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USA Election

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northwichcat

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Either way it's a done deal. Just like Brexit.

I do wonder if he might actually surprise people? Stranger things have happened.

Trump has been elected next US president.

The process for Brexit hasn't been started. All that's happened is there has been an advisory referendum on Brexit which told the government a narrow majority favour Brexit over Remain. The government are not obliged to carry out Brexit based on the referendum result and don't even know what form Brexit will take.
 
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NSEFAN

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ac6000cw said:
He started down that path with tax cuts to boost the economy, but later on slowly increased taxes again (but not to same level). It's 27 years since he left office so you can hardly blame him for the economic situation today. The UK debt situation is hardly stellar either...

Indeed, but the UK went down a similar route at roughly the same time, with Thatcher. It just seems funny to me that some people in the USA will elect a president based on a fear of some foreign bogeyman or secret new world order, but fail to realise that it's their fellow countrymen who trashed the economy and ruined their lives.
 
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Groningen

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So luckely Donald Trump will stop TIPP, because free trade is not where the world is waiting for. Get back into each others hole!
 

northwichcat

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According to a Trump supporter on the news Trump's going to stop immigrants coming over and changing America. He never mentioned he had a time machine that could take him back to 1600!
 

meridian2

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I'm pleased he's potentially not going to commit to the UN's climate change 'deal', a deal that very much in itself undermines their own principles.
 

kermit

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Passengers are advised to buckle up their seat belts. There is turbulence ahead.
 

ac6000cw

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Indeed, but the UK went down a similar route at roughly the same time, with Thatcher. It just seems funny to me that some people in the USA will elect a president based on a fear of some foreign bogeyman or secret new world order, but fail to realise that it's their fellow countrymen who trashed the economy and ruined their lives.

I think that's exactly why they did vote for Trump - it's the 'we need a change' thing, like when Reagan and Thatcher were elected (and we sure did need a change of some sort here in 1979).

I've travelled through some of the W.Virginia 'coal country' and Pennsylvania 'rust belt' communities - it's almost ghost town territory in places, so it's not hard to see the appeal of a populist like Trump to those who feel their voice isn't being heard in DC. As to whether the reality will measure up the rhetoric - I rather suspect they may be disappointed...
 

TheKnightWho

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I think that's exactly why they did vote for Trump - it's the 'we need a change' thing, like when Reagan and Thatcher were elected (and we sure did need a change of some sort here in 1979).

I've travelled through some of the W.Virginia 'coal country' and Pennsylvania 'rust belt' communities - it's almost ghost town territory in places, so it's not hard to see the appeal of a populist like Trump to those who feel their voice isn't being heard in DC. As to whether the reality will measure up the rhetoric - I rather suspect they may be disappointed...

It will be exactly as with Brexit: any problems with be the fault of anyone but themselves or their leaders. People rarely ever want to admit they got it wrong.
 

96tommy

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I woke up at 1am to watch it and haven't slept since, one of the best nights of television I can remember. 2016 is certainly the year of the underdog and the secret voter, people were almost embarrased to say they had voted for Brexit just like people were to say they would vote Trump.
 

Clip

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Hopefully this result and Brexit will put an end to the horrendous TTIP deal


Every cloud and that.


Been a funny day on this mind you with people going 'OMG Trump has his finger on the nuclear button we're all going to die' with them people forgetting that Clinton had said she would shoot down Russian planes over Syria which wouldve got us into a terrible position.
 

miami

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So looks like more people voted for Clinton than Trump, but that's democracy for you
 

J-2739

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I have this strange feeling inside me, as if I'm not existing properly.

Same happened with the Brexit vote... :|
 

RichmondCommu

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Been a funny day on this mind you with people going 'OMG Trump has his finger on the nuclear button we're all going to die' with them people forgetting that Clinton had said she would shoot down Russian planes over Syria which wouldve got us into a terrible position.

Well exactly! At least with Donald Trump relations between the US and Russia might improve; lets face it they could barely get any worse.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Only in the very strange and odd American sense of the word.

The US system is pretty odd, but the end result could easily happen in Britain.

UKIP scored 3.8 million votes in the 2015 election, the same at Lib Dem and SNP combined, yet the latter took home 64 seats, UKIP just one.

The SLDP took home 3 seats with just 99,809 votes. The Greens took 1.2 million for just one seat.

However, PR based systems have their own myriad of issues.
 

