URGENT HELP - letter received

[KS19]

Hi,

I recently received a letter from Thameslink with a Notice of Intention to prosecute. I have the chance to tell them what happened.
I have attached copies of the letter.
In May I made a journey from Brighton to London Bridge, however I only had a ticket from Brighton to Preston Park. And I bought the ticket with a 16-17 railcard even though I'm not in that age bracket. Whilst on the train through East Croydon the revenue inspector asked me for a ticket which I couldn't show. He scanned my invalid ticket and asked me some questions. I think due to being super scared and the panic I said that it wasn't my intention to evade the fare and that it was an accident about the ticket being purchased with a railcard and that I was intending on getting off at Preston Park but I changed my mind. I am super super scared as this is not my first time doing this journey like this, and if they check previous purchases they will be able to see that I have done this so many times before. I am deeply regretful and embarrassed and apologise so much as I understand the millions that are lost due to actions like this.
I really really need some help and advice on the best way to go about writing my response is as I am praying and hoping for this to settled outside of court.
Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In May I made a journey from Brighton to London Bridge, however I only had a ticket from Brighton to Preston Park. And I bought the ticket with a 16-17 railcard even though I'm not in that age bracket.

...this is not my first time doing this journey like this, and if they check previous purchases they will be able to see that I have done this so many times before.

@KS19. Welcome to the forum. So, it might seem that you are a deliberate fare-evader. Just how many times have you not paid the correct fare? Easy enough for the train company to check if you've bought your tickets online. And what outcome, other than prosecution, do you think would be acceptable, given the circumstances?

 

[KS19]

In honesty about the last 6 months, my girlfriend lives in London and it was always to come see her. All this stupidity just to save a bit of money and I severely regret my actions and it hasn't and will not happen again. An acceptable outcome would be settlement out of court, happy to pay a fine plus total costs of previous fares evaded and any admin fees. I know the letter is in regards to just the one incident however I can't be blinded by the fact that past purchases can easily be checked also.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2024 ==

I'm really scared as I have a job and don't want to have a criminal record against my name and be taken to court. I admit that what I've been doing is wrong and I hope and pray GTR don't take this matter to court

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If you are able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement", reckon you'll be looking at having to pay as much as £35.10 (or £33.50 for journeys made at the beginning of the year, before the March 2024 fare revision) for each and every one-way journey between Brighton and London, or vice-versa, plus a three figure sum, maybe £150.00, this towards the train company's administration and admin costs. You've not said just how many moody journeys you've made, but the total amount requested could quickly add up.

A return journey probably calculated as 2 x Anytime Day singles.

N.B. This is not a fine, as such, only courts impose them, which will mean you've got yourself a court conviction.

Others will now advise how best to respond to the letter you've received. Good luck!

By the way, how were you intending to get through the barriers at London Bridge?

 

[KS19]

If you are able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement", reckon you'll be looking at having to pay as much as £35.10 (or £33.50 for journeys made at the beginning of the year, before the March 2024 fare revision) for each and every one-way journey between Brighton and London, or vice-versa, plus a three figure sum, maybe £150.00, this towards the train company's administration and admin costs. You've not said just how many moody journeys you've made, but the total amount requested could quickly add up.

A return journey probably calculated as 2 x Anytime Day singles.

N.B. This is not a fine, as such, only courts impose them, which will mean you've got yourself a court conviction.

Others will now advise how best to respond to the letter you've received. Good luck!

By the way, how were you intending to get through the barriers at London Bridge?

I understand the costs would be large, I just really don't want this to go to court and effecting my future.

I would have bought a ticket to get through

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2024 ==

If you are able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement", reckon you'll be looking at having to pay as much as £35.10 (or £33.50 for journeys made at the beginning of the year, before the March 2024 fare revision) for each and every one-way journey between Brighton and London, or vice-versa, plus a three figure sum, maybe £150.00, this towards the train company's administration and admin costs. You've not said just how many moody journeys you've made, but the total amount requested could quickly add up.

A return journey probably calculated as 2 x Anytime Day singles.

N.B. This is not a fine, as such, only courts impose them, which will mean you've got yourself a court conviction.

Others will now advise how best to respond to the letter you've received. Good luck!

By the way, how were you intending to get through the barriers at London Bridge?

Thank you @Mcr Warrior

 

[ikcdab]

If you look at other threads on this forum you will find examples of the sort of letter you need to write. Basically you need to apologise for what you have done, promise never to do it again and then ask for an out of court settlement.

