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Update to National Rail Enquiries disruption page

Amlag

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I suggest anyone who (rightly) feels the new disruption info system introduced by NRES is a massive downgrade of a previously useful and easily understood source of information for passengers, complains by email to :-

customer.relations@nationalrail.co.uk
 
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Harratt4

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You can try emailing them and I applaud the effort. However my experience of using the app for most of the spring / summer for live train times was that after entering my station pairs I would get a pop up COVERING the search box with a message along the lines of "before you go... can you tell us how you feel about our website (remember, this is on the "app") with a series of grumpy to happy faces.

This meant that in a hurry to see what platform I needed I couldn't proceed without completing a survey "before I go". Well I can't go because I don't know what platform I need to go from!

That is pretty emblematic of the NRE UX IME.

Obviously I would always give the very sad face (because this updated "app" is appalling for all the reasons described above). In the end I got so frustrated I also filled in the free text box to say that it was pointless to keep asking the same people to rate the "app" at the same point in the UX journey before every. single. live. trains. search. and damned annoying that we were forced to. I also suggested that if they needed us to tell them how the app could be improved they either shouldn't be in app design or they needed to give their head a wobble.

Shortly after that they survey stopped appearing. The app hasn't been improved.
 

styles

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I complained to them about the Booking.com integration. It's not so much that I mind having the option to also pop up hotel results; it's that it's checked by default.

Anyway, I didn't even get a reply, and clearly the checkbox is here to stay, still checked by default.

I've just stopped using their website. Their journey planner doesn't properly handover to most (maybe any?) retailers with the journey you've selected, so it seems a bit pointless. Their disruption pages are no better than the operator you're wanting to travel with, so that's in the bin too. Their APIs are ok but I don't care for the website except a very occasional check of a network map or something.
 

Adam Williams

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Their journey planner doesn't properly handover to most (maybe any?) retailers with the journey you've selected, so it seems a bit pointless
It should work for Raileasy/TrainSplit.

Of course, selecting a third-party retailer is made quite difficult (particularly on mobile), you have to resist clicking the big yellow Buy Tickets button or you'll be sent to the flow's TOC.
 

styles

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It should work for Raileasy/TrainSplit.

Of course, selecting a third-party retailer is made quite difficult (particularly on mobile), you have to resist clicking the big yellow Buy Tickets button or you'll be sent to the flow's TOC.
Yeah it varies by retailer.

But for example with Raileasy it is better but still not perfect. If I search for Chester to Hawarden Bridge leaving now and on the NRE website I specify an additional 120 minutes for connections (I know, it's a bit contrived, but NRE also limit how much additional connection time you can add), the search results on Raileasy don't reflect that additional connection time. I'm not sure if that's NRE's fault or Raileasy's mind.

It's then also a bit odd because you'll be shown a price on the NRE site, then handover to a retailer like Raileasy who offer split tickets with a great split ticketing algorithm, and the fares will be less and the journeys aren't (I think) automatically selected).

Raileasy/TrainSplit are certainly better but I don't think any retailer has a perfect handover from NRE.

As an aside, why doesn't the forum's website appear in the list of retailers to buy tickets from NRE? I assumed pretty much any accredited retailer would be on the list! I've never noticed before because I stopped using NRE for booking tickets years ago.
 
Last edited:

JoshD14

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But for example with Raileasy it is better but still not perfect. If I search for Chester to Hawarden Bridge leaving now and on the NRE website I specify an additional 120 minutes for connections (I know, it's a bit contrived, but NRE also limit how much additional connection time you can add), the search results on Raileasy don't reflect that additional connection time. I'm not sure if that's NRE's fault or Raileasy's mind.
Partially our fault as I never implemented support for that field, but also I've looked now and reality does not match up with the docs we were given! Our implementation was honestly written in the span of a couple of days, we intentionally didn't do everything as a V1, but I'm looking at this now.

It's then also a bit odd because you'll be shown a price on the NRE site, then handover to a retailer like Raileasy who offer split tickets with a great split ticketing algorithm, and the fares will be less and the journeys aren't (I think) automatically selected).
If we manage to find an exact match of the itinerary handed over to us, you _should_ be taken straight to the ticket info page with it, and with the exact fare you selected on NRE too. We then fall back to the cheapest available fare if we can't find the one you've handed over with, and then fall back to search results if we can't find the itinerary. The journey planner NRE uses also does some things like MCT handling differently to us/FastJP, so there are a couple of times where we can't find an exact match because of differences there.
 