Tetchytyke

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So looks like more people voted for Clinton than Trump, but that's democracy for you

Exactly the same here with an almost identical system of FPTP.

But I thought FPTP was brilliant because it prevented the lunatics from taking over the asylum?
 

GatwickDepress

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I woke up at 1am to watch it and haven't slept since, one of the best nights of television I can remember. 2016 is certainly the year of the underdog and the secret voter, people were almost embarrased to say they had voted for Brexit just like people were to say they would vote Trump.
Year of the underdog? I certainly wouldn't call Trump an underdog...
 

RichmondCommu

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Only in the very strange and odd American sense of the word.

That's why Donald Trump knew he only had to target specific states where as Hilary Clinton tried to go for the lot. As much as I can't stand him Donald Trump fought a very clever campaign through his use of twitter and saying the right things to the right people.
 

Tetchytyke

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Trump got fewer votes than McCain in 2008.

The issue is the democrat vote collapsed, staying at home instead of voting for either side. Of course, protections about voter registration were removed for this election, which is a trick Mr Cameron recently pulled in time for the Brexit vote...
 

125Forever

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So luckely Donald Trump will stop TIPP, because free trade is not where the world is waiting for. Get back into each others hole!

I don't think that anybody wants TTIP - even the Greens and UKIP (who are normally poles apart) agreed that this was a bad idea.

TTIP would have meant that, among other things, Big Pharma would have been able to sue the NHS and UK Governments for not allowing their drugs to be sold.
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Trump got fewer votes than McCain in 2008.

The issue is the democrat vote collapsed, staying at home instead of voting for either side. Of course, protections about voter registration were removed for this election, which is a trick Mr Cameron recently pulled in time for the Brexit vote...

Not forgetting that a good number of the Millennials who backed Sanders would not vote for Hilary at all.

Hilary also lost the gay vote after the Orlando atrocity. I think that was a turning point.
 

RichmondCommu

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Trump got fewer votes than McCain in 2008.

The issue is the democrat vote collapsed, staying at home instead of voting for either side. Of course, protections about voter registration were removed for this election, which is a trick Mr Cameron recently pulled in time for the Brexit vote...

Yes he did but he targeted the swing states because he knew that he had to win all of them. I'm sad to say that he out thought the Democrats.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Trump got fewer votes than McCain in 2008.

The issue is the democrat vote collapsed, staying at home instead of voting for either side. Of course, protections about voter registration were removed for this election, which is a trick Mr Cameron recently pulled in time for the Brexit vote...

A lot of the traditional Republican voters could/would have eschewed Trump as well.

Like the leave camp on the Brexit vote, Trump mobilised an otherwise unfranchised and probably previously low-turn-out portion of the electorate by addressing them directly, namely the poor, non-college educated, working-class whites, who felt left out and let down by a system that is seemingly determined to help minorities and immigrants, but ignores them.
 

Busaholic

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I wonder whether Hillary isn't secretly relieved she failed. She's only one year younger than Donald J. and it's been pretty obvious she's found it all pretty gruelling physically as well as probably mentally. Expect an announcement that she's leaving politics altogether.

I watched quite a lot of TV coverage of the 2008 election and it seemed to me that, a day after losing, John McCain suddenly looked ten years younger as though a great weight had been lifted from his shoulders. I doubt he'd still be round today if he'd become President.

So to a 70 year old first-time President. I can't believe that's a good position for any 70 year old to be in, yet alone for the citizens of the USA. Being almost the same age and with many friends/family around that age, I don't know any whose energy levels are anything like what they were ten years ago, or even five. There may be exceptions, but do we want a President stuffed with steroids or other substances?
 

AlterEgo

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I don't think that anybody wants TTIP - even the Greens and UKIP (who are normally poles apart) agreed that this was a bad idea.

TTIP would have meant that, among other things, Big Pharma would have been able to sue the NHS and UK Governments for not allowing their drugs to be sold.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not forgetting that a good number of the Millennials who backed Sanders would not vote for Hilary at all.

Hilary also lost the gay vote after the Orlando atrocity. I think that was a turning point.

Total nonsense that "Hillary lost the gay vote". 78% of them voted for her!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pi...ld-trump-exit-poll-reveals/amp/?client=safari
 

Richard_B

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A lot of the traditional Republican voters could/would have eschewed Trump as well.

Like the leave camp on the Brexit vote, Trump mobilised an otherwise unfranchised and probably previously low-turn-out portion of the electorate by addressing them directly, namely the poor, non-college educated, working-class whites, who felt left out and let down by a system that is seemingly determined to help minorities and immigrants, but ignores them.