If you look at other threads, then draft Something and post it here, you will get some good feedback.

How many journeys do you think are involved?

 

[KS19]

Yes I have been looking at some of the examples, I am in the process of creating a draft and will post on here soon for feedback. Appreciate it.

Well the letter only refers to the once incident but there's been around 30+ journeys involved over the time which I obviously regret deeply and disappointed in my actions. Since I did get stopped by the inspector I have been buying full price tickers as it is a huge wake up call

 

[ikcdab]

Ok so this is important. When you reply you need only refer to the single case. You are under no obligation to incriminate yourself. Deal with that one case and then wait their response.

So it looks like the worst case (excepting prosecution) is that they offer you an out of court for the 30+ journeys. You don't say if these are singles or returns, but as noted above, the evaded fare is approx £35 for each missed single journey. So you can work out what the total sum might be if they work on all the missed journeys.

You say that you are now paying full price tickets. If you are eligible for a Railcard and the journeys qualify, you can save quite a lot.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Many people would argue that if someone who evades their rail fares consistently over a long period of time doesn't get prosecuted then you have to wonder just how serious the level of offending has to be to end up in court.

That said, Govia Thameslink Railway are generally one of the better train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing. I suggest writing a short, concide letter that mentions the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. GTR will be able to search your online ticket purchasing history and while you aren't required to incriminate yourself they might contact you again at some point in the future to ask you further questions about your ticket purchasing activity.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. You will also need to pay an admin fee, typically around £150, to reflect GTR's costs in dealing with the case. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payments in installments aren't usually allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

If you post a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[KS19]

I have attached a photo of a draft I have written. Is there anything else I should add or ammend? Do I need to go into more detail about what I said to the inspector at the time or is this okay?

 

[AlbertBeale]

If you are able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement", reckon you'll be looking at having to pay as much as £35.10 (or £33.50 for journeys made at the beginning of the year, before the March 2024 fare revision) for each and every one-way journey between Brighton and London, or vice-versa, plus a three figure sum, maybe £150.00, this towards the train company's administration and admin costs. You've not said just how many moody journeys you've made, but the total amount requested could quickly add up.

A return journey probably calculated as 2 x Anytime Day singles.

N.B. This is not a fine, as such, only courts impose them, which will mean you've got yourself a court conviction.

Others will now advise how best to respond to the letter you've received. Good luck!

By the way, how were you intending to get through the barriers at London Bridge?

Surely it's not as much as £35 if going to London Bridge from B'ton, since there are Thameslink Only tickets (and Thameslink destination tickets) either of which is a bit less than this? (Though, admittedly, the anytime singles aren't that much cheaper than an "any train", while returns and especially off-peak returns are much cheaper with the T/L restriction.) I'm guessing that although unpaid fares calculations in this situation don't allow for discounts for off-peak travel, railcards, returns, etc, they do take into account different "full price" tickets on a route?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

Ok so this is important. When you reply you need only refer to the single case. You are under no obligation to incriminate yourself. Deal with that one case and then wait their response.

So it looks like the worst case (excepting prosecution) is that they offer you an out of court for the 30+ journeys. You don't say if these are singles or returns, but as noted above, the evaded fare is approx £35 for each missed single journey. So you can work out what the total sum might be if they work on all the missed journeys.

You say that you are now paying full price tickets. If you are eligible for a Railcard and the journeys qualify, you can save quite a lot.

Yes - you don't need to incriminate yourself and refer to events they haven't mentioned in their letter; however, if you're to persuade them to settle out of court, then you do need to be careful not to word your letter so as to say anythng which is untrue. So in other words you don't need to talk about other occasions, but you can't imply there weren't other occasions.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Surely it's not as much as £35 if going to London Bridge from B'ton, since there are Thameslink Only tickets (and Thameslink destination tickets) either of which is a bit less than this? (Though, admittedly, the anytime singles aren't that much cheaper than an "any train", while returns and especially off-peak returns are much cheaper with the T/L restriction.) I'm guessing that although unpaid fares calculations in this situation don't allow for discounts for off-peak travel, railcards, returns, etc, they do take into account different "full price" tickets on a route?

Our experience is that train companies tend to use the unrestricted (so most expensive) Anytime Single tickets for working out compensation. And while this isn’t invariably the practice, it’s often argued that it’s best to prepare for the worst, so if the railway does offer a smaller settlement then that’s a nice surprise.

