UPDATED-Expired Rail Card - 4 Months

[fadacon]

As I was coming into Stanstead airport this morning from Liverpool Street, there were inspectors on the platform checking tickets. I showed them my ticket and was then asked for my railcard, which when I showed them turned out to be 4 months out of date (completely my error). I had used it for 4 or 5 journeys expired unknowingly, I haven’t clicked into it for a while and just hadn’t thought about it! Completely my mistake, just terrified that this will be taken to court. They took my details and didn’t give any more information. Do they always give a monetary penalty before taking things to court? I work in the legal sector so very worried this will affect my job. Thank you.

 

[furlong]

Expect a letter, then co-operate and apologise and they'll nearly always accept a payment to put things right without involving any court.
(If you understand how to say things in a legally competent manner, you can speed things up and try to avoid receiving the letter likely to say you're under investigation for criminal offences that you might feel obliged to disclose to your employer by waiting a few days for the data to get entered into their systems and then taking the initiative to contact them first to discuss a settlement. Assuming it was Greater Anglia, prosecutions@greateranglia.com in the first instance (if your case is outsourced, they'll give you an alternative email address). I.e. do the same thing that happens when people pay for a lawyer to help them reach a quick settlement. We don't normally advise it on here because if you don't understand what you're doing and you say the wrong things it can easily make the situation worse, and there's always a chance that your case will get forgotten somewhere in the system and nothing will happen. For most people there's more downside risk than upside.)

 

[WesternLancer]

As I was coming into Stanstead airport this morning from Liverpool Street, there were inspectors on the platform checking tickets. I showed them my ticket and was then asked for my railcard, which when I showed them turned out to be 4 months out of date (completely my error). I had used it for 4 or 5 journeys expired unknowingly, I haven’t clicked into it for a while and just hadn’t thought about it! Completely my mistake, just terrified that this will be taken to court. They took my details and didn’t give any more infiltration. Do they always give a monetary penalty before taking things to court? I work in the legal sector so very worried this will affect my job. Thank you.

Hi and welcome

See other threads. They don’t go straight to court from what we see. But they don’t automatically send a monetary penalty automatically either.

Usual practice is a letter asking you to explain what happened as to why you didn’t have a valid ticket. Getting that letter and replying to it is vital.

That is your opportunity to seek an out of court settlement by paying them the fares you owe.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Greater Anglia will normally offer an out of court settlement in cases like this as long as you co-operate with them and haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares for all the journeys made since the railcard expires at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the railcard discounted tickets you did ourchase. In addition they normally charge an admin fee, typically £150.

Greater Anglia will write to you in the next few weeks threatening prosecution but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. The letter can take several weeks to arrive because they will probably contact Trainline to pbtain your ticket purchasing history. When the letter does come post a redacted copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

Just to expand of @furlong point. Many people are required to tell their employer if they are convicted of a criminal offence, an out of court settlement means you aren't convicted so no need to tell your employer. But, some jobs require you to tell your employer if you are under investigation for a criminal offence. It is possible that your job requires you to thell your employer that you are under investigation (check what your contract of employments says).

Now, an investigation for an inadvertently expired railcard which is highly likely to result in an out of court settlement and no criminal conviction should not impact your job. What @furlong is suggesting is contacting Greater Anglia ahead of receiving their initial letter - this is because technically the initial letter is what tells you that you are under investigation. If you can agree an out of court settlement before an initial letter is sent then there wold be no need to disclose anything at all to your employer.

There is a need to tread carefully if you reach out before the initial letter arrives, the wording of a letter needs to be correct or you could inadvertently risk making things worse. We had a case a couple of weeks ago where we advised how to reply to an initial letter but the persons 'solicitor' friend suggested an alterative form of words which was totally inappropriate and consequently the train company did not offer an out of court settlement. A settlement was offered int he end but it took an awful lot of effprt and cost more than it should have done.

