Update on pay talks?

[RoyalMint]

I read recently that 'millions' of public sector workers would be receiving 'above inflationary' pay awards

Millions of UK public sector workers set for above-inflation pay rise

Rachel Reeves is expected to accept pay review body recommendations in move that could cost up to £10bn

www.theguardian.com

Has anyone heard about how this relates to public sector rail staff RE: 2024 pay award? (conscious there's ASLEF and RMT talks ongoing)

 

[KM1991]

I read recently that 'millions' of public sector workers would be receiving 'above inflationary' pay awards

Millions of UK public sector workers set for above-inflation pay rise

Rachel Reeves is expected to accept pay review body recommendations in move that could cost up to £10bn

www.theguardian.com

Has anyone heard about how this relates to public sector rail staff RE: 2024 pay award? (conscious there's ASLEF and RMT talks ongoing)

RMT members are still waiting for the 2023 pay award, when inflation was over 8%

Can’t see anything less than the 5.5% that is being offered to public sector workers for 2024 being acceptable to the RMT now though

ASLEFs goes back to 2022 I believe

 

[InOban]

AIUI the aslef dates vary by TOC. Some were on a multi-year RPI-limked deal which ended much more recently.

 

[muz379]

Lates as far as I understand it is that at the train oerating companies ASLEF and the RMT will be meeting this week with senior officials form the DFT to discuss a pay proposal , crucially this will no involve the RDG who will no longer have any involvement in pay talks .

And at Network rail reps at the RMT are to approach Network rail for an improved offer as well

This follows a meeting between the new Transport secretary and GS's of ASLEF and the RMT at whcih it was discussed that a no strings pay award is needed to break the deadlock in all these disputes and move forwards .

No doubt more will be known later this week when the unions update their members on the meetings that have taken place .

 

[scrapy]

ASLEF met the DFT last Tuesday and talks were described as positive on both sides. It is rumoured that a no strings across the board deal will be offered with the DFT agreeing that any productivity deals are to be negotiated separately with individual TOCs.

RMT are already negotiating separately with each TOC on productivity.

 

[dk1]

Lates as far as I understand it is that at the train oerating companies ASLEF and the RMT will be meeting this week with senior officials form the DFT to discuss a pay proposal , crucially this will no involve the RDG who will no longer have any involvement in pay talks .

Yes I heard RDG were told to exit the meeting last week and would no longer be involved any pay talks. Excellent news that.

 

[scouseyb123]

Yes I heard RDG were told to exit the meeting last week and would no longer be involved any pay talks. Excellent news that.

Absolutely agree. The RDG being involved was compromised by its negotiators all wanting the best for their respective company’s shareholders rather than what was the best approach that was suitable for all sides. This irrelevant and despised organisation needs to be ended in its entirety - now there’s an idea to save the Chancellor some money.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I thought that RDG had been limited to offering what the (previous) government had allowed them to do.
Given that the remaining ‘non publicly owned’ operators are on basically ‘fixed fee’ contracts I’m not clear how shareholder outcomes can be varied.

 

[HappyDriver99]

Rumours of 5% for 2022 and 4% for 2023? 2024 to be discussed at a later date?

 

[dk1]

Rumours of 5% for 2022 and 4% for 2023? 2024 to be discussed at a later date?

Most including me will be happy to accept that. No strings attached obviously.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

This irrelevant and despised organisation needs to be ended in its entirety - now there’s an idea to save the Chancellor some money.

I concur wholeheartedly mate.

 

[Tezza1978]

Rumours of 5% for 2022 and 4% for 2023? 2024 to be discussed at a later date?

I'm not someone who works in the industry but if that's the proposal that all sounds very reasonable and fair. No strings of course - leave any negotiations re rest day working/Sundays etc to individual TOC's with a view to harmonising them in the medium term for when GBR runs most of them

 

[matthewjohnson]

Funny how all these disputes seem to be coming to an end with a new government that wants to treat workers fairly and make their hard work pay isn't it!

 

[Clarence Yard]

Absolutely agree. The RDG being involved was compromised by its negotiators all wanting the best for their respective company’s shareholders rather than what was the best approach that was suitable for all sides. This irrelevant and despised organisation needs to be ended in its entirety - now there’s an idea to save the Chancellor some money.

RDG were only the middle men and were told beforehand these recent talks that their services were no longer required. This particular farce of the DfT operating through proxies has now been ended.

What the pay deal was had no bearing on any company’s shareholders - that all ended in 2020. The DfT pays the bills and calls the tune - the RDG DfT contract companies were obliged to do exactly what they were told (and still are today).

Funnily enough, if the companies had been able to strike a deal on their own, you only need look at what the non DfT operations have got in recent years, even with the ones who have the same shareholders as those running DfT contracts.

