USA Election

[Butts]

People calling themselves elite on here still can't see that they are the sole reason for Brexit and Trump.

I don't think that's quite correct.

The metropolitan elite or whatever else you like to call them live in a bit of a bubble that isolates them from the discontent felt by their less fortunate fellow citizens.

In their world misogyny, homophobia, racism and xeonophobia no longer exist or are at best covertly concealed and not expressed publicly. As they rarely come into contact with anyone who dissents from their idealistic utopia and the media largely reflects the same views they think the aforementioned are something from the history books.

However in the "real world" most of the less salacious human prejudices are alive and kicking. Whether this is down to ignorance or entrenched attitudes is a matter of opinion.

This results in the odd "wake up call" such as the riots in 2011 and the Brexit and Trump "electoral shocks".

Dumbfounded they flail about seeking an answer as to why this could happen not daring to confront the reality and reasons for the proletarian unrest.

 

[miami]

The Ku Klux Klan are hoping to have a victory parade to celebrate Trump's win in North Carolina. Any surprise there?

The left have spent two years saying anyone who votes trump is a bigot and a racist and whatever else. It's about as realistic as £350m a week for the NHS, but it sinks into people's subconscious.

We now have a majority* who voted trump and are therefore the exact thing we've warned about. Obviously the real racists are going to use this as prof and deep down belief that they have a large support.

It's exactly the same as with brexit, and the us didn't learn.


* yes I know it's only 48% of those that voted and not even a plurality, it's still 50 million people.

 

[AlterEgo]

The left have spent two years saying anyone who votes trump is a bigot and a racist and whatever else. It's about as realistic as £350m a week for the NHS, but it sinks into people's subconscious.

We now have a majority* who voted trump and are therefore the exact thing we've warned about. Obviously the real racists are going to use this as prof and deep down belief that they have a large support.

It's exactly the same as with brexit, and the us didn't learn.


* yes I know it's only 48% of those that voted and not even a plurality, it's still 50 million people.

Valid points, but I wish people would see that the political divide isn't between right and left wing any more.

What are left and right wing these days? Are those terms appropriate?

The political divide relevant over the last few years has been between internationalism/open borders/globalisation and nationalism/protectionism. In many cases it is hard to define parties or politicians as being solely on one side of the line. Corbyn is not a nationalist, but he is a protectionist for example.

There are many on what people call the right wing who also denounced Trump. Speaking out against perceived bigotry is not the sole preserve of "left wing" politicians.

Until people realise that the lens through which they view politics is skewing the image, then current trends will be misunderstood.

 

[EM2]

I don't think that's quite correct.

The metropolitan elite or whatever else you like to call them live in a bit of a bubble that isolates them from the discontent felt by their less fortunate fellow citizens.

In their world misogyny, homophobia, racism and xeonophobia no longer exist or are at best covertly concealed and not expressed publicly. As they rarely come into contact with anyone who dissents from their idealistic utopia and the media largely reflects the same views they think the aforementioned are something from the history books.

I don't think that's quite correct either.
Depending on who you mean when you talk about the 'metropolitan elite', I'd say that they are fully aware of misogyny, racism, homophobia and xenophobia because they're all over the Sun, the Mail and the Express. You only have to see the backlash that Gary Lineker got on Twitter after his comments about child refugees.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't think that's quite correct either.
Depending on who you mean when you talk about the 'metropolitan elite', I'd say that they are fully aware of misogyny, racism, homophobia and xenophobia because they're all over the Sun, the Mail and the Express. You only have to see the backlash that Gary Lineker got on Twitter after his comments about child refugees.

When people talk about the "metropolitan elite", they essentially talk about people who work in cities who have a good education. It's nothing more refined than that.

 

[EM2]

When people talk about the "metropolitan elite", they essentially talk about people who work in cities who have a good education. It's nothing more refined than that.

