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Urinals in train toilets - an idea ?

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greyman42

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That sounds like a great way to get wee all over the floor of the cubicle. Tipsy late-night Pacers home back in the day, demonstrate that sitting down is usually the best option!
Very few men sit down for a pee.
 

Western Lord

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It may have been a commercial failure, but technically it was outstanding
A lot of good engineers worked very hard on overcoming the deficiencies of the basic design, but there's nothing really technically outstanding about an aircraft weighing ten tons more than the competition, with generally inferior performance. There's a reason nobody designs airliners with rear engines and T-tails these days (other than a few small biz-jet derived regional types).
 

yorksrob

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I agree, but that's mostly about good design so that the water and emission tanks are of suitable size.

It is also about good planning for replenishing water tanks and emptying emission tanks.

Yes, those things would be a good starting point. Seems difficult to achieve though.
 

seagull

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For them (or whatever pronoun they choose) maybe, but not for females who would rather use a facility that they can be guaranteed no men will use.
 

yorksrob

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Ah - of course. You’d be amazed how annoyed I am at myself for getting that wrong! There can be no excuses when I used to sign both stations…

Ah, I might have been on one of your trains at some time !
 

43066

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For transgender and non binary people, gender neutral toilets is the only arrangement that eliminates the risk of hassle from other users.

Surely train toilets are “gender neutral” by definition as only one person is intended to use them at a time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Ah, I might have been on one of your trains at some time !

Indeed! Albeit I signed them a lot more recently than the slam-door era.
 
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L401CJF

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Am curious, have you ever come across a toilet that didn't work because no water, or the tank was full? It hasn't happened to me yet thankfully...
175s tanks usually full by the late evening services and auto lock themselves out of use.
 

Magdalia

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For them (or whatever pronoun they choose) maybe, but not for females who would rather use a facility that they can be guaranteed no men will use.
Well designed gender neutral toilets provide for that, including those on trains. The key thing is having the wash basin, the hand dryer and the mirror inside the cubicle, not in the circulating area.

Surely train toilets are “gender neutral” by definition as only one person is intended to use them at a time.

Exactly. That was the point I was making. On train toilet facilities are gender neutral and that needs to happen in more public spaces.
 

Wolfie

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Well designed gender neutral toilets provide for that, including those on trains. The key thing is having the wash basin, the hand dryer and the mirror inside the cubicle, not in the circulating area.



Exactly. That was the point I was making. On train toilet facilities are gender neutral and that needs to happen in more public spaces.
Most gender neutral toilets l have come across, whether in offices or public spaces, have separate toilet cubicles but shared facilities (i.e. handwashing and drying etc). Doing otherwise would be significantly more expensive in terms of both space and equipment required.
 

KT550

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I've seen some trains in Japan with urinals.

Sliding door, user faces the outside of the train.

Even a small window in the door, so you can see if it is occupied (can only see the back of the users head).
 

yorksrob

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I've seen some trains in Japan with urinals.

Sliding door, user faces the outside of the train.

Even a small window in the door, so you can see if it is occupied (can only see the back of the users head).

Sounds very practical and space efficient !
 

gg1

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Most gender neutral toilets l have come across, whether in offices or public spaces, have separate toilet cubicles but shared facilities (i.e. handwashing and drying etc). Doing otherwise would be significantly more expensive in terms of both space and equipment required.
My experience is the exact opposite, the only gender neutral toilets I've ever used (mainly in office buildings or smaller restaurants) have included a seperate washbasin in each cubicle, though no good reason why they can't be designed like the one's you've seen.
 

Wolfie

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My experience is the exact opposite, the only gender neutral toilets I've ever used (mainly in office buildings or smaller restaurants) have included a seperate washbasin in each cubicle, though no good reason why they can't be designed like the one's you've seen.
Interesting. Most that l've used are in government buildings.
 

yorksrob

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Train urinals is a silly idea, but "waterless" urinals do exist.