Adam Williams

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As an aside, why doesn't the forum's website appear in the list of retailers to buy tickets from NRE? I assumed pretty much any accredited retailer would be on the list! I've never noticed before because I stopped using NRE for booking tickets years ago.
Asking for TrainSplit and Raileasy felt like a stretch already to be honest. I think every single whitelabel operated by the same entity would be a bit much!
 

styles

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Asking for TrainSplit and Raileasy felt like a stretch already to be honest. I think every single whitelabel operated by the same entity would be a bit much!
Is it a chargeable thing though or something they provide for free? Genuinely haven't given it any thought until now!
 

Adam Williams

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Is it a chargeable thing though or something they provide for free? Genuinely haven't given it any thought until now!
No charge.

It disappeared for a long time and would just force the flow TOC as the transfer destination.

I think they're now keen to give consumers choice (which is refreshing, I won't hold my breath on the TOC [eventually GBR, I guess] and TPRs ever being given equal weighting and competing on an even playing field though :p)
 

styles

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Partially our fault as I never implemented support for that field, but also I've looked now and reality does not match up with the docs we were given! Our implementation was honestly written in the span of a couple of days, we intentionally didn't do everything as a V1, but I'm looking at this now.


If we manage to find an exact match of the itinerary handed over to us, you _should_ be taken straight to the ticket info page with it, and with the exact fare you selected on NRE too. We then fall back to the cheapest available fare if we can't find the one you've handed over with, and then fall back to search results if we can't find the itinerary. The journey planner NRE uses also does some things like MCT handling differently to us/FastJP, so there are a couple of times where we can't find an exact match because of differences there.
All fair enough! I wasn't complaining per se, just observing that even the better retailers don't get a perfect handover for whatever reason. I believe this to mainly be NRE's fault as, if they're to be the sort of source of truth then they ought to provide interopability which actually supports everything. It is odd in some ways because they only let you choose 30/60/90/120 MCTs which are actually represented (in their POST requests, which is another issue) by 1/2/3/4 respectively, so they don't even support the flexibility of say Raileasy, so Raileasy could translate their 1/2/3/4 back to 30/60/90/120.

There's usually some fudging with integrations, but if I used the default retailer in this Chester-Hawarden Bridge example it would take me to the TfW site and present me with a blank search form. Given that NRE/RDG are the ones who accredit retailers, you'd think they might require that the handover at least goes to a search result rather than a blank form making the passenger search again from scratch, and with different form fields (in this example, TfW allow additional connection times of 5/10/15/20/30/40/60 so they couldn't even support the 30/60/90/120 preference from the NRE website).

Raileasy does a great job of handling these inconsistencies but they shouldn't have to really.
 

Adam Williams

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It is odd in some ways because they only let you choose 30/60/90/120 MCTs which are actually represented (in their POST requests, which is another issue) by 1/2/3/4 respectively, so they don't even support the flexibility of say Raileasy, so Raileasy could translate their 1/2/3/4 back to 30/60/90/120.
Yes, this was exactly the problem.

The docs from RDG say that it'll send a value in minutes when handing over. It doesn't, it sends their enum index value - which is meaningless to everyone who isn't SilverRail, presumably (or perhaps it's an NRE restriction, I have no idea).
 

rmHawk765

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The docs from RDG say that it'll send a value in minutes when handing over. It doesn't, it sends their enum index value - which is meaningless to everyone who isn't SilverRail, presumably (or perhaps it's an NRE restriction, I have no idea).
What, seriously? :lol:
 

styles

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Yes, this was exactly the problem.

The docs from RDG say that it'll send a value in minutes when handing over. It doesn't, it sends their enum index value - which is meaningless to everyone who isn't SilverRail, presumably (or perhaps it's an NRE restriction, I have no idea).
And, maybe you wouldn't want to answer this publicly, but if you find the RDG specs to be wrong do you have much recourse? I mean in this example you'd be hard-pushed to argue lost revenue over not handing over a 120 minute connection time properly, but in other scenarios where NRE maybe gets things wrong or misleads Raileasy or passengers using the engines to buy tickets?
 

Adam Williams

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And, maybe you wouldn't want to answer this publicly, but if you find the RDG specs to be wrong do you have much recourse? I mean in this example you'd be hard-pushed to argue lost revenue over not handing over a 120 minute connection time properly, but in other scenarios where NRE maybe gets things wrong or misleads Raileasy or passengers using the engines to buy tickets?
Hahahaha
 

Ian Hardy

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18 Nov 2009
Messages
462
I suggest anyone who (rightly) feels the new disruption info system introduced by NRES is a massive downgrade of a previously useful and easily understood source of information for passengers, complains by email to :-

customer.relations@nationalrail.co.uk
I sent this to the National Rail email address above:
I wish to advise that the new NRES disruption info system recently introduced is a huge backward step in the provision of rail disruption information.

