Urgent: Defendant Does not reside at stated address

[William2624]

Hi all,

A provisional prosecution letter has arrived at my address, intended for a past tenant, at the property (whose current whereabouts I am unsure of due to a serious falling-out).

The letter relates to alleged fare evasion -- from my understanding, without casting any precise incrimination details on the intended recipient -- I was aware that they were short-faring. In other words, buying an online ticket starting at a station closer to their desired destination, but traveling from a station that is further out. This was a repeated occurrence and something that they had mentioned in the past as a way to save money on travel.

I intend to write back via email to southeastern and simply disclose that the intended recipient no longer lives at the address stated nor do I have any information of where they now live. I will not however mention details of short-faring because this is not something I want to engage in and despite our falling-out, I do not want to exacerbate their situation.

What is the likely outcome of this? What can SouthEastern do? According to their webpage on Penalty charges (not provisional prosecution), it simply says they will update their file and continue with their investigations of finding the person.

Most importantly, is there any legal liability enforceable against my address?

I will be grateful for your feedback; I note that my household has 21-days to respond from the date of receipt.

 

[jfollows]

No, there is no liability against your address, only against the person who no longer lives there.

In your place I would do as you propose, that’s to say respond to the letter with the basic facts as you outline. No speculation.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@William2624. Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens from time to time. As the letter has now been opened (it could just have been put back in the post unopened marked "no longer at this address"), are you happy to upload a copy of the correspondence on here?

If so, please be sure to obscure/cover up any name and address and case reference number.

 

[methecooldude]

A provisional prosecution letter has arrived at my address, intended for a past tenant, at the property (whose current whereabouts I am unsure of due to a serious falling-out).

Who was the letter address to? It's an offence under the Postal Services Act 2000 to open a postal packet that you know or reasonably suspect has been incorrectly delivered to you.

 

[Buzby]

As the addressee does not live at the address, it would have been more proper for you to return it to the sender either by refusing it from the postman or dropping it unopened into a post box with ‘Gone Away’ no forwarding address.

On the properties I have been in, they look askance at such interactions (in the belief that it is actually the intended recipient). I would suggest whatever you do will be unlikely to change the outcome in any meaningful way. It may be kinder to warn the recipient of the issue and let them deal with it directly.

 

[Haywain]

Hi all,

A provisional prosecution letter has arrived at my address, intended for a past tenant, at the property (whose current whereabouts I am unsure of due to a serious falling-out).

The letter relates to alleged fare evasion -- from my understanding, without casting any precise incrimination details on the intended recipient -- I was aware that they were short-faring. In other words, buying an online ticket starting at a station closer to their desired destination, but traveling from a station that is further out. This was a repeated occurrence and something that they had mentioned in the past as a way to save money on travel.

I intend to write back via email to southeastern and simply disclose that the intended recipient no longer lives at the address stated nor do I have any information of where they now live. I will not however mention details of short-faring because this is not something I want to engage in and despite our falling-out, I do not want to exacerbate their situation.

What is the likely outcome of this? What can SouthEastern do? According to their webpage on Penalty charges (not provisional prosecution), it simply says they will update their file and continue with their investigations of finding the person.

Most importantly, is there any legal liability enforceable against my address?

I will be grateful for your feedback; I note that my household has 21-days to respond from the date of receipt.

The letter isn't addressed to you, and the content is therefore no business of yours. Simple return it to the sender with an explanation - as it wan't addressed to you they might well wonder why you opened it and read it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Who was the letter address to? It's an offence under the Postal Services Act 2000 to open a postal packet that you know or reasonably suspect has been incorrectly delivered to you.

Ah, the forum's favourite irrelevant tangent, opening someone else's post.

It's only illegal if you do it with the intention of causing them detriment and without a reasonable excuse.

As @Haywain says, it should be returned to sender, preferably with an explanation that they no longer live there and have gone away.

 

[Western Sunset]

If the OP wrote to SouthEastern explaining about alleged short-fairing, could that be construed as opening someone's post to their detriment?

 

[AlterEgo]

If the OP wrote to SouthEastern explaining about alleged short-fairing, could that be construed as opening someone's post to their detriment?

It wouldn't matter because they already have a reasonable excuse to open it - that if they ignored all correspondence sent to this address, a bailiff with a warrant to enter their house will come eventually, with the legal right to force entry if they are seizing goods to pay for a court fine.

