Urgent Help

[zalb12]

Hello,

I need some help. TFL are taking me to court for misuse of freedom pass, under bylaw 17. I cant get a criminal record but I am willing to pay a fine. Anyone who avoided a criminal record, how did you do it?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Someone will be along shortly to advise but you might want to consider how long you have been using a freedom pass. And who does it belong to?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I cant get a criminal record but I am willing to pay a fine.

I very much doubt that is a decision you can make unfortunately. In correspondence with them, may I suggest not saying you're "willing" to, as this word choice would suggest you feel you don't have to, but will graciously pay it as a favour to them.

Here is standard advice from the Senior Fares Advisor that may hopefully be of assistance until him or another in the know read the thread.

As for what will happen next I expect you will receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and ask for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

I wish you all the best.

 

[zalb12]

Someone will be along shortly to advise but you might want to consider how long you have been using a freedom pass. And who does it belong to?

Ive used it for 3 months, belongs to my mum.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==

I very much doubt that is a decision you can make unfortunately. In correspondence with them, may I suggest not saying you're "willing" to, as this word choice would suggest you feel you don't have to, but will graciously pay it as a favour to them.

Here is standard advice from the Senior Fares Advisor that may hopefully be of assistance until him or another in the know read the thread.



I wish you all the best.

I appreciate that. I already have a court date, so Im not sure if that will work.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Without wanting to pry into your personal life, why can't you get a criminal record?

The thing is, it may not be all that much of a problem. To start with, the punishment for using someone else's freedom pass is a fine: you won't be sent to prison.

Moving on a bit, there are some jobs which insist on an entirely clean record. These are mainly jobs involving other people's money, so things like working in the City. I appreciate this might be the sort of job you have (or want) so it could be that this will cause you a problem. But there are lots of jobs which will want to know if you have a criminal record, and may expect you to demonstrate that you aren't committing the crime any more, but which won't necessarily refuse to employ you. These include things like being a teacher or a nurse. So having a criminal record is embarrassing but not the end of the world.

A criminal record could also be an issue if you're not a British citizen, and you are relying on renewing your visa or retaining indefinite leave to remain. This isn't something we can advise on - because there are so many people who try to take advantage of people who want to maintain their immigration status, only authorised people can advise on this. In the first place, you might want to talk to the Citizens Advice, who may well be able to suggest someone who can legitimately help.

And a criminal record can be a problem if you want to visit the USA - but only in that you won't be able to do the ESTA visa waiver: you might find that you have to go to the embassy to get a visa, which will be time consuming and possibly expensive, but it is unlikely to stop the Americans from letting you into the country.

But if none of these apply to you, you probably don't need to worry about a criminal record. It will be embarrassing to tell your friends and family about, and the fine will be expensive. But apart from the points I've explained above, it needn't change your life.

 

[zalb12]

Without wanting to pry into your personal life, why can't you get a criminal record?

The thing is, it may not be all that much of a problem. To start with, the punishment for using someone else's freedom pass is a fine: you won't be sent to prison.

Moving on a bit, there are some jobs which insist on an entirely clean record. These are mainly jobs involving other people's money, so things like working in the City. I appreciate this might be the sort of job you have (or want) so it could be that this will cause you a problem. But there are lots of jobs which will want to know if you have a criminal record, and may expect you to demonstrate that you aren't committing the crime any more, but which won't necessarily refuse to employ you. These include things like being a teacher or a nurse. So having a criminal record is embarrassing but not the end of the world.

A criminal record could also be an issue if you're not a British citizen, and you are relying on renewing your visa or retaining indefinite leave to remain. This isn't something we can advise on - because there are so many people who try to take advantage of people who want to maintain their immigration status, only authorised people can advise on this. In the first place, you might want to talk to the Citizens Advice, who may well be able to suggest someone who can legitimately help.