Previously the major disruptions were focused at the top of the list, where as on the new system it is pot luck where the major disruption information is in the list of incidents.

Please can the old system be brought back as the new system doesn’t provide the information in a useable format which is easy quick to assimilate.


This is the response I got, which doesn't answer my question:

Dear Ian,

Thanks for taking the time to email us. I was sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the disruption information displayed on our website, and I understand that you would like the previous layout to be reinstated.

I would like to advise you that I’ve forwarded your comments as feedback to our Customer Experience Team.

I would also like to advise you that the development of our website and app is a continuous process to improve customer experience, and as with all businesses, we take on board suggestions, comments, and objections as we review how we enhance and transform our products.

I would like to advise you that the disruption information has been bifurcated into three parts on our website (Disruptions, Status Updates and Engineering Works).

For disruption information, I would suggest that you use the link below:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/disruptions/

Furthermore, you can check the planned engineering works by clicking on the ‘Engineering Works’ tab on our website. I’ve included a link below for your reference:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/engineering-works/

Also, to check status updates bifurcated according to train companies, you can access the link shared below:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/train-operator-status/

If you would prefer an alternative option, I would recommend that you check a Train Operating Company's website to get the required information. I'm pleased to include a link below that you can use to visit any Train Operating Company’s website:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/find-a-train-company/

I trust this information clarifies the situation, and I appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to share your concerns with us.

Thanks again for contacting us, and I will be pleased to assist you if you have any further queries.

Kind regards,

Sarah Moitra
Customer Relations Team

customer.relations@nationalrail.co.uk
 

styles

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I sent this to the National Rail email address above:
I wish to advise that the new NRES disruption info system recently introduced is a huge backward step in the provision of rail disruption information.

Previously the major disruptions were focused at the top of the list, where as on the new system it is pot luck where the major disruption information is in the list of incidents.

Please can the old system be brought back as the new system doesn’t provide the information in a useable format which is easy quick to assimilate.


This is the response I got, which doesn't answer my question:

Dear Ian,

Thanks for taking the time to email us. I was sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the disruption information displayed on our website, and I understand that you would like the previous layout to be reinstated.

I would like to advise you that I’ve forwarded your comments as feedback to our Customer Experience Team.

I would also like to advise you that the development of our website and app is a continuous process to improve customer experience, and as with all businesses, we take on board suggestions, comments, and objections as we review how we enhance and transform our products.

I would like to advise you that the disruption information has been bifurcated into three parts on our website (Disruptions, Status Updates and Engineering Works).

For disruption information, I would suggest that you use the link below:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/disruptions/

Furthermore, you can check the planned engineering works by clicking on the ‘Engineering Works’ tab on our website. I’ve included a link below for your reference:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/engineering-works/

Also, to check status updates bifurcated according to train companies, you can access the link shared below:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/train-operator-status/

If you would prefer an alternative option, I would recommend that you check a Train Operating Company's website to get the required information. I'm pleased to include a link below that you can use to visit any Train Operating Company’s website:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/find-a-train-company/

I trust this information clarifies the situation, and I appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to share your concerns with us.

Thanks again for contacting us, and I will be pleased to assist you if you have any further queries.

Kind regards,

Sarah Moitra
Customer Relations Team


customer.relations@nationalrail.co.uk
That doesn't actually seem like a terribly unreasonable reply. This is a front line customer service staff member, presumably not part of the development team. In the email they've said they'll pass your feedback on to the relevant team and provided you with other options in the meantime. I'm not sure they could do too much more than this? Also with them being the official go-to source for such information rather than say a third party retailer who may only get a percent of the level of traffic the NRE website does, they are more likely to wait for a statistically significant amount of feedback to come in before changing things. I don't like the change, but I think that's close to the best email you could expect in response to be honest.
 

duffield

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I complained to them about the Booking.com integration. It's not so much that I mind having the option to also pop up hotel results; it's that it's checked by default.

Anyway, I didn't even get a reply, and clearly the checkbox is here to stay, still checked by default.

...
Not on my laptop it isn't! AI does have its uses, I got Gemini to iterate through a load of attempts until it finally came up with a script for the excellent "Tampermonkey" browser extension which completely erases the checkbox and its effects. The AI said they had used all sorts of trickery and obfuscation to stop you from removing the box, so none of the obvious ways worked but eventually it came up with a clever script that scans through the page to identify the relevant code, and although it's a fairly monster bit of code it doesn't cause any noticeable slowdown.
Thing is, I don't really use the National Rail journey planner much at all so this was rather pointless but I wanted it done just to be awkward!
 

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