This is such a pointless tangent that comes up all the time, it is tiring.

 

[skyhigh]

If the OP wrote to SouthEastern explaining about alleged short-fairing, could that be construed as opening someone's post to their detriment?

This is a completely useless tangent to go down, as the OP says they won't do this.

 

[William2624]

Hi all, thank you for your prompt and constructive feedback.

I understand that I have no obligation whatsoever to disclose any further details to SE, however, as I once knew the person very well, I do fear for any repercussions they may face if this is not dealt with.

As mentioned before, I have no idea of the whereabouts of the intended recipient, and I am pretty sure I may be blocked via all their social media pages/phone number. Would it be advisable to nonetheless take a picture of the letter and send it to them? Therefore I have undertaken reasonable steps on my end? Again, in terms of the postal act violation, I of course did not intend any harm.

Again, I am more so weary of the legal consequences on my end. I just don't want further correspondence to be sent to my address nor a SE prosecution team (if that's even possible? Or standard practice?) to show up to my house.

I'm pretty sure with the wealth and organisational reach that SE have, they will most likely review CCTV footage and track any digital footprints of the intended recipient and perhaps stop them at a station sometime in the future and this time perhaps arrest them for noncompliance?

Will be grateful for any further responses. This forum is super insightful.

Thanks

 

[methecooldude]

Ah, the forum's favourite irrelevant tangent, opening someone else's post.

It's only illegal if you do it with the intention of causing them detriment and without a reasonable excuse.

Causing them detriment: They are unable to answer the charges against them which prevents being able to negotiate a settlement and could lead to a nasty surprise further down the line.

Without reasonable excuse: The OP knew the addressee no longer lived there, so what is the reasonable excuse to open it? If the letter was addressed to "The Occupier", then it would be reasonable

 

[jfollows]

Hi all, thank you for your prompt and constructive feedback.

I understand that I have no obligation whatsoever to disclose any further details to SE, however, as I once knew the person very well, I do fear for any repercussions they may face if this is not dealt with.

As mentioned before, I have no idea of the whereabouts of the intended recipient, and I am pretty sure I may be blocked via all their social media pages/phone number. Would it be advisable to nonetheless take a picture of the letter and send it to them? Therefore I have undertaken reasonable steps on my end? Again, in terms of the postal act violation, I of course did not intend any harm.

Again, I am more so weary of the legal consequences on my end. I just don't want further correspondence to be sent to my address nor a SE prosecution team (if that's even possible? Or standard practice?) to show up to my house.

I'm pretty sure with the wealth and organisational reach that SE have, they will most likely review CCTV footage and track any digital footprints of the intended recipient and perhaps stop them at a station sometime in the future and this time perhaps arrest them for noncompliance?

Will be grateful for any further responses. This forum is super insightful.

Thanks

No, forget the “postal act” nonsense, just reply with the basic facts as you know them, and don’t speculate. No legal consequences. File and forget.
Remember that this happens all the time, SE knows this, and will act accordingly.

 

[MotCO]

I fear you are overthinking this. I would just send it back with a note that the defendant no longer lives at this address. Saying or doing anything else could lead to any number of unintended consequences.

 

[The exile]

Causing them detriment: They are unable to answer the charges against them which prevents being able to negotiate a settlement and could lead to a nasty surprise further down the line.

Without reasonable excuse: The OP knew the addressee no longer lived there, so what is the reasonable excuse to open it? If the letter was addressed to "The Occupier", then it would be reasonable

The reasonable excuse would be that which the occupant of any residential address could claim on a one-off basis: “ I was opening the post and didn’t notice this one wasn’t for me”.

 

[AlterEgo]

Causing them detriment: They are unable to answer the charges against them which prevents being able to negotiate a settlement and could lead to a nasty surprise further down the line.

The OP would need to intend for that, and in any case, telling the sender "this person does not live here, they moved away" is actually assisting the process. How are they going to answer any allegations when they aren't getting any letters?

Without reasonable excuse: The OP knew the addressee no longer lived there, so what is the reasonable excuse to open it?

It's already been explained what detriment could happen to the actual resident of the property and I am not going to bore myself explaining it again.

 

[WesternLancer]

I fear you are overthinking this. I would just send it back with a note that the defendant no longer lives at this address. Saying or doing anything else could lead to any number of unintended consequences.

Exactly this. It would be enough to simply re seal the envelope. Write on it ‘no longer at this address’ and pop it in pillar box. No stamp required. But including basic fact as posted here might help prevent future letters for your former housemate. Cross through or Obscure their address on envelope to stop sorting machinery re reading it and it gettin redelivered to you by mistake.

I would recommend doing the above for all and any mail for them that arrives. Even obvious junk mail. And check their name is removed from electoral register next time council does annual check in August usually. This will help prevent risk of bailiffs debt collectors etc looking for them at your house and you being bothered by such like.

 

[Haywain]

Will be grateful for any further responses.

As you have opened the post, you will need to explain why you did this (accident, curiosity, whatever). You may also receive further correspondence from Southeastern asking you to confirm your identity, because without this anyone could just say "wasn't me guv". Importantly, however, you have nothing to fear other than having to expend a small amount of time dealing with this.

 

[William2624]

As you have opened the post, you will need to explain why you did this (accident, curiosity, whatever). You may also receive further correspondence from Southeastern asking you to confirm your identity, because without this anyone could just say "wasn't me guv". Importantly, however, you have nothing to fear other than having to expend a small amount of time dealing with this.

This is what I am paranoid about ... The fact I may receive further correspondence from SE forensically imploring me to provide more details of myself as well as the relation I had with the intended recipient. In truth, I just want SE to bugger off and leave me alone.

 

[Haywain]

The fact I may receive further correspondence from SE forensically imploring me to provide more details of myself as well as the relation I had with the intended recipient.

They may (not will) ask for proof of your identity, such as a copy of your driving licence or passport, but nothing more. Your relationship with the fare dodger is not relevant to them and they will not ask about it.

 

[jfollows]

They may (not will) ask for proof of your identity, such as a copy of your driving licence or passport, but nothing more. Your relationship with the fare dodger is not relevant to them and they will not ask about it.

And whether or not you choose to provide proof of identity is up to you, you do not have any legal obligation to do so, but in order to get them to “bugger off and leave me alone” it could be the pragmatic thing to do.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is what I am paranoid about ... The fact I may receive further correspondence from SE forensically imploring me to provide more details of myself as well as the relation I had with the intended recipient. In truth, I just want SE to bugger off and leave me alone.

The best way to do that is to send the correspondence back with a note. At most they may ask for some ID, although you would be under no obligation to provide this.

 

[simonw]

As you have opened the post, you will need to explain why you did this (accident, curiosity, whatever). You may also receive further correspondence from Southeastern asking you to confirm your identity, because without this anyone could just say "wasn't me guv". Importantly, however, you have nothing to fear other than having to expend a small amount of time dealing with this.

The OP will not need to explain why they opened the letter. Southeastern will not be the least bit interested in why they did so.

 

[Hadders]

We've done the 'opening someone else's post' debate many times on here so let's not go any further down that road. It's clear the latter has been opened so let's focus on giving good advice to @William2624 given where this is where things are.

Personally, I'd just return the letter to Southeastern with a brief covering letter saying that the person no longer lives at the address and that you have no forwarding address.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is what I am paranoid about ... The fact I may receive further correspondence from SE forensically imploring me to provide more details of myself as well as the relation I had with the intended recipient. In truth, I just want SE to bugger off and leave me alone.

You won’t

 

[43066]

Personally I would probably just bin it and not give it any more thought!

 

[SussexMan]

Personally I would probably just bin it and not give it any more thought!

Well more thought will have to be given when further post arrives, e.g. summons, court outcome, bailiffs, etc.

I would seal the letter back up, and write, "Return to Sender. Addressee left in MONTH YEAR. Opened in error"

 

[AlterEgo]

Personally I would probably just bin it and not give it any more thought!

Until the bailiff turns up with the power to force entry.

 

[signed]

If you got the letter through Royal Mail, the official guidance is :

Personal help & support hub | Royal Mail

personal.help.royalmail.com

If you’ve received mail which has your address, but not your name, this is because we deliver to addresses rather than names. If this does happen, you can put a cross through the address and write 'Not known at this address' or 'No longer lives here' and put it back in a postbox. Where possible, we’ll return the item to the sender hopefully allowing them to update their records.

 

[43066]

Until the bailiff turns up with the power to force entry.

In the unlikely event it got that far they don’t just break in, they rely on you opening the door first, and ID could be shown at that point.

I would more than likely have thrown the letter away without opening it, so would be unaware of the matter beforehand, in any case.