 

[KS19]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the notice of intention to prosecute letter regarding the fare evasion incident, reference xxx at xxx

I would like to express my sincere apologies for my actions. I deeply regret what I did and understand what I did was wrong.

On [date xx], I made a journey from Brighton to London Bridge, where the ticket I purchased was from Brighton to Preston Park only with a 16-17 railcard applied. Upon inspection by a Revenue Protection Inspector whilst at East Croydon, I was unable to provide a valid ticket for the full journey as my final destination was London Bridge and I do no qualify for the railcard applied. I sincerely apologise for my dishonesty.

I can honestly acknowledge and accept that my intention was to travel without a valid ticket and therefore evade the fare. I take full responsibility for my actions, understanding the negative impact and detriment it has on the rail industry. I am extremely sorry and this will not happen again as I have learnt the importance of abiding by Govia Thameslink's rules and regulations when travelling.

I humbly ask if this matter could be considered to be settled outside of court. I am fully dedicated to cooperating and engaging further to resolve the issue at hand, being more than willing to pay the outstanding fare, administrative costs and any other costs necessary.

Once again I sincerely apologise.

Kind regards,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the notice of intention to prosecute letter regarding the fare evasion incident, reference xxx at xxx

I would like to express my sincere apologies for my actions. I deeply regret what I did and understand what I did was wrong.

On [date xx], I made a journey from Brighton to London Bridge, where the ticket I purchased was from Brighton to Preston Park only with a 16-17 railcard applied. Upon inspection by a Revenue Protection Inspector whilst at East Croydon, I was unable to provide a valid ticket for the full journey as my final destination was London Bridge and I do no qualify for the railcard applied. I sincerely apologise for my dishonesty.

I can honestly acknowledge and accept that my intention was to travel without a valid ticket and therefore evade the fare. I take full responsibility for my actions, understanding the negative impact and detriment it has on the rail industry. I am extremely sorry and this will not happen again as I have learnt the importance of abiding by Govia Thameslink's rules and regulations when travelling.

I humbly ask if this matter could be considered to be settled outside of court. I am fully dedicated to cooperating and engaging further to resolve the issue at hand, being more than willing to pay the outstanding fare, administrative costs and any other costs necessary.

Once again I sincerely apologise.

Kind regards,

I think that's fine. There's an argument that saying that you're 'more than willing to pay the outstanding fare, administrative costs and any other costs necessary' isn't quite the right tone as it suggests that you're the one doing the railway a favour whereas actually you're asking them to be nice to you (so maybe you want to say something like 'I would be most grateful if you would allow me to pay (etc.)') but I think that's a minor point: you're making it clear that you're willing to pay up, and if the railway are willing to settle on the basis of this one incident then they'll probably be fine with the wording.

 

[KS19]

I think that's fine. There's an argument that saying that you're 'more than willing to pay the outstanding fare, administrative costs and any other costs necessary' isn't quite the right tone as it suggests that you're the one doing the railway a favour whereas actually you're asking them to be nice to you (so maybe you want to say something like 'I would be most grateful if you would allow me to pay (etc.)') but I think that's a minor point: you're making it clear that you're willing to pay up, and if the railway are willing to settle on the basis of this one incident then they'll probably be fine with the wording.

Okay yes that makes sense thank you. I will change the wording slightly of that part. Also I know I can only speak about this one incident and once I send the letter off what happens then like is it constant letters back and forth especially if they look at previous purchases? As I'm not sure of the process. Also would it be advisable to speak to a solicitor at this stage?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Okay yes that makes sense thank you. I will change the wording slightly of that part. Also I know I can only speak about this one incident and once I send the letter off what happens then like is it constant letters back and forth especially if they look at previous purchases? As I'm not sure of the process. Also would it be advisable to speak to a solicitor at this stage?

The most likely result will be that you get a single letter from the railway offering you the chance to settle this matter out of court. Assuming you agree to their offer and pay the amount they ask for, that will most likely be the end of it. So to that point there will be no need to get a solicitor involved.

But it's always possible that
- the railway will decide that prosecution is the way forward, and/or
- having looked at your record they decide they want to discuss previous underpaid journeys with a view to either prosecution or a further repayment from you to them.

Our general feeling round here is that even for those you won't need a solicitor. But every case is different, so if things like that do come up it might be good if you can back to us to ask for our suggestions on whatever actually happens.