Well, that's me out then. I work in a small town and got 8 'O' Levels

 

[miami]

Well, that's me out then. I work in a small town and got 8 'O' Levels

I thought 8 O-Levels is about equivalent of a 21st century Masters



Today's updates on the farce is that Trump isn't even going to bother trying to be president, "splitting his time" between the White House and his New York flat. This is by far the bigger fear than a Trump presidency, it's a Pence presidency

 

[Groningen]

There are some voices to make Nigel Farage ambassador of the USA. Well; an ambassador should be indepedent from the USA (or any other country) and this will be clearly not be the case.

 

[DarloRich]

When people talk about the "metropolitan elite", they essentially talk about people who work in cities who have a good education. It's nothing more refined than that.

what if i have a good education but live in a large town? Was it different when i had a good education but lived in a village? This is all very confusing.

 

[AlterEgo]

what if i have a good education but live in a large town? Was it different when i had a good education but lived in a village? This is all very confusing.

Perhaps there could be badges we could wear?

 

[overthewater]

Looks like Turnout is actually higher than 2012, but both parties will get less than what Obama got.

 

[Bodie]

Valid points, but I wish people would see that the political divide isn't between right and left wing any more.

What are left and right wing these days? Are those terms appropriate?

The political divide relevant over the last few years has been between internationalism/open borders/globalisation and nationalism/protectionism. In many cases it is hard to define parties or politicians as being solely on one side of the line. Corbyn is not a nationalist, but he is a protectionist for example.

There are many on what people call the right wing who also denounced Trump. Speaking out against perceived bigotry is not the sole preserve of "left wing" politicians.

Until people realise that the lens through which they view politics is skewing the image, then current trends will be misunderstood.

Could not put it better than this. An excellent analysis.

 

[ainsworth74]

Looks like Turnout is actually higher than 2012, but both parties will get less than what Obama got.

Indeed. Something that I don't think I've really seen anyone touch on is that third party candidates gained an extra 4m votes on 2012 so it shouldn't be surprising that even on an increased turnout both parties performed worse than 2012 in terms of the popular vote.

 

[Groningen]

So the racist are climbing out of the basement.

Pamela Ramsey Taylor from West Virgina:
It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified first lady in the White House, I’m tired of seeing an ape in heels.

And the democratic Clay mayor Beverly Whaling has as a comment: Just made my day, Pam.

Seems both have quit their jobs.

 

[Butts]

So the racist are climbing out of the basement.

Pamela Ramsey Taylor from West Virgina:
It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified first lady in the White House, I’m tired of seeing an ape in heels.

And the democratic Clay mayor Beverly Whaling has as a comment: Just made my day, Pam.

Seems both have quit their jobs.

Classic Ash - a great Album by Wishbone Ash

 

[Tim R-T-C]

The metropolitan elite or whatever else you like to call them live in a bit of a bubble that isolates them from the discontent felt by their less fortunate fellow citizens.

Most people live in a bubble of sorts.

It was interesting in the run-up to the Brexit vote, a letter in the Telegraph saying that the writer didn't think the 'remain' camp had a chance, since everyone they knew was voting leave, the inference being that therefore everyone in the country must be.

In the real world, people associate and often live/work with people of a similar social status and so in many cases, sharing similar world views.

 

[DerekC]

I wonder whether we haven't yet reached the crucial stage. What happens when Brexit visibly makes us poorer and Trump fails to deiiver on his promises to spread the wealth around? The danger is that the agenda gets captured by those even further to the right. But there is lots of hope. Whilst hyped by the media as "overwhelming", "sweeping" and so on, both Brexit nor Trump were close in terms of numbers of votes cast. Therefore around half of voters (bear with the lack of precision) had alternative views. Liberal values are not dead - they have got a bloody nose, but can live to fight another day - and that's what needs to be done.

PS - it's good to see a thread which is a sensible discussion with no insults thrown around.

 

[EM2]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...er-speech-npi/508379/?utm_source=atlfbcomment

'Hail Trump!': White Nationalists Salute the President Elect

“Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!”

That’s how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as “an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world.”