And a criminal record can be a problem if you want to visit the USA - but only in that you won't be able to do the ESTA visa waiver: you might find that you have to go to the embassy to get a visa, which will be time consuming and possibly expensive, but it is unlikely to stop the Americans from letting you into the country.

But if none of these apply to you, you probably don't need to worry about a criminal record. It will be embarrassing to tell your friends and family about, and the fine will be expensive. But apart from the points I've explained above, it needn't change your life.

My profession want an enhanced dbs check- thats my main issue. Its the healthcare department (NHS)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Have TfL confiscated your mum's freedom pass?

 

[zalb12]

Have TfL confiscated your mum's freedom pass?

They confiscated it on the day, but then she got a new one.

 

[spag23]

I am surprised that they issued her with a new one. Normally, unless they can be convinced that it was used without the holder's knowledge, they have the right to withdraw it permanently. Or did she just say she'd mislaid it, and TfL hadn't yet joined the dots?

 

[zalb12]

I just need some advice from people that went through this themselves.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I just need some advice from people that went through this themselves.

Usually these people don't return to the forum once they've received all the advice they need and their cases closed/resolved

You could try and do a search for "freedom pass" in the search box and read through the relevant threads there, e.g.

Freedom pass evasion - letter sent, due to go Magistrate next. Anyone done this?

Hi all, Posting here for help / advice and mutual support really. I was caught using my fathers Freedom pass in June. I was going from Mile End to Liverpool Street on a Saturday afternoon and was caught at Liverpool Street. I felt like they knew to expect me but I can't be sure - they said...

www.railforums.co.uk

I think this one ended well for the OP

 

[zwk500]

I appreciate that. I already have a court date, so Im not sure if that will work.

It may still be worth trying, as TfL can choose to settle out of court at any time before the case is heard. There are reports of cases being settled in the waiting room. If you want to post draft letters here people might offer advice, although you may be asked to give the full story for better advice. Be prepared for TfL to refuse to settle though, they are quite strict about concessionary passes.

 

[spag23]

But bear in mind that if they DO offer a settlement at any stage, it will probably be on the basis of a full reimbursement of the avoided fares they can identify, plus a (~£100) admin fee to cover their investigation costs.

 

[12LDA28C]

It may still be worth trying, as TfL can choose to settle out of court at any time before the case is heard. There are reports of cases being settled in the waiting room. If you want to post draft letters here people might offer advice, although you may be asked to give the full story for better advice. Be prepared for TfL to refuse to settle though, they are quite strict about concessionary passes.

Especially those that have been misused on a regular basis over an extended period of time, such as three months - would this be every day during that time you've used your mum's pass or only on a few isolated occasions? And of course, they will be keen to hear why you didn't / weren't able to buy a ticket yourself. They will have heard a million excuses before, none of which are likely to lead them to change their approach unless you can prove genuine extenuating circumstances.

 

[spag23]

In case the OP hadn't realised, barriers are set to visually alert watching TfL staff to the use of such privilege or child passes. So if the bearer doesn't seem to match the right age profile, you can expect a challenge; eventually.

 

[zalb12]

Ah okay thank you. I wish the people who had this problem spoke up and shared their process, to help us out.

 

[skyhigh]

I appreciate that. I already have a court date, so Im not sure if that will work.

Have you contacted them at all since they first communicated with you, and if so, what did you say to them? Are they aware you used the pass for 3 months?

 

[zalb12]

Have you contacted them at all since they first communicated with you, and if so, what did you say to them? Are they aware you used the pass for 3 months?

Yes I did contact them. He wont budge, so I am 100% going to court. And yeah they are aware, but they are counting my mums journeys in with mine, so its totalling up to a lot more than what the actual amount is.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

If you’re prepared to pay a lot to avoid a conviction then you can raise your chances of success by retaining a solicitor. I won’t recommend a firm but you should search for one that specialises in rail fare evasion. You will usually get a free, no-obligation consultation, so there’s nothing to lose by at least availing yourself of that. Of course, success is still by no means guaranteed.