 

[fadacon]

Thank you all for the help. From what you have said, I am better off waiting to hear from them first rather than reaching out directly? Or alternatively, would you suggest emailing them apologising profusely and admitting fault, explaining the situation and that I would be prepared to pay any and all penalties?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2025 ==

Expect a letter, then co-operate and apologise and they'll nearly always accept a payment to put things right without involving any court.
(If you understand how to say things in a legally competent manner, you can speed things up and try to avoid receiving the letter likely to say you're under investigation for criminal offences that you might feel obliged to disclose to your employer by waiting a few days for the data to get entered into their systems and then taking the initiative to contact them first to discuss a settlement. Assuming it was Greater Anglia, prosecutions@greateranglia.com in the first instance (if your case is outsourced, they'll give you an alternative email address). I.e. do the same thing that happens when people pay for a lawyer to help them reach a quick settlement. We don't normally advise it on here because if you don't understand what you're doing and you say the wrong things it can easily make the situation worse, and there's always a chance that your case will get forgotten somewhere in the system and nothing will happen. For most people there's more downside risk than upside.)

They didn’t give me any contact details or paperwork unfortunately and I didn’t fully understand what was happening at the time to ask for anything! (It was also 6 in the morning and I was about to go on holiday (which has now been pretty much ruined) so I didn’t have my best judgement!) Woe is me, I know.

 

[Hadders]

My personal view is you are better off waiting for their letter, especially if you don't have a case reference number. In the meantime, try not to worry too much, these things happen and it's normally sortable.

 

[Haywain]

If you have a contract of employment which states that you must disclose being under investigation, then you should do that now. You know full well what is happening and do not need a letter to confirm it. Remember that it is often the failure to disclose relevant information that is seen as the greater offence, not the actual disclosure, and delay is the same as failure.

 

[John R]

I cannot imagine the simple oversight of renewing a railcard would be regarded as an offence that would impact your employment, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be disclosed if your contract or professional regulator requires it.

(Although as you work in the legal field where detail is paramount, I’d expect your manager to be unimpressed at the lack of attention to detail shown in letting it expire for so long.)

 

[fadacon]

My personal view is you are better off waiting for their letter, especially if you don't have a case reference number. In the meantime, try not to worry too much, these things happen and it's normally sortable.

Thank you for your kind advice. I will revert back with the letter and a draft response. Some great templates on other threads.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2025 ==

As I was coming into Stanstead airport this morning from Liverpool Street, there were inspectors on the platform checking tickets. I showed them my ticket and was then asked for my railcard, which when I showed them turned out to be 4 months out of date (completely my error). I had used it for 4 or 5 journeys expired unknowingly, I haven’t clicked into it for a while and just hadn’t thought about it! Completely my mistake, just terrified that this will be taken to court. They took my details and didn’t give any more information. Do they always give a monetary penalty before taking things to court? I work in the legal sector so very worried this will affect my job. Thank you.

Just another point, as I was panicking about where my railcard and drivers licence was linked to, I gave my parents address where I often stay and can always receive post from. Do you think this is okay? I moved recently and we have had issues with deliveries/ post going to wrong apartments so thought this was best at the time but now worrying as I am not linked to council tax there etc? I will definitely receive the post they send there however as and when.

 

[WesternLancer]

Just another point, as I was panicking about where my railcard and drivers licence was linked to, I gave my parents address where I often stay and can always receive post from. Do you think this is okay? I moved recently and we have had issues with deliveries/ post going to wrong apartments so thought this was best at the time but now worrying as I am not linked to council tax there etc? I will definitely receive the post they send there however as and when.

This won't matter in my view - they just want a reliable address where you can be contacted and can receive post, and they will send letters to you at that address in my view (the address you gave)

They won't engage in a process of cross checking that address with council tax records / DVLA drivers licence records etc

That sort of thing would only happen way into the future eg if it went to court, you had not responded, court has to pass it to bailiffs to collect a court debt, you can't be found at the address you gave etc - that's the time those sorts of records would be checked.

 

[fadacon]

This won't matter in my view - they just want a reliable address where you can be contacted and can receive post, and they will send letters to you at that address in my view (the address you gave)

They won't engage in a process of cross checking that address with council tax records / DVLA drivers licence records etc

That sort of thing would only happen way into the future eg if it went to court, you had not responded, court has to pass it to bailiffs to collect a court debt, you can't be found at the address you gave etc - that's the time those sorts of records would be checked.