Spencer has popularized the term “alt-right” to describe the movement he leads. Spencer has said his dream is “a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans,” and has called for “peaceful ethnic cleansing.”

For most of the day, a parade of speakers discussed their ideology in relatively anodyne terms, putting a presentable face on their agenda. But after dinner, when most journalists had already departed, Spencer rose and delivered a speech to his followers dripping with anti-Semitism, and leaving no doubt as to what he actually seeks. He referred to the mainstream media as “Lügenpresse,” a term he said he was borrowing from “the original German”; the Nazis used the word to attack their critics in the press.

“America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity,” Spencer said. “It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”

The audience offered cheers, applause, and enthusiastic Nazi salutes.

There is a video in the link.

 

[Groningen]

On Monday, the restaurant (Maggiano’s Little Italy) explained on Facebook that the reservation was made under a different name and that they were unaware that a white-nationalist group had booked the private event on their premises, and pledged to donate the proceeds to the Anti-Defamation League:

On Friday night, Maggiano’s in Friendship Heights was the inadvertent site of a protest that caused us to close our restaurant to protect the safety of our Teammates and Guests.

The protesters were upset because of a banquet we were hosting for a group called the National Policy Institute (NPI). This was a last minute booking made Friday afternoon, and the reservation was made under a different name, therefore we were not aware that NPI was dining with us or what the group represents. After the event, an attendee sent a tweet in which she made a “Sieg Heil salute” in support of Hitler and white supremacy. This expression of support of Hitler is extremely offensive to us, as our restaurant is home to Teammates and Guests of every race, religion and cultural background.

We want to sincerely apologize to the community of Friendship Heights for inadvertently hosting this meeting, which resulted in hateful sentiment. We want you to know that at the suggestion of one of our Guests, we are donating the profits from our restaurant sales on Friday, $10,000, to the DC office of the Anti-Defamation League, which for decades has been working to bring people together in peace and understanding.

Source: Vanity Fair

Did Hitler still won the war 70 years later. It will be a kind of racist 8 years to come in the USA.

 

[Busaholic]

Source: Vanity Fair

Did Hitler still won the war 70 years later. It will be a kind of racist 8 years to come in the USA.

Why do you say 8, as a matter of interest?

 

[Butts]

If Donald Trump does want to expel illegal immigrants from Mexico or anywhere else in the World is that really so sensational ?

Would we not hopefully want to do the same in this Country ?

 

[AlterEgo]

If Donald Trump does want to expel illegal immigrants from Mexico or anywhere else in the World is that really so sensational ?

Would we not hopefully want to do the same in this Country ?

Americans view immigration quite differently. There's a long tradition of amnesty.

https://www.usamnesty.org

 

[miami]

Obama kicked out 2.5m in 7 years, trumps raising that by 10% to 3 million in 8 years.

 

[furnessvale]

Obama kicked out 2.5m in 7 years, trumps raising that by 10% to 3 million in 8 years.

I wonder how many are the same people simply recrossing the border to carry on where they left off?

 

[Butts]

I wonder how many are the same people simply recrossing the border to carry on where they left off?

Does anyone seek to escape the USA and enter Mexico, other than criminals ?

 

[me123]

Possibly many people will be trekking South once Drumpf starts "running" the country.

Anyway, I thought Farage wanted his life back. Now Drumpf is trying to publicly lobby for his f(r)iend to become UK ambassador to the US. Remarkably overt cronyism from a man whose campaign was against the corrupt political establishment.

 

[NSEFAN]

He was against the current establishment, nobody said he couldn't behave just as badly as them.

 

[miami]

He's against career politicians, despite being one himself for 17 years

 

[northwichcat]

On BBC News they went to a shot of Sajid Javid during Philip Hammond's speech today and I noticed whoever was sat behind him (his/her face wasn't shown) was holding an open book which said "Trump" on the front!

 

[Groningen]

Why do you say 8, as a matter of interest?

Canadians, Americans, British and a lot of others fought against Nazi Germany (and Italy) to get Nazis out. And now they have turned up in the home of the Free and the Brave.