 

[KM1991]

4% for 2023 when inflation was over 8%, not sure how to feel.

What did other sectors get for their 2023 pay awards? For some perspective?

2024 has to be a minimum of 5.5% then - Which makes none of it really make any sense.

 

[winks]

2024 certainly doesn’t need to be 5.5% especially when inflation is at 2pc. Personally I feel the unions will have to forgoe and forget some of the inflationary pressures if it means getting a no-strings deal.

More likely (TOCS):

2022 - {Agreed} £1750 min. or 5%
2023 - {Guess } 5%
2024 - {Guess} 3%

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Expecting new strike dates imminently.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Why?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

2024 certainly doesn’t need to be 5.5% especially when inflation is at 2pc. Personally I feel the unions will have to forgoe and forget some of the inflationary pressures if it means getting a no-strings deal.

More likely (TOCS):

2022 - {Agreed} £1750 min. or 5%
2023 - {Guess } 5%
2024 - {Guess} 3%

My understanding is that they can/will only back pay for 2 tax years. So that 2022 would have to be some form of golden handshake to top up the 2 year deal for 23/24

 

[class ep-09]

Expecting new strike dates imminently.

By whom?

 

[KM1991]

2024 certainly doesn’t need to be 5.5% especially when inflation is at 2pc. Personally I feel the unions will have to forgoe and forget some of the inflationary pressures if it means getting a no-strings deal.

More likely (TOCS):

2022 - {Agreed} £1750 min. or 5%
2023 - {Guess } 5%
2024 - {Guess} 3%

Why not? MPs got far more than 3%, so has every other department the government is responsible for.

Railway staff should continue to let their wages be left behind? Not for me, to be honest.

 

[175001]

Expecting new strike dates imminently.

No we're not

 

[winks]

Why not? MPs got far more than 3%, so has every other department the government is responsible for.

Railway staff should continue to let their wages be left behind? Not for me, to be honest.

Unfortunately now railway staff are classified as public sector staff. Historically going back to 2000, railway pay has been far above other areas (well above) with very generous settlements. This has probably come to an end but more likely 2/3% going forward.

 

[KM1991]

Unfortunately now railway staff are classified as public sector staff. Historically going back to 2000, railway pay has been far above other areas (well above) with very generous settlements. This has probably come to an end but more likely 2/3% going forward.

I understand that when inflation is low. No issue with that.

But my opinion is that the unions, particularly the RMT (a lot of workers on close to the minimum wage), should not settle for even a single % less than we have seen the government dish out to other departments.

 

[Tractor2018]

Unfortunately now railway staff are classified as public sector staff. Historically going back to 2000, railway pay has been far above other areas (well above) with very generous settlements. This has probably come to an end but more likely 2/3% going forward.

Deluded and gullible.

Any time pay awards have exceeded RPI is due to employees giving up conditions.

 

[class ep-09]

Unfortunately now railway staff are classified as public sector staff. Historically going back to 2000, railway pay has been far above other areas (well above) with very generous settlements. This has probably come to an end but more likely 2/3% going forward.

Inflation matching settlements yes , but above inflation pay rises were linked to giving up to the T&C’s or increasing in productivity .

 

[Bantamzen]

I understand that when inflation is low. No issue with that.

But my opinion is that the unions, particularly the RMT (a lot of workers on close to the minimum wage), should not settle for even a single % less than we have seen the government dish out to other departments.

Be careful what you wish for, some previous settlements in the public sector have been considerably less than the 5% for 2022 & 4% for 2023 that was under negotiation with the rail unions & previous government.

 

[KM1991]

Be careful what you wish for, some previous settlements in the public sector have been considerably less than the 5% for 2022 & 4% for 2023 that was under negotiation with the rail unions & previous government.

Which is why I said not a single % less.

Inflation in 2023 was over 8%. I would vote no to a 4% pay rise for that year. I would now also not expect a pay award of less than 5.5% for 2024. Let’s see what happens!

 

[CyrusWuff]

February 2023 RPI (which is what counts for those with an April anniversary date) was 13.8%. Sadly the chances of getting anywhere near that are remote.

February 2024 was 4.5%, which there's a better chance of getting.

 

[DarloRich]

I would suggest looking at how the junior doctors offer was structured as guide to what might happen here.

Expecting new strike dates imminently.

Why do you say that? could you expand? Talks are on going and since the change of government ( and the return of mature adults) have been described as productive.

 

[scrapy]

Inflation matching settlements yes , but above inflation pay rises were linked to giving up to the T&C’s or increasing in productivity .

There have been a few times (around 2005 -2010) where many TOCs got RPI +1%, but certainly only a couple of times each. In general it's been less than RPI.

The exception is the odd time TOCs have tried to get clever offering multi year deals and got it wrong.