making the economics that much more challenging. It has more population in its surface transport catchment than Dublin, but lack's Dublin's comprehensive feeder flight network, and residents of Ireland probably have more propensity than Brits to travel to the USA due to historic family ties. CdG or Schipol have some of the same advantages but probably lower trip rates to the USA and for the British market they have the disadvantages of doubleback and EU entry/exit requirements rather than CTA.

 

[Chester1]

The side deal with unionists following the Windsor Framework requires the UK government to look into pre clearance at Belfast International. I can't see it being viable there without UK taxpayer funding. It would encourage some US - Belfast flights. It would be a better connecting airport for non British non Irish citizens than Dublin or Shannon. It's more likely in the next few years than Heathrow or Manchester.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Heathrow probably has enough passengers to spread the cost of pre-clearance so the extra per passenger isn't too much.

They'd have to do it in three of the terminals though: they couldn't do T5 (BA) without doing T3 (Virgin/AA), and they couldn't do T3 without doing T2 (United).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2024 ==

The side deal with unionists following the Windsor Framework requires the UK government to look into pre clearance at Belfast International. I can't see it being viable there without UK taxpayer funding.

Since Virgin Atlantic pulled out a couple of years ago, Belfast International has one flight a week- a TUI charter to Florida, and only in the summer- to the USA.

 

[Mojo]

They'd have to do it in three of the terminals though: they couldn't do T5 (BA) without doing T3 (Virgin/AA), and they couldn't do T3 without doing T2 (United).

There was speculation / rumours in early 2020 (pre lockdown) that Murican Airlines could move all its flights into T5C alongside BA’s US flights, and creating a new lounge on the mezzanine along with US Preclearance facilities. BA would then operate more routes from T3 in the space previously occupied by AA.

 

[Chester1]

Since Virgin Atlantic pulled out a couple of years ago, Belfast International has one flight a week- a TUI charter to Florida, and only in the summer- to the USA.

I guess any preclearance deal between the US and UK government would have to specify a minimum number of flights at each airport to make sure its viable. I think the hope behind the proposal is that Belfast International would gain connecting passengers travelling from GB airports. The American staff could be Dublin staff sent for a shift. The government has changed in Westminster since and I doubt it's a priority for Labour.

 

[RailWonderer]

Oh definitely. Maybe it will come back when hybrid jets are a thing and it can be marketed as a more environmentally friendly version of business travel.

More likely BA1 and BA2 return if BA orders the Boom Overture if it's completed. Japan Airlines, United and American have already placed orders for it.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Sadly the UK is not US's baby and doesn't get a Pre-Clearance facility

The US is very open to having these facilities abroad, so it's not that. It's just simply about cost and space, nothing more.

CdG or Schipol have some of the same advantages but probably lower trip rates to the USA and for the British market they have the disadvantages of doubleback and EU entry/exit requirements rather than CTA.

There's no real issue caused by EU entry/exit requirements in transit from the perspective of the British market.

 

[Flying Snail]

The border checks at Dublin also take place in what would otherwise be 'dead' time, as you have to be at the airport that early anyway. The time you spend in the airport queue at Dublin is time you'd have spent in the airport anyway.

That is not true, extra time is needed for the US unpleasantness in addition to the regular security theatre.