 

[zalb12]

If you’re prepared to pay a lot to avoid a conviction then you can raise your chances of success by retaining a solicitor. I won’t recommend a firm but you should search for one that specialises in rail fare evasion. You will usually get a free, no-obligation consultation, so there’s nothing to lose by at least availing yourself of that. Of course, success is still by no means guaranteed.

Not going to lie, I spent a lot on a solicitor already, and it was pointless lol

 

[30907]

Putting "Freedom Pass" into our search facility and selecting "This forum" should give you plenty of information - threads in double figures just from this year!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

My profession want an enhanced dbs check- thats my main issue. Its the healthcare department (NHS)

In the first instance, have a look at whatever your regulator (NMC, GMC, whatever) have to say on their website. Then try to check your contract to see what your employer says. If you are a member of a union, talk to your local rep to see what they say.

It seems to me that a requirement to see an enhanced DBS is not necessarily the same as it having to be a clear enhanced DBS - so getting specific knowledge of how a conviction could impact you is worth having.

 

[30907]

In the first instance, have a look at whatever your regulator (NMC, GMC, whatever) have to say on their website. Then try to check your contract to see what your employer says. If you are a member of a union, talk to your local rep to see what they say.

It seems to me that a requirement to see an enhanced DBS is not necessarily the same as it having to be a clear enhanced DBS - so getting specific knowledge of how a conviction could impact you is worth having.

In particular, a Byelaw conviction is unlikely to concern them too much. A past post has reference the RCN as having good advice.

 

[some bloke]

To take the example of doctors, a key issue is fitness to practise rather than a requirement to have no criminal convictions.

It's worth reading fitness to practise requirements carefully, and noting anything which indicates that it's only serious or persistent problems of this kind which would be seen as impairing fitness.

But you do need to follow the correct process. Please check whether your regulator and employer need you to tell them "without delay" or "immediately" that you've been charged.

The information, if it applies, should be on the website and contract, in line with what @Fawkes Cat says above. For example:

https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors/reporting-criminal-and-regulatory-proceedings-within-and-outside-the-uk/reporting-criminal-and-regulatory-proceedings-within-and-outside-the-uk

If you do need to let them know, make sure it's in writing and you keep a copy/copies, eg by email.

The offence you're charged with doesn't imply intent to avoid a fare. But you would of course be expected to be candid if you are asked relevant questions by the regulator or employer. If you were not candid, that is likely to be considered worse than the crime you're accused of and the crime you committed.

a Byelaw conviction is unlikely to concern them too much

We might expect a responsible regulator or employer to ask the person to explain the conviction; best to err on the side of assuming that they will ask what happened.

Even if they don't ask something directly which needs an answer involving intent to avoid a fare/fares, the point of their investigating the report of a conviction relates to fitness to practise. They are interested in trustworthiness, and in particular whether the employer and regulator can trust the person. Candour on matters of fitness to practise would often be seen as a key part of trustworthiness.

And it isn't necessarily good for the employee's mental health to be wondering whether, for instance, they gave an impression they had something to hide in a conversation which was superficially only about the formal description of the offence.

It seems to me that if the employer or regulator just said "oh, that's an offence of not having a proper ticket, so it isn't for dishonesty" and didn't bother asking the person anything relevant to whether it was deliberate or repeated, they wouldn't be doing their job properly. That isn't just because of the importance or otherwise of this particular issue, but because they should be interested generally in whether there are patterns of behaviour over time, and what context any future issues should be seen in.

 

[Titfield]

Even if they don't ask something directly which needs an answer involving intent to avoid a fare/fares, the point of their investigating the report of a conviction relates to fitness to practise. They are interested in trustworthiness, and in particular whether the employer and regulator can trust the person. Candour on matters of fitness to practise would often be seen as a key part of trustworthiness.

Failure to disclose, when required to do so, can often be the "tipping point" between a sanction been applied and a "warning as to future conduct".