I know they do (I have a colleague who procures them).

Train urinals can't be that silly an idea if the Japanese have them !
 

Energy

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Why? The non disabled toilets on trains aren't really that big, one with a urinal would be about the same space but only some of the population can use it.

Also I suspect the number of men who sit down when they are having a pee is a bigger on a *clean* train.
 

superalbs

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Crikey, all this fuss! There are literally trains with urinals in Germany, Austria, Switzerland...

And everybody just gets on with it.
 

Lucan

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God forbid that rather in excess of 50% of the population expect equal provision.
God, (you said it) do I really have to spell this out? That was not my point.

Magdalia wanted to raise off-topic LBGT issues. But a LBGT person's needs in regard to toilet fittings are no different from those of whichever gender they are inclined towards, or even if neither. So how are LBGT people being discriminated against any more than the rest of the population?

I'm well aware that women are sometimes caught short by other women occupying WC cubicles for longer times. Mrs L tells me all about that. I entirely agree that in general women should be provided with more cubicles than men have urinals. But I understood the OP was suggesting a urinal in the same compartment as the WC so that not so much water was consumed in flushing. The arrangement would remain a unisex one, keeping you and Magdalia happy, I trust.

If anyone wanted an arrangement with a cubicle purely for a gents' urinal (a urinal being the point of this thread), then you would need a separate cubicle for a gent's WC, and also at least one and maybe several (to avoid ladies queuing and to try to keep Magdelia and yourself happy) cubicles for ladies. That would take up half a carriage and would be ridiculous, like I said.
 

mmh

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Train urinals can't be that silly an idea if the Japanese have them !

Crikey, all this fuss! There are literally trains with urinals in Germany, Austria, Switzerland...
Lots of counties have lots of things that we don't have. We have things that other countries would consider silly.

"But so and so does it" isn't really a good argument for introducing something.
 

yorksrob

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"But so and so does it" isn't really a good argument for introducing something.

No, but trains that regularly run with no toilet provision because the tank's filled up, is a good reason for having something.
 

43066

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Train urinals can't be that silly an idea if the Japanese have them !

To be fair Japanese toilets also have heated seats, built in bidet function and a choice of music to play while you’re, erm, performing.
 

Energy

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Retention tank capacity.
No, but trains that regularly run with no toilet provision because the tank's filled up, is a good reason for having something.
How does a urinal fix these problems? Pee has the same volume for whatever toilet is used and normal train toilets use very little water.

The best solution to Northern's CET problem is either fitting the bio reactors on the 701s which mean their toilets only need emptying once a month, or building additional emptying infrastructure for the trains to empty at (such as at station platforms).
 

yorksrob

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To be fair Japanese toilets also have heated seats, built in bidet function and a choice of music to play while you’re, erm, performing.

Let's get bog roll and tap water sorted - first things first.

How does a urinal fix these problems? Pee has the same volume for whatever toilet is used and normal train toilets use very little water.

The best solution to Northern's CET problem is either fitting the bio reactors on the 701s which mean their toilets only need emptying once a month, or building additional emptying infrastructure for the trains to empty at (such as at station platforms).

CET's might not use much water to flush, but they still use water. The amount added everyone someone has a pee all adds up.
 

mmh

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How does a urinal fix these problems? Pee has the same volume for whatever toilet is used and normal train toilets use very little water.
Indeed. Instead of storing waste in tanks, we could just discharge it at the earliest opportunity, as we used to.

OK, toilets flushing onto tracks aren't going to come back, but a system that doesn't rely on depots and pipes and staff and stabling shouldn't be out of the realms of possibility, if this is a real problem.

When I used to use Southern a lot I did see a lot of toilets automatically out of order. Now I mainly use TFW and it's very rare to see. TFW's routes are a lot longer and the depots a lot more dispersed, so could this be an incompetence problem rather than a technical / engineering issue?
 
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