Yes and no. His vote was down on the R vote 4 years ago so he can hardly be credited with bringing loads of new voters in. But his vote was definitely *better* mobilised than the democratic vote.

Interesting stat I saw this evening was that if 1% of Trump voters had voted for Clinton instead uniformly across the country she would have won 302 EVs and appeared to canter to presidency...
 

DynamicSpirit

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The question is why should america pay 2% of its GDP to defend these countries?

One answer that is somewhat cynical, but arguably not too far from the kind of reasoning that would have existed at the time that NATO was set up is that by defending European NATO countries, the USA ensures that any war (particularly a war resulting from Russian aggression) gets fought on European rather than American soil. From America's point of view, if its troops are going to have to fight, better do it somewhere where the collateral damage isn't American :)

Obviously though, that line of reasoning is somewhat less relevant now that there is no longer a USSR with an ideological commitment to the destruction of capitalism. (And I'm pretty sure that even in the 1950s it wasn't the only reason, and there were more noble motives behind NATO as well).
 

125Forever

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Total nonsense that "Hillary lost the gay vote". 78% of them voted for her!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pi...ld-trump-exit-poll-reveals/amp/?client=safari

Oh, The Pink News...yes, of course they would say that (ho hum).

Not like they've got their own agenda or won't spin things to suit what they think.

I think the actual figure will be more than the figure mentioned. Having heard and seen the outrage that many homosexuals had towards Clinton post Orlando, a lot of the community ditched her because they felt expendable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlqXgXwzkPg
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
How exactly?
He IS one of the "Global Elites".

He is an Elite, but was not among the Political Elite.

If he was just like Hilary, why did he refuse the money from the Koch Brothers (very much part of the Elite). Surely if he was actually 'one of them' he would have shook hands with the Koch's and the money would have rolled in.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Brexit and Trump may be the result of the normal working person being fed up with current government, but unfortunately, as a wealthy businessman, Trump is unlikely to change things positively for those most affected by the issues he claims he will solve. Rather than try to positively solve the problems, he's riding on the back of nationalism and fear, which is scarily similar to the rise of fascism in Europe in the early 20th century. You talk about the winds of change in such a positive light, but can you really not see why people have concerns about the resurgence of fascism?

If it silences the fascism and bullying from the extreme left, then fine. They deserve it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Honestly, I think this attitude is (partly) why so many perceive themselves as marginalised and disenfranchised. When they can't totally dominate the discussion and silence opposition they feel hard done by; the enfranchisement and inclusion of minority and oppressed groups has clearly trampled on this entitlement.

There are many, many legitimate grievances for those who have been hit by globalisation, but this attitude, and the way in which it throws groups that aren't like them under the bus, isn't one of them.

VERY well said.

Unfortunately, this is a sign of the times - people won't agree to disagree anymore, it is their way or the highway.

Years ago, even if you didn't agree with a person, you could still shake hands and be mates. Now, it is as if anything which doesn't fit the perceived 'correct' way of thinking is wrong and must be banned.

As a homosexual, I have received abuse over the years, but I brush it off and I get on with life. I don't believe in going to the police just because I've been called a Shirtlifter or a Faggott, I am better than that and I give back as good as I get. My own community (LGBTQ) hate this, and think I should cry off and make a scene - demand the perpetrator be arrested and his/her family sent death threats as punishment, or wish cancer upon them or something repulsive.

A lot of Millennials are going to be seriously butt-hurt over Trump becoming President, but you know what - sod their feelings. If they are that traumatised that they lost, then they really deserve no sympathy - they should man (and woman) up and suck it up and get on with life instead of spending the entire day threatening abuse on those who dared vote contrary to what they wanted.

We need to start being honest and working together for a better tomorrow, rather than sweat about what are the correct pronouns to call a person who wishes to gender identify as an octopus or whatever. Sod feelings, use common sense and get on with it.
 

AlterEgo

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Oh, The Pink News...yes, of course they would say that (ho hum).

Not like they've got their own agenda or won't spin things to suit what they think.

I think the actual figure will be more than the figure mentioned. Having heard and seen the outrage that many homosexuals had towards Clinton post Orlando, a lot of the community ditched her because they felt expendable.

The exit polling was done by the New York Times. It showed that Clinton actually increased her share of the LGBT vote, polling 2% more of the share than Obama did...
 
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