Okay thank you. I have moved around a fair few times in recent years due to year long rental contracts (probably another reason I didn’t notice the railcard had expired at the start of the year I was dealing with a Section 21 no fault eviction, but I’m aware GA won’t care about this as mitigating circumstances).

 

[furlong]

They didn’t give me any contact details or paperwork unfortunately

So yet another breach of the industry's Approved Code of Practice.

Under the Approved Code of Practice - Arrangements for travel ticket irregularities "binding in honour only", the passenger must be provided with a card:

4 (iii) (c) Where a passenger’s details are recorded in connection with a travel irregularity but no notice is issued, they will be provided as a minimum with a card stating
The name of the train company taking the details
Website and telephone contact details to allow the passenger to access the TOC’s revenue protection policy (including the action that may be taken subsequently, and their rights and obligations in connection with this)

Something you could take up as a complaint (separately) later, if you were so inclined.

As others already said, an address where you can be contacted reliably is sufficient.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay thank you. I have moved around a fair few times in recent years due to year long rental contracts (probably another reason I didn’t notice the railcard had expired at the start of the year I was dealing with a Section 21 no fault eviction, but I’m aware GA won’t care about this as mitigating circumstances).

Thanks - in your situation it's actively a good idea that you gave your parents address as a reliable and consistent place for you to safely receive post. Of course just make sure they know to watch out for an important letter addressed to you. But I'm sure you have done that already.

 

[fadacon]

Thanks - in your situation it's actively a good idea that you gave your parents address as a reliable and consistent place for you to safely receive post. Of course just make sure they know to watch out for an important letter addressed to you. But I'm sure you have done that already.

yep thanks, haven’t told them quite how severe it is though! Best cross that bridge if and when …

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2025 ==

So yet another breach of the industry's Approved Code of Practice.

Under the Approved Code of Practice - Arrangements for travel ticket irregularities "binding in honour only", the passenger must be provided with a card:

Something you could take up as a complaint (separately) later, if you were so inclined.

As others already said, an address where you can be contacted reliably is sufficient.

I’ve seen other people with a card and ref. number on the forum, but nope the lady just said I answered the questions well and thanks very much! I just didn’t think to ask for anything, wanted to run away tbh.

 

[fadacon]

UPDATE- I was at my parents’ house last weekend (so 31 May, 1 June) and no letter was received, as expected as the staff told me minimum 4 weeks (and judging from other threads, can take months). My parents then went on a short trip away Monday-Thursday (5 June) and came back to the attached letter, dated 22 May. Given that they opened it on 5 June, the 14th day from when the letter was dated, they quickly (very kindly) paid the balance for me (£108.35)!!!! The letter was therefore sent 3 days after I was stopped on 19 May! I was very surprised, and it was lucky that they opened it when they did. Am I right in thinking that this is now case closed? We received a confirmation and receipt of payment. Also side note, did anyone see the recent BBC article criticising train companies for being too heavy handed with criminalising passengers? Let me know, thank you!

 

[30907]

The matter is closed.

They have no proof of previous fare evasion - I once had 2 railcards simultaneously.... - so even if they trawl your history they can only threaten.

 

[Titfield]

Yes case closed.

 

[WesternLancer]

UPDATE- I was at my parents’ house last weekend (so 31 May, 1 June) and no letter was received, as expected as the staff told me minimum 4 weeks (and judging from other threads, can take months). My parents then went on a short trip away Monday-Thursday (5 June) and came back to the attached letter, dated 22 May. Given that they opened it on 5 June, the 14th day from when the letter was dated, they quickly (very kindly) paid the balance for me (£108.35)!!!! The letter was therefore sent 3 days after I was stopped on 19 May! I was very surprised, and it was lucky that they opened it when they did. Am I right in thinking that this is now case closed? We received a confirmation and receipt of payment. Also side note, did anyone see the recent BBC article criticising train companies for being too heavy handed with criminalising passengers? Let me know, thank you!

Just keep all the paperwork and proofs of payment and keep long term